The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    I remember him vividly but not his characters name, was he captain Motty or perhaps admiral Ozell?
     
  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Lol
    I filmed an ocean fishing trip once lol

    The Fishermen gave me some Samson fish steaks ... they were very good :)
     
  3. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    I don’t think the traveller is/was a real estate agent and I don’t think the punks are going to be picked up by a roller. Interpreting this movie literally is much like interpreting I Am The Walrus. Powerful psychedelics could be helpful.:winkgrin:
     
  4. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Admiral Piett
     
  5. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Bingo!
     
  6. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Sold Me Out

    This has grown on me since i first wrote about it and the scene with it in the film seems one of the more literally easy to read between fact and fantasy.

    Q. Is the travellers an estate agent or do we just get a simplified own sale to the Arab?
    I don't know who Tim Roth is or what he went on to do but ironically he could pass as a very new green estate agent before being advised good naturedly by a senior colleague on a more mature dress sense to enable climbing the ladder of success.

    The songs energy, protestations to those classes more well off and the not so subtle requests for money echo Father Christmas.

    The lyric "Can't decide 'cause there's no decision" reminds me of the thinking head bubbles on the rear jacket of Give The People What They Want.

    The discogs soundtrack CD prices provided by Avid @Michael Streett ensure at least one thing that won't be selling out!
     
  7. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    There's a Lemon remake?
     
    mark winstanley and DISKOJOE like this.
  8. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Traveller attacking what they "represent and it's threat (Not so much physically) to himself.
     
  9. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Re: Trains
    I thought they were surely kidding me in Zurich in 2007 by stating that when you sat on the bog that's what was left to the tracks.
    Were they pulling the other one?
     
  10. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Whether or not we understand what's going on, a good thing about this movie is that it allows us to go back in time and ride on a British Rail train in the 80s. Sometimes the journeys weren't any less weird than what's going on here!

    I've used the term "punks" to describe the new passengers, but it actually looks like one ted, one skinhead and one goth. A gang of misfits if ever there was one!

    "Sold Me Out" makes more sense in this context than it does on Word of Mouth, the lyrics being the thoughts of the misfit gang rather than an actual rant against the system from Ray Davies, which is what it comes across as on WOM. What's going on with the mannequins and the dodgy deal with the sheikhs? I don't know, but I'd suggest that the deal is something the traveller wishes he had done rather than actually has done, which would enable him to smash the system (the mannequins) and get away. Likewise he probably wishes he was the rapist, but actually he's just an ordinary guy who gets on the train to go to his anonymous job, and invents all sorts of exploits in his head to occupy him during the journey.
     
  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    That's interesting too... We keep saying punks, but of course "punk kid" was a terminology being used long before The Ramones or the Sex Pistols...
    and here, like you say, we have three generations of rebellious youth, but at the end of the train ride they all sell out for the flash car?

    The journey of life, where we get on and off the train to go to different stations, at different points in time...
    Time doesn't seem constant or even perhaps relevant in this movie, as it seems to be set up cyclically.
     
  12. stewedandkeefed

    stewedandkeefed Came Ashore In The Dead Of The Night

    This last week, I listened to a handful of Kinks shows from the era we have covered in the last few weeks.

    Tokyo, Japan 1982-02-27 - a very rare trip to Japan and an FM broadcast. A typical Kinks show from the era with the main focus on the hit album Give The People What They Want. This is also the first show I heard where "Stop Your Sobbing" and "David Watts" are played one after the other. At this show, Ray's improvised song from the night before has been developed a bit and is known simply as "Tokyo".

    Essen, West Germany 1982-04-03 - part of Rockpalast. The Kinks shared the bill with Van Morrison among others. FM and video is available. A good show I have been familiar with since shortly after it happened. Fairly typical setlist but "Dead End Street" makes an appearance and "Stop Your Sobbing"/"David Watts" are the final encore and are introduced by Ray as two songs covered recently though he coyly neglects to mention either band he is referring to in his intro.

    Devore CA 1982-09-04 - really good audience tape of the Kinks at the first US Festival. A really revved-up rocking set and one big surprise to me (first time listening to this recording). Ray introduces a song from being from the next Kinks record but the song is "Entertainment" which would not be released until UK Jive.

