Soothe Sayer For a minute there I was waving my arms in the air thinking Dave had invented Elbow. But Soothe Sayer stays in the same groove and doesn't really take off. It's not bad for a demo though. What might have been, with a bit more work? As for the entire album, I think it's important to give allowance for the fact that the songs were recorded as demos and won't sound close to a "finished" product. I've been reminded of this listening to demos from the latest Bowie set - Divine Symmetry, which charts the year leading up to the release of Hunky Dory. Some of the demos and live recordings are very rough and not destined for repeat playing.
"Soothe Sayer" (shouldn't it be "Soothsayer"?) loses me after a couple of minutes - it just doesn't go anywhere. As for this set of demos - the best songs end up on the next album anyway, and the rest probably don't merit too much investigation. I think it's important to have some Dave in your collection - I have the three 80s albums plus "Bug" - but I don't think it's necessary to have everything, and this is one that I would pass on.
I caught the flu, and spent 2 days in bed and the rest crawling around with massive headaches. Not a good time to open one's soul to Dave music, especially in demo form. Most of these songs are not bad, but I would bring the whole down to a single Fortis Green/Soothe Sayer. Maybe I'll revisit this on a better day. Fortis Green is a great song, and I like both demo and album versions. If I'm to listen to the song in isolation, I will choose the demo. Which is, of course, inserted at the end of my version of Storyteller. The album version sounds great on, well, the album. Speaking of Storyteller, I have tried to listen to the Dave equivalent yesterday, which I think we are going to hit on Monday, am I right ? I'm a huge fan of Dave, Dave the songwriter and the guitar arranger, and for this reason I'm always for spending enough time on his work. For the same reason, I would advise not to spend too much time on that performance... But then maybe my state is to blame for this frame of mind...
Soothe Sayer I don't mind Dave singing from under a blanket and quite enjoy the musical backing when it's at it's most sparse and absolutely without those Key or Synth notes that intrude later on in the piece to disturb it! How many times though have we heard Dave advising all and sundry to open up (or look into) their heart? Moving forward it really should be banned unless he frocks up for the ministry or collects for charity! Look it's ok even if i appear a Nay-Sayer!
Soothe Sayer "You're a... soothe sayer dream maker, love taker don't you mess around with me" Oh wait, that's not this song. I'd rather listen to that song! Sounds like Dave is stuck in the mid 1980s. But at least this one feels more finished. That's about all I can say about it. It doesn't really hold my interest, and likely won't be going back to this. Fortis Green Going through these demos, you really have to have some sympathy for Dave as an artist. He found some real magic between 1967 and 1970, then it seems really struggled to find it again, but he kept on trying, and sharing what he's tried with the world, warts and all. I respect the heck out of Dave for that. I am incredibly glad I was able to see Dave live about 4 years ago. He is now living in North Jersey, as I see him tweet about some local businesses, and a recent complaint about being disrespected at a local Starbucks. But I don't think he has any plans to do any more shows that I am aware of. Ray, I think I've mentioned before, I had tickets to see him in Montclair NJ back in 2010, but he had to cancel that show due to health reasons. Never got another chance to see him. Seems like the concert days are over now.
Re; Starbucks, I was very close to replying to Dave's tweet about that with a pun on 'Starstruck', but I ultimately refrained, probably for the best. Re: live shows. I know I moan constantly here about never having seen The Kinks live, but I guess I should be grateful that I got to see Ray 5 times, Mick thrice, and Dave even just that once. There will be new Kinks fans getting into them now and in years to come who will be cursing the sky that they were born too late to have even seen any of the members live in any form. Mick btw is still going strong with The Kast Off Kinks, well into his 6th decade as live drummer: I see looking on Dave Emlems website they have a healthy itinerary of 2023 UK dates lined up. I still get unreasonably annoyed at the poster on this forum who long ago when pooh poohing the idea of a Kinks reunion on one of the many times it's been discussed here, mentioned entirely incorrectly (I guess he figured it was a likelihood worth gambling a guess on rather than doing 2 minutes research) that 'Mick is retired': just seems such a thoughtless insult to the years (nearly 4 decades) of humble, egoless post Kinks gigging Avory has done for the fans when he could have been taking it easy on the golf course. The Kast Offs have taken a real pounding in terms of membership of late, with the passings of Jim Rodford and Ian Gibbons, as well as John's Dalton and Goslings (actual, not spuriously assumed!) retirements reducing their genuine ex Kinks membership to Mick and Mark Haley, who has stepped in on keys, but as long as Mick still performs with them they will remain a significant factor in Kinkdom, especially as it appears ( barring a miracle) that they are the last outpost of Kinks Members Still Treading The Boards. God bless ya, Mr Avory.
