The greatest consumer cassette tape deck ever produced?*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Cowboy Kim, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. shstrang

    shstrang Forum Resident

    Tm Century/Century 21 used that a lot. I would've rather heard tape hiss and surface noise.

    No Noise didn't always work well.
     
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  2. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    Nak's NAAC circuit was both simple and brilliant. They used a unique playback head which featured specially split tracks on the playback head. This meant that in the normal width for each track, they had two tracks sitting side by side. An amplifier amplified the difference between the two-haves of the split-track, and this signal was then used to drive servo motor which adjusted the azimuth. When the azimuth was correct, the signal between the split-tracks nulled, and so the motor stopped adjusting the azimuth.
     
  3. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    A needle-drop (to cassette) of well mastered records sound better (in many cases, imo) than the cd release of the album.
     
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  4. Curiosity

    Curiosity Just A Boy

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'm enjoying my RS-B655, "taping" records and the odd cd for a decent walkman sounding great and an enjoyable pastime.
     
  5. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I would like to argue with you but I just can't....Some kind of force.....stoping me!
     
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  6. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    How dare you come on here being intelligent.
     
  7. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    And yet some members and NAKBASHERS keep saying, "What makes Nakamachis so great?"
    It is almost become a cult to bash Naks.

    I hate Naks....I hate Naks.....I hate Naks. Ahhhh!!
    Some of you need to sing a new tune.
     
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  8. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Only if the cassette deck is really top quality, and the tape used is very high end, and the cassette deck is in perfect working order, with proper alignment. Many machines are less than their best.
     
  9. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    How about this fact, I've owned several Nakamichi machines. I like them, they performed well, but were higher maintenance and not the best cassette machines I owned either. The Technics RS 676 hands down for me was (with real world Type I and Type II tape formulas) the best cassette deck I ever owned (and like all my tape machines, maintained to the highest level). My ear is trained. It is also respected. And I am not saying this to bash Nakamichi machines (and I like them a lot). But the Studer, the ReVox, the best Teac and Tascam models need proper respects.
     
  10. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    The special NAAC head and circuit worked only on the right channel of the cassette - the inner track of the two stereo tracks. The outer track left channel could be frayed or more damaged, and Nak just let that fall where it would as long as it got the azimuth most correct for the right channel.
     
  11. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    I am not a technical person but that just doesn't sound right. It would be bright on one channel and not as bright on the other. Customers would hear that immediately.


    This must piss you off. Let me explain. They are four different alignments for the playback head: Height, wrap, Azimuth, and Zenith. If this is not aligned properly not only will frequency response and phase be screwed up but the stereo image and the overall frequency response of the tape and cross talk. A service guy would align all four. The automatic alignment only needs to check for one channel. With Height alignment you are adjusting the movement of the head up and down. Azuimth is the movement if the head side to side. The system finds maximum treble by checking for phase. It only needs one channel to do this.
    I think it is the idea that if the phase if correct on one channel then you have maximum treble. I could be wrong. If the phase is correct in the left then it will be correct in the right. Not a tech guy. But the system works perfectly. The problem is the Nak decks that were great broke down too often.


    I have aligned the playback head of our Otari MX-80's (2 inch 32 track recorder) many times. These machines require a lot of attention. Constant servicing and adjustments. But it has no auto azimuth alignment.

    For example, in all cassette decks where bias and Dolby level is automatically set the test tones are not recorded on both channels. A 400 hz tone goes on the left channel for the bias. Now the bias is set in two seconds. Now the 15 khz Dolby Tone is recorded on the right.. It is all done is 5 seconds. Well, it was 5 seconds in the Dennon 3 head cassette deck. The computer takes the bias reading from the left channel and applies the setting to both channels. And it does the same with the Dolby level. It is not perfect but it works 95% effective. And yet tapes made on theses machines sound great. Being able to align both channels would be better.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  12. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    This is true. But doing this for more than one channel would have dramatically increased the complexity of the circuit. A simple servo would not have been possible with more than one track to diff.

    But what you are stating is the outlier case. Most of the time NAAC worked spectacularly well.
     
  13. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    The NAAC right channel head was split into half tracks itself. The NAAC matched the azimuth of those two halves of the right channel. The outer edge left channel was left to fend for itself, hopefully it aligned as the right channel aligned. I picked this info up somewhere over the years.
     
  14. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Could be. The Nad was better. A knob in the front that you adjusted for maximum treble. But it works well.
     
  15. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    I'm sorry to say this, but he is technically correct. However his scenario is a rare one. Most of the time NAAC worked brilliantly despite the fact that it only operated on one channel.

    Most cassette decks only allow for azimuth adjustments. Height, and Zenith are baked-into a given decks design and offer little or no adjustability on many machines. Most cassette machines utilized pressure pads which made zenith largely irrelevant in terms of tape contact with the head, since these force the tape to always be in contact with the head. Nak's superb closed-loop capstans are what allowed for them to be able to remove the pressure pad from the equation. [edited above to correct some errors].
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  16. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    No they are not irrelevant.
    My Nak 581 allowed for all adjustments via the front panel. But most casstte decks you can't. But a technician can.