    Los Angeles CA 1983-04-25 - another Mike Millard audience recording but this one is at the LA Forum (a much larger venue than previous Kinks shows Millard recorded and indicative of the increase in their popularity. During the opening song "Around The Dial". Ray stops the song and shouts "This stops now" at audience members presumably misbehaving. This show (actually the circulating recording is only the main set and is missing the encores) is the first I heard with "Definite Maybe", "State Of Confusion" and "Come Dancing".

    New York NY 1983-09-12 - a very nice (close!) audience tape of a great Kinks show. This one begins with "Do It Again" and has an interesting setlist. Both "Better Things" and "Don't Forget To Dance" are featured early in the show. Then after hits new and old ("Come Dancing" and "A Well Respected Man"), Ray announces a song from a film he just did and they play "Return To Waterloo" which was definitely unreleased in any form at this stage. A little later, Ray introduces "Missing Persons" by referencing milk cartons in the US that feature pictures of missing children. Another surprise is a very rare performance of "Brother" before the song "Guilty". The remainder of the show focuses a bit more on well-known material but both "Living On A Thin Line" and "Art Lover" are in the encores which I do not think was typical. I really enjoyed this show.
     
  13. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    I’m not as up to speed on the live shows and such so it’s fun to read more on this subject. It’s interesting the live shows even at this early 80s point are still a little more loose and not as rigid in terms of set lists and song orders.
    Good info here. Thanks for sharing!
     
  14. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    ‘Oh! Oh! Oh! Tokyo!’

    I hate that pidgin English crap.
     
  15. rfs

    rfs Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lansing, MI USA
    Mint cassettes are dirt cheap for discogs. I bought one (sorry I'm so far behind).
     
  16. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Seeing as it’s Sunday, maybe we should do a mini discussion on ‘Tokyo’ as posted by @Zeki today? I know it’s a live improv, and we’re a couple of years out from when it appeared in the timeline in 1982, but better late than never (and thanks to @stewedandkeefed for reminding me that it existed!). Note the lyrical connection to ‘Long Distance’ re: the roadie namedrops.


    Tokyo
    Written by: Ray Davies
    Published by: ?

    Lyrics:

    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.

    I went down to Australia,
    With my rock 'n' roll band.
    It's very hot in Australia,
    Still I'm gonna do the best I can.
    Still I'm going to Tokyo,
    Somehow I've gotta go.

    I've gotta go to oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.

    When I get to Tokyo,
    I'm gonna see my girlfriend.
    She gonna hold me so tight,
    She gonna be my friend.
    And when we have an argument,
    She gonna tell me where to go.

    "Why don't you get out and go to oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo"
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.

    I went to sushi bar,
    I saw pretty Tokyo girl.
    I had lots of sake, sake, sake,
    Make me feel drunk, feel good.
    I went for a drink with Road Hog and Romeo,

    In oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.

    Pretty soon,
    I'm gonna fly away.
    Me and my girlfriend,
    We gonna come back some day.
    When I fly back to England,
    I'll think of all the people I know,

    Way back in oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
    Oh, oh, oh, oh, Tokyo.
     
  17. Brian x

    Brian x half-animate bean

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Headmaster, this is my confession....

    Visiting in-laws & haven't had the chance to watch RtW. Great thoughts about the film here though, so when I do watch I'll be prepared.
     
  18. stewedandkeefed

    stewedandkeefed Came Ashore In The Dead Of The Night

    It stuck out to me when I listened to the show and not just because it is a unique onstage improvisation but also because it has an emotional purity to it which I think mostly comes from Ray's vocal which at times sounds almost mournful to me. The chords are simple with no variety but they are accessible to the ear. The chorus is great - simple but great. Loads of variations in various cities over the years ("New York City Blues") but this one stands out to me. Also speaks to the Kinks as a performing outfit - they never phoned it in.
     
  19. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Kinda tied up at the moment folks...
    Tokyo, Soho or Hobo's
    Take it where you like :)
     
  20. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    "Tokyo" is kind of addictive - it sounds very Kinks and sounds like they were having fun doing it!
     
  21. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    “Tokyo”: Not bad for a song written on the fly. Probably needs more polishing, but it has a great hook. Too bad his relationship w/Chrisse ended. It could have been a highlight on a future Kinks album.
     