Thought I'd add this here since I just watched it and this is a Dave focussed week: A recent (2 weeks ago) podcast interview with Dave conducted by comedian Josh Meyers. It's ostensibly about the 'Something Else' album but Mr Meyers, being only a recent Kinks convert (apparently Marc Maron turned him on!) I have to say doesn't ask the best questions with regards to the record and/or Dave can't remember too much about the recording of it: it's seems he has more specific memories of VGPS and Arthur, not to mention the Arista stuff that he's at pains to mention near the end of the interview. A shame cos SE is a period I'd like to know more about but this doesn't really tell us anything new with regards to the album itself. Still always cool to see a new Dave interview, as well as get a second hand buzz off someone enthusiastically discovering the back catalogue for the first time.
Hope you feel better soon, it's a particularly nasty one this year, it knocked me on my ass. We have Unfinished Business on Monday, which although being a compile has some unreleased stuff on it. Then we hit the solo show/Storyteller ala Dave album. Then we hit Live At The Bottom Line. Saturday - Big Country - Somebody Else and Devil In The Eye Monday Dec 12th - Dave - Unfinished Business Tuesday - Unfinished Business Wednesday - I'll Get Over - Love Gets You Thursday - When The Wind Blows - Climb Your Wall Friday - This Man He Weeps Tonight - Hold My Hand - Susannah's Still Alive - Death Of A Clown Saturday - Solo Live/Marian College pt1 Monday Dec 19th - Solo Live/Marian College pt2 Tuesday - Solo Live/Marian College pt3 Wednesday - Dave Rock Bottom Live At The Bottom Line I Need You - She's Got Everything - Beautiful Delilah - Creeping Jean - Look Through Any Doorway - Love Me Til The Sun Shines - Tired Of Waiting Thursday - Milk Cow Blues - Imaginations Real - Wicked Annabella - Picture Book - Death Of A Clown - Too Much On My Mind - Strangers - Psycho Lounge Friday - One Night With You - Living on a Thin Line - All Day And All Of The Night - Money - David Watts - I'm Not Like Everybody Else - You Really Got Me Saturday - Ray Party At The Palace Dvd - Lola - Ray With Bon Jovi Celluloid Heroes Monday Dec 26th - Dave Davies Bug We will be on the Dave Solo Live/Storyteller album three days, mainly for Dave's personal variation on the Storyteller theme.... Essentially it starts off terribly, in my opinion, but once Dave puts his electric down, it gets better. I think it draws an important picture of the contrast of who Dave is in comparison to Ray. The Live At The Bottom Line/Rock Bottom album really redeems any issues with the solo show though, it is excellent. ------------------------------------------ I know for some of you guys, this section of the thread is a little bit of a grind, because it is so Dave heavy, but I think many will be pleasantly surprised by Rock Bottom/Live At The Bottom Line. Everyone tells me Bug is good, and by tomorrow I should be starting my journey through that one, and I'm looking forward to it. After Bug things will settle down a little and Ray starts to have material to break thing up a bit more. So I hope everyone can hold out and stay on the ride.
Soothe Sayer here on Fortis Green is the same version and mix that appeared on the Purusha album the year before, except it fades a few seconds earlier here on FG which should please the nay sayers and no wayers (leave it to the soothsayer @All Down The Line himself to beat me to the pun ). Not a fan of Dave’s high strain vocals which he does a lot. Too often. Dave, it’s OK to sing in lower registers or to drop the key down to a more comfortable range. Fortis Green the album works a little better than the other demo albums since everything was recorded at the same time as I’ve mentioned several times. Still it’s demos so it’s not really an album and it does trail off a bit after the title demo. The other demo albums have a wide range of recording dates, so it’s easier to add whatever couple of songs to the appropriate true studio album of the demo’s era for those instead of listening to those as albums in one listen. Easier to digest and appreciate demos one or two at the time during those listens as opposed to a whole album of demos. What I usually do here is take the demos on this album (minus Sooth Sayer which is already on Purusha as mentioned) and combine with the new studio recording Unfinished Business and the new acoustic recordings and a couple of more demos that appeared on these upcoming compilations we will see next week and that makes it more of an “album” and a better listen for me. Listened to Bug last night for the first time in several years and really enjoyed it. Dave benefits big time with a band behind him and I agree with the two Marks that the Bottom Line album is very good and worthwhile.
