The Handmaid's Tale - Hulu

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Deesky, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

  2. Wingman

    Wingman Bored of the Rings

    Looks like the South 's gonna rise again.
    GentleSenator likes this.
  3. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Portland, OR
    what a silly finale. whoo-hoo here comes obi-fred june!

    next season better be all about bradley whitford.
    Rufus McDufus likes this.
  4. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    New York
    Regarding June's decision to stay...

    I accept the logic of how her mothering interest in Hannah might overcome her desire to flee for personal safety. But... going back to when she was first on and then dragged off the plane about to take her to Canada, she certainly was about to go at that point. So how does it make sense that she was on the plane then but would not get into the vehicle with Emily and the baby? At that point she in fact had MORE reason to go to Canada, that being that the baby was now alive, and by staying put June was separating herself from her.

    The only answer I can come up with is June now, unlike at the time of the escape by airplane, intends to become an active revolutionary. "Just" staying for Hannah is not enough given the precedent of the airplane scenario.
  5. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    June's rabble rousing has cost the people who listen to her. She gave love advice to Eden, and look what happened to her. She talked to Serena Joy about women reading, and she lost a finger. I'm sure there are other examples I can't think of right now.
  6. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Gig 'Em!

    One possibility - maybe her meeting with Hannah affected her? Maybe seeing that Hannah still knew who she was, still connected with her as her mother (after some initial resistance) made June realize she needed to help Hannah. If Hannah had rejected her or acted like she simply wasn't her mother, maybe June leaves and tries to help her in a different way, from Canada. But since there's still the connection from Hannah's side, she feels she can't leave without trying to help her?

    I dunno, just speculating. She may not have the same bond with Holly that she has with Hannah, either, so maybe it's easier to let Holly go with Emily.

    Also, telling Emily to call her Nicole was smart, I thought. If Emily does make it to freedom, and is able to get the baby's story in the news, it will directly relate her to the Waterford's and the power structure (and horror) in Gilead. If she is known as Holly though, the Waterfords won't even acknowledge (or may not know) that she's "their" baby.
    Deesky and fluffskul like this.
  7. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    The delivery driver hanged from the wall for helping her...
    Mylene likes this.
  8. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    Is there anything of strategic importance in south-central Missouri where the center of that Atomic Wasteland is?

    That does render Kansas City, St. Louis, Tulsa, Little Rock, and Memphis uninhabitable though.
  9. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Eh, what did you think was silly??
  10. Scotian

    Scotian Amnesia Hazed

    North of Gilead
    That last look on her face set the whole thing up for the next season as part of the Marvel universe, simply called "The Handmaid".
  11. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    New York
    The meeting with Hannah, and how that likely affected June, was a fair point to raise in response. But I am not sure it adequately explains it. For two reasons. First, when June is escaping on the plane, she had no reason to think that Hannah had forgotten her. There was no indication that June had given up on getting Hannah back at that point. Second and I would say of even greater significance is it remains to be seen exactly how staying will make it easier to get Hannah back. At the least if she escaped she could seek help, regroup and generally put together better resources for the effort.

    In that connection we as viewers were given NO indication what plan June might have in any respect at the close of season two. How would it be possible that she would have any such plan formulated in her head? Remember she was about to go ahead with the escape, and then surprisingly encountered Emily who she gave the baby to. If Emily was not there, what would June have done? It was a spur of the moment decision, which suggests June had no specific plan in mind to retrieve Hannah. As we go into season three I am confident that will be confirmed, and we will find June instead taking a more reactive approach, responding to opportunities as they present themselves, rather than pursuing a specific course of action from the beginning of the next season. Alternatively, and this I think is more plausible whether or not it occurs, an additional purpose that June could have had in staying was she will pursue more active involvement in the resistance. (Not that even THAT makes her staying wholly plausible, to be clear. )

    On the other side of the ledger as it were is the fact that she was pregnant during the plane escape, meaning she was bringing her fetus inside her with her. When she sends Nicole with Emily, the baby is now going to be apart from her for an indefinite period. Not the same bond is not the same as no bond.
    Aggie87 and misterdecibel like this.
  12. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I disagree. The most obvious plan is to go in cahoots with the marthas and the underground resistance movement which was instrumental in setting up her escape.
  13. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    New York
    Overall Season Two Evaluation

    I am not a huge fan of these sorts of episodic, extended narrative television productions, generally preferring films. Such an approach risks getting involved in unwieldy narratives, needless and pointless side plots, over extended character development, and other issues. But I have enjoyed some, including Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, and now this one (up to a point on this one). The quality of such productions depends I think primarily on the cast and the writing. Mad Men for me was the gold standard, since both the cast and writing were consistently excellent. I had some issues with certain cast members of BE, though, while the writing, not consistently excellent, was mostly so.

    The Handmaid's Tale has a mostly excellent cast and for season one the writing was mostly excellent as well. As for the cast, if anything it is more impressive in season two, especially thanks to Yvonne Strahovski, who has been superb, while Elisabeth Moss remains superb. But the writing in season two? It has become problematic.