  22. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    I had a chance to watch RtW again- it’s about as long as an album, so why not, I would give an album several listens before passing judgement. At this point I’m realizing that it’s worthy of attention as a film in its own right, whereas initially I treated it more as a curiosity, as just a long music video of Ray Davies songs. But in fact, in its execution, the focus is locked in on the telling of the Traveller’s complex story; and the music, while often in the forefront, is always serving that story. After this latest watch I have another interpretation, but I’ll save that until we are done - the story is quite the challenge to pin down, and I’ve enjoyed puzzling over it. It’s no John Wayne flic, that’s for sure!

    Fun fact: we only hear sound from the Traveller’s mouth on two occasions - and both times he is screaming in rage! :D
     
  23. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    I watched the film again for the first time in over 20 years last Sunday and I’ve been watching it again in segments each day as we go through the songs (interesting way to watch and interpret a movie actually, not sure I’ve ever done this before). Watched the whole thing again today and will do the remaining segments individually with each song again this week as well.

    I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s interpretations thus far and pointing things out that I missed or didn’t even consider before. That’s one of the fun things about this, same as analyzing an album or a song. Unless Ray states unequivocally that “this means that” or “that is not what I had in mind”, it’s irrelevant whether I agree with anyone else’s opinions, thoughts, or interpretations of it. Every interpretation is valid.

    It seems the “Missing Persons” segment in particular has struck a chord somewhere in your minds and whether it’s major, minor, augmented, or diminished, I think that’s exactly what Ray was going for here and he would be simultaneously amused, bemused, and satisfied with a wry smile on his face at the same time were he reading things here.

    At first, I felt the mannequin head smashing scene and the Dear Abby stuff coming up were the weakest spots in the film but reading everyone’s thoughts has me rethinking this and I may yet come around.

    As you all may imagine, my focus is always the music, songs, and albums first and foremost as it probably is for all of us here really. Return To Waterloo is the one project in their catalog that challenges that edict, so I’m still evaluating both the album and the film as we discuss it. Does one medium, album or film, stand by itself separate from the other? Does one of these mediums work without the other but the other fails? Do both succeed or do both fail?

    Still thinking through all of this myself, so looking forward to more of your thoughts and analysis.

    One thing is for sure as we leave the previously released songs that appeared on Word Of Mouth behind, and that is we are not far away from moving on to the rest of the new songs for this project and there is some damn strong material and performances coming up. Does the film live up to the songs? We shall see! For those new to these songs, if this raises your expectations, I suspect they will be met. Just a guess, and again, we shall see.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
  24. pablo fanques

    pablo fanques Somebody's Bad Handwroter

    Location:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    I forget when I first saw The Kinks but it had to have been the late 80's. The great thing about seeing them live was you NEVER got the same show twice. You could and still can set your clock by what The Stones, McCartney, or The Who were performing but The Kinks were always mixing it up. At some point Village Green started to become a critical darling and they went from not doing anything from it to rolling out 6 or 7 tunes at some shows. I miss them dearly
     
  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Ok... it's 2am, I'm toasted, I am not going to be up in an hour and a half, so here we go

    For my American Friends, happy 4th of July, Independence Day

    Lonely Hearts.

    Ooh, darlin', what can I do? I feel so afraid
    And even my friends don't know, what to say
    That's why I'm asking you

    I'm so afraid, I know I should be strong
    But when affection is gone it's hard to face each day
    Knowin' love has drifted away

    Somehow I can't hide the pain
    Is he gonna come back again?

    Dear Lonely Hearts
    I wish things could be the way that they were at the start
    But you must face the facts if he's goin' to leave
    There's no way that you'll win him back

    You gotta try to hold back the tears
    Don't give into your fears

    Darlin', I'm so afraid, I can get through the night
    But when affection is gone it's hard to face each day
    Oh, will he please come home?

    Dear Lonely Heart, dear Lonely Heart, dear Lonely Heart
    I wish things could be the way that they were at the start
    But you must face the fact if he's goin' to leave
    There's no way that you'll win him back, yeah, yeah, yeah

    Dear Lonely Heart, dear Lonely Heart, dear Lonely Heart

    Darlin', I'm so afraid, I can get through the night
    But I can't face the day knowin' you are far away
    Oh, will you please come home?

    Writer Ray Davies
    Published by Davray

    This starts on the video at 35:35

    Musically we open with a lovely 50's/60's style guitar arpeggio, and Ray giving us a very sweet vocal delivery.