    I work with analog multitracks where everthing is adjustable. Everytime we put in a new tape we align the playback head for maximum bass and treble for every song. Remember 98% of all analog masters are spliced together. Track one might have been mixed a month from track 2.
     
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  17. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Maybe I shouldn't be in this conversation. I am taking my work in the studio on analog 2 inch multitracks and quarter/ half inch half track machines and applying it to consumer cassette decks.

    Oh yea HEIGHT ALIGNEMENT is the only thing the auto system does in cassette decks. That only moves the head up and down. Ampex or was it 3M tired to come up with an auto playback alignment system for their 24 track machines. but for all alignments. Too expensive or not workable....
    The biggest problem is when you switched
    head stacks. For example, moving from a 2 inch 24 to a 2 inch 16 head stack.
     
    McLover likes this.
  18. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Always liked my Sony decks. Yamaha, otoh, were awful (poorest Dolby implementations I’ve heard even laughable).
     
  19. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    Did I say that zenith and height adjustments are irrelevant??? No, I said that these were baked-into the designs of many cassette decks. So these were as accurate as the factory tolerances for the head mountings. Most of the time this was sufficient for a cassette deck. Azimuth was always the critical factor which needed to be hand tuned on cassette decks.

    I have replaced a number of heads on R2R machines, and I am well aware of all of the adjustments which must be made to achieve optimal performance, and to achieve even head wear. But I was not speaking of R2Rs, I was ONLY speaking of cassette decks above.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  20. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Just picked up this deck last week. Fully serviced with some capacitors replaced.. My Dragon pictured below is getting ready to be shipped back to the tech to fix some issues that came up in the 1 year warranty period.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  21. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Geez.

    As NAAC used its two half heads of the cassette right channel to test and adjust azimuth, as that adjustment was made by NAAC the left cassette left channel head would also be adjusted equally as the whole head block was moved by NAAC. But NAAC tested, adjusted, operated, only on or from the right channel of the cassette. It adjusted both the left and right channel heads, equally, but based only on what it found from its two half heads of the right channel. Not a rare occurrence, it did this all the time on every playback. Of course it would work as well with a cassette recorded with a mono cassette head.

    Have I covered all 4 bases now, finally?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  22. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Sorry dude. Too strong of a word. I did say my professional work was getting me mixed up. Am I allowed to make a mistake? I never questioned your tech ability. I don't know anything about you so how could I? Any yet you seemed angry that I questioned your ability to know to change heads and make all 4 adjustments..How was I to know that you service cassette for a living or whatever. Not a mind reader.

    And other people will read the post.. so if I say a great deal goes into changing head stacks don't think that I am somehow taunting you with, (in a voice of little kid) "Ha ha! You don't know what is involved in changing a head stack. Ha ha!." Silly I agree but that is apparently how I came across to you.

    I was enjoying our posts. I was learning something. Even after 18 years still learning stuff. I was thinking BOY, THIS GUYS KNOWS HIS STUFF. Changing a head of a quarter inch reel to reel is not quite the same thing as swapping out 2 inch 24 head stack for a 2 inch 32 track one. But it is basicly the same thing. Same head adjusmetments, etc. Actually on an Otari MX-80 the head stack replacement is easier because they expect you to be frequently swapping them. I think from what you have told me that you could probably do the head stacks change on the MX-80 just as efficiently as I could.

    My only point was that some high end and pro decks like the Nak 581 and 582 do offer more than just one head adjustment. Also, Revox (consumer brand of Studer) had several models that offered more than just height and azimuth..
    But I wasn't arguing about it.

    I don't want to insult or offend anyone..I also don't want to feel like a pest. So I will sign off.
     
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  23. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Absolutely. My deck (Denon DRS-810) has only recorded and played back my tapes (Maxell XLIIS or TDK SAX). Not used much, but it is in my system.
    Got 2 cases of Maxell's unopened. Only record rare or well mastered vinyl. It's nice. Folks who hear it don't believe it's a cassette tape. No Dolby bs either...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  24. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    How else would you go about it anyway? The two stereo tracks are mounted on the same head on all decks ever made. So if one stereo track is correct azimuth, the other one must be as well, unless the head used during recording was wonky. In that case you can't win, because you can't azimuth correctly for both unless the magnet for each track could be tilted individually somehow, which would be overkill.

    PS and then there are mono recordings, did it work well on those?
     
  25. jusbe

    jusbe Modern Melomaniac

    Location:
    Auckland, NZ.
    Another ZX-7 lover. I certainly love mine, and am keen to find it a partner on the rack. I'm thinking a CR-7, if I can find the right one.
     
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