    And I don't think issues with the writing are arising from lack of effort or anything like it. I think the structure of the overall story is creating the problems, meaning to some extent they are inevitable. Handmaid is essentially a story centered on one person's experience of the issues (to put it mildly) that such a dystopia as Gilead presents. But these issues and how they affect June are really not the sort that require extended examination to lay them out and explain them, show them. We pretty much understood what they are early on, coupling the disintegration and separation of June's family with the ritual rape that is the Ceremony. The show then went on to show Gilead's perversity in extended examples, and with flashbacks how it came to be. But season two has been more about Serena's character's arc, and related to that the dynamic between June and Serena.

    The central core of the story, though, is still June's, and hence we have been presented with repetitive ways of showing that. Escapes followed by returns to the Waterford house. Temporary cast members come and go with side plots, some to good effect, others not so good. And the dynamic between June and Serena, while mostly interesting, also at times took on a two steps forward two steps back kind of formula during season two.

    This leaves Serena's character as the most interesting part of season two, and the writers and producers have been extremely lucky to have cast Ms. Strahovski in the role, as she has done all I think possible to meet the challenge. But... there has been increasingly clear a basic problem with this reliance on Serena's character. Part of it is that the character's arc of development has been written to take a similar two steps forward, and then is it one or two? steps back approach. That in turn leads viewers to question who Serena really is, however well the part has been acted. Perhaps even more troubling is the whole issue of CARING about Serena. I am aware that Strahovski has stated in interviews that she is trying to give depth to Serena, showing complexity. But that tends to make her more sympathetic, as compared to a portrayal of all evil. And do we really want to be sympathetic toward Serena, or perhaps more accurately does it make any sense to be sympathetic to such a person?

    I don't see how the writers get out of the problem presented by an overreliance on Serena's character's development. and the problem is what for me has created the most issues with season two even if one gets past the torture porn issue, the plausibility of certain plot turns, the repetitiveness of June's experiences, less than compelling side plots, and whatever other issues you might have.

    I suspect the writers may try and get around this in season two by transforming the approach from one more on the interiority of the central character of June, now extended into Serena's, to a more action oriented presentation, meaning one focusing more on the decline of Gilead. Whether that serves to make the show compelling in season three remains to be seen.
  14. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    New York
    That MIGHT be her plan, but it also might be a plan to get Hannah back.

    Plus it is difficult to talk about such a plan as a plan at all when the decision was so sudden.

    Having said that, I think we are in agreement that season three will most plausibly be about June's involvement in undermining and revolting against Gilead. I am not sure as I said above that such an approach will work, though.
    prognastycator likes this.
  15. This, plus she now has more appreciation for the danger that awaits Hannah if she stays in Gilead (or Gilead is allowed to endure) -she was impacted by the damage done to Serena.
    mds and Hardy Melville like this.
  16. She is a catalyst....the story continues to make this point. Hopefully a catalyst for the destruction of Gilead.
  17. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    She ended up making the same sacrifice she asked of Serena Joy.

    It would strain credulity for her to be accepted back into the Handmaids, or back with the Waterfords.
  18. Was this map shown in the series? The book had stated that the Smoky Mountains was a center of continued rebellion against Gilead.
  19. I agree. They can't go there again.
    Hardy Melville likes this.
  20. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Portland, OR
    others spelled it out better than i can after you posed the question, so i'll defer to them.

    beyond that: the absolute very end was so on the nose it made me laugh out loud. they really need to stop with the pop music endings.
  21. dprokopy

    dprokopy Forum Resident

    Near Seattle, WA
    I think it was for Hannah - I think she made that decision when she was showing the picture to the baby. If I'm not mistaken, she first said something like "I hope you get to meet her," and then changed it to "You WILL get to meet her."

    I also don't think she plans on going back to the Waterfords. I get the feeling next season will find her "on the run" within Gilead itself, figuring out a way to rescue Hannah and escape.
  22. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident Thread Starter

    But the two plans arem't mutually exclusive. In fact, the only real way to get Hannah back is to ally oneself with an existing underground movement that has proven to have at least some degree of agency.

    The plan doesn't need to be fully fleshed out. While the decision did seem sudden, I'm sure all the events that lead to it would have been swirling around in June's subconscious mind until the point of no return (her getting in the vehicle) crystallized her decision.
    Gems-A-Bems likes this.
  23. fluffskul

    fluffskul Forum Resident

    albany, ny
    i was wondering the same thing, what's the source of this map? i don't recall it from the series.
  24. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    It was apparently on display at a public viewing of the finale in LA. It matches a map that was briefly seen on Waterford's desk around the time he noticed the emergency lights outside.
    fluffskul likes this.
  25. Leviethan

    Leviethan Forum Resident

    Portland, OR
    This map makes no sense. Glad to see the west coast as rebel held territory, but how in the world could Gilead sustain with no access to the entire west coast and with almost the entire northern and southeastern borders cut off?
    GentleSenator likes this.

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