    To some degree the lyrics here are quite straightforward, with one reservation, I'm not sure if he is singing as the wife, or to the daughter, and it hinges on how we interpret who he is in the lyric...
    Is he going to come back
    If he's going to leave
    If he's going to leave
    There's No Way that You'll Win Him Back
    Will He Please Come Home

    The idea being put forward is someone has lost affection for someone else, and the other person is obviously sad about it.
    You need to rise up against the sorrow and get on with it, because dwelling on the hope for a return to what was is a demeaning task.

    The reason I find the context hard to pinpoint is the
    Darlin', I'm so afraid, I can get through the night
    But I can't face the day knowin' you are far away
    Oh, will you please come home?
    If he's singing to the daughter it does make some sense in that regard... Look the guy you left home for isn't coming back, he's had his joy ride, now come home because we miss you.
    Even if he's singing as the wife it makes sense to some degree.

    The lyrics are sweet, but there isn't much to them, but in the context of what is happening, not that much is required from the lyrics except to paint the picture of what's happening.

    I like the chord progression, It stays in 50's 60's chord territory, and we get this excellent use of a minor chord that slips a sort of modulation in there that really makes the melody pop.

    The styling of the song works really well, and although it isn't any crazy new thing, it is a well written and arranged track that manages to get me involved.

    The video context here probably adds a few layers to the song.

    Our guy is on the train, and after watching all the residential houses roll by the song starts.
    We open with a flash back to husband and wife at the breakfast table, and hubby gives her and obligatory goodbye kiss, but it is a kind of empty gesture, there's nothing in it..... and she knows it... we see her with a smoke and she looks somewhat uncomfortable... slightly agitated.

    We flash to a newspaper and it highlights Claire Raynor... some kind of Dear Abby? and the title, "wonderful husband can't be a father"...
    I think we've see this next scene before as he leaves the house and then we see her in the window looking out forlorn and he sort of looks back but just walk away... I think this was the same scene from earlier, but with a different camera perspective.

    Here we get a sort of odd transition.
    The music stops, and it's really early in the song. At first I thought they must have just used a snippet, but this is a sort of version of the song that Ray has expounded on with the film aspect.
    We see the train flying by, then it squeals to a halt and we get the voiceover of the station announcer.

    A gentle piano plays, and our guy gets off the train and walks to a payphone, remember those?
    He calls home, but oddly doesn't speak.
    Then we get this odd bit where the wife says "hello' a couple of times and then a big "hello" comes via the station announcer, and the announcer goes off the rails talking about the things that have been going on. essentially she announces that things were good but a while ago their daughter left home and things changed, and now for some time she is sure her husband has been seeing another woman.
    We go back to the shot of Claire Raynor and the station announcer says
    Somehow I can't hide the pain
    Is he gonna come back again?
    Which is of course a lyric to the song. At this point the song kicks back in with ay coming in on the Dear Lonely Hearts section.
    We see the wife looking sad and lost, and lonely, and then switch back to our guy getting back on the train. As he does so, he sees a woman and her daughter with a pram, and a sheepish looks comes across his face.....
    We see him back in his train seat, and the woman with the pram comes back into view, and this is obviously tweaking his conscience...
    All this really comes down to the fact that we know when we are doing something wrong, but something about our internal rationalisation system reroutes the wires, in an act of self preservation.... well until the wires natural fall back to the correct route and we are left with the shame and guilt of knowing we knowingly did the wrong thing... we are complex, very clever and very stupid creatures lol

    Then we see a video of Claire Raynor and it seems as though the wife may be talking to her.
    Claire starts speaking the lyrics , somewhat with Ray singing them.
    It's sort of a shame actually 'cause Ray throws in a really nice vocal here.

    The wife is sitting on the floor with some magazines, and the husband has gotten off the train.
    she sits on the floor crying and he hooks up with some other woman......

    the song ends.

    We stroll past a series of intercontinental pay phones..... and we move back to the homes fl;ying past the train window.... I guess somewhat showing the facade of homes looking normal, when we don't know what's going on inside them.....

    He is back on the train.
    The kids are still being obnoxious and problematic.
    The conductor asks one of them if they can't see the no smoking sign, and the kid says he can't read. A couple of older men talk about how rude young people are lol

    I actually really like this track particularly in the context of the movie.

     

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