Along with DD, I believe love is the answer. I believe humanity must learn to govern ourselves peacefully and responsibly, and that capitalism and current governing institutions impede that. But "Soothe Sayer" (& yes, @ARL , it should be Soothsayer) doesn't further those laudable goals. It makes rebellion against the current arrangement of things and faith in a better future feel naive and shopworn. It is "transcendental moonshine." A single song like Days or, yes, Strangers does more for humanity's ultimate evolution than a thousand tracks like this. A plus for sentiment, but the execution is lacking.
Although of course, without capitalism it's unlikely we'd have these albums, or the devices were using to communicate on here...
Thanks Mark ! And I hope everybody's surgeries went on fine. (thanks Diskojoe) 3 days for the Solo record seems reasonable The live record sounds really good indeed.
I was at the concert Dave gave in Macclesfield (a bizarre stop on the tour surely) which was only three miles from home for me. I swear you could hear the sound-check from at least half-a-mile away. It was a stunning concert, a great setlist. I was at the front, there were very disappointingly less than 100 in the venue. I saw no flying knickers.
Fortis Green Bug track for later. Ray of course deemed it good enough ('Bug' version) to be part of the 2012 double CD compilation by 'The Kinks and Ray Davies The Kinks & Ray Davies - Waterloo Sunset - The Very Best Of The Kinks & Ray Davies , where the second disc is songs about London (to capitalise on Ray's appearance at the London Olympics). The CD was a reasonable chart success, so Dave's 'Fortis Green' probably reached its biggest audience there. Love In The World I must not have listened to this CD for years. Actually I quite like this, the synth sounds are good and there's a nice idea here to be worked up properly. Maybe as a duet with a female singer? Listen To The Spirit Again, good enough to do some more work on. Dave is singing pleasantly, despite the recording shortcomings. 'Into the Great Wide Open'? 'Two Gunslingers'? Yeah, I hear the Tom Petty/Jeff Lynne sound seeping in here and there. Even a hint of George Harrison's Indian inspired guitar noodlings. I'd take this (and the previous song) in place of the 'de-bugged' section of 'Bug'. Soothe Sayer As per 'Perusha And The Spiritual Planet' It works better here with other 'songs'.
I want my copy for Christmas! Great setlist! I didn't see Dave's UFOs this way but now I understand better.
That's ok as then Dave would release his albums as telepathic downloads despite that medium being alien to most!
Big Country - Somebody Else. Driving to Damascus Studio album by Big Country Released 1999 13 August 2002 (Remastered version) Recorded Rockfield Studios, Monmouth, Wales, 1999 Genre Alternative rock Length 56:49 Label Track Producer Big Country, Rafe McKenna Alternative cover Cover of the 2002 U.S. remaster of the album, renamed John Wayne's Dream. Stuart Adamson - Vocals, Guitar, Mandolin, Slide Guitar [Slide], Synthesizer [Moog] Bruce Watson - Guitar, Mandolin, Sitar, Slide Guitar [Slide] Tony Butler - Bass, Vocals, Vibraphone [Vibe] Mark Brzezicki - Drums, Vocals, Drum Programming [Programming] Josh Phillips - Keyboards Rowan Stigner aka Loop Skywalker* - Loops [Drum Loops] Strings [Electrastrings] – Anne Stephenson, Claire Orsler, Dinah Beamish, Ginni Ball*, Jules Singleton*, Sally Herbert Arranged By [String Arrangements] – Sally Herbert Backing Vocals – Eddi Reader, Kirsten Adamson, Rafe McKenna Management – Ian Grant Photography By – Jim Herrington Producer – Big Country, Rafe McKenna Producer [Pre-Production] – Mark Alberici, Nathan Smith 1. "Driving to Damascus" Stuart Adamson, Mark Brzezicki, Bruce Watson 3:58 2. "Dive in to Me" Adamson, Brzezicki, Tony Butler, Watson 5:02 3. "See You" Adamson 3:50 4. "Perfect World" Adamson, Brzezicki, Butler, Watson 4:02 5. "Somebody Else" Adamson, Ray Davies 4:04 6. "Fragile Thing" Adamson, Watson 4:33 7. "The President Slipped and Fell" Adamson, Brzezicki, Butler, Watson 2:57 8. "Devil in the Eye" Adamson, Davies 4:15 9. "Trouble the Waters" Adamson, Brzezicki, Watson 4:10 10. "Bella" Adamson 3:34 11. "Your Spirit to Me" Adamson 5:13 12. "Grace" Adamson, Brzezicki, Butler, Watson 5:10 John Wayne's Dream extra tracks No. Title Writer(s) Length 13. "Loserville" Adamson, Brzezicki, Butler 5:18 14. "This Blood's for You" Adamson 3:43 15. "I Get Hurt" Adamson 4:28 16. "John Wayne's Dream" Adamson, Brzezicki, Butler 8:44 Limited edition digipack extra tracks No. Title Writer(s) Length 13. "Shattered Cross" Adamson, Boonstra 4:02 14. "Too Many Ghosts" Hummon, Adamson 4:12 I suppose in some ways this is a really nice sideline day for me... I love Big Country, I have all their albums, and although a couple in the middle are a little weaker, the majority of the catalog is excellent. For me the band's career in its original form opens and closes with two classic albums. Debut - The Crossing The Last - Driving To Damascus The band did release another album in 2013 - The Journey. This was recorded with Mike Peters of The Alarm (another Celtic band from the eighties that I really like) because sadly shortly after the release of this album Stuart Adamson lost the battle with life..... On 26 November 2001, Adamson was reported missing by his wife Melanie. At the time the couple had been estranged for several weeks, and Melanie filed for divorce on the day he had disappeared. He had been due to face drunk-driving charges in March 2002, and had been ordered to attend Alcoholics Anonymous. He had previously experienced problems related to alcoholism, and had begun drinking again after having been sober for over a decade. On 16 December 2001 he was found dead in a room that he had booked into in the Best Western Plaza Hotel in Honolulu in Hawaii. According to a local police report he had died by hanging himself with an electrical cord from a pole in a wardrobe.[14][15] A subsequent Coroner's Office report found that he had consumed a 'very strong' amount of alcohol around the time of his death. This album though, I love it. For me their catalog is bookended with two classic albums and some excellent albums in the middle. I was quite a surprise when someone said earlier in the thread that Ray had collaborated with Stuart on two songs from this album.... and at the same time I was really pleased, because I had never noticed. Somebody Else. I walk through the debris of cardboard and clothes Trying to work out where everything goes I’m short of you and a book or ten And I’d love to hear those Leonard Cohen songs again You can keep the wok ’Cos it matches the satellite dish You can keep that crew neck sweater I wore to the Talking Heads gig I don’t need that angry sex I can find that for myself You can keep that body It belonged to somebody else Self-help books and motivational videos A ticket stub from the late night show Non-essential items of disfunctional-eese I don’t have no room for those water skis You can keep that ‘Kiss Me’ hat The one that I bought in Spain You can keep my Scalextric And all of my clockwork trains All that stuff I thought was good for my health You can leave it all on the bathroom shelf You can keep that body It belonged to somebody else A room a bed and a couple of chairs Had a hard time getting that fridge up the stairs Sitting by the window looking out at the rain I would love to hear those Leonard Cohen songs again You can keep the wok ’Cos it matches the satellite dish You can keep that crew neck sweater I wore to the Talking Heads gig I don’t need that angry sex I can find that for myself You can keep that body It belonged to somebody else (It belonged to somebody else You can keep that ‘Kiss Me’ hat The one that I bought in Spain You can keep my Scalextric And all of my Subbuteo men)* All that stuff I thought was good for my health You can leave it all on the bathroom shelf You can keep that body It belonged to somebody else Hey I was somebody else Yeah somebody else I was somebody else Somebody else [*Additional lyrics for ‘Rarities VII’ version only] Stuart Adamson and Ray Davies This is obviously a breakup song of sorts, and probably made all the more poignant by the circumstances that followed shortly after. I'd love to know how Stuart and Ray got together, and it would be nice to know what Ray's contributions here were. I can see some lines that may be Ray, but they could just as soon be Stuart. The opening line of walking through the debris of cardboard and clothes, could be taken literally or figuratively I reckon and it works either way on that level. Essentially it's the debris of what's left after the hammer came down and the battle was fought and lost... so now we have this physical and emotional wasteland. Wandering around trying to figure out how to put everything back together again, and to some degree whether we want to even bother. There are some books missing, and of course you're missing as well...... But I wish I still had my Leonard Cohen records.... I can see that, Leonard's one of those guys who can write to loss really well, and sometimes there is room to wallow in a bit of misery, before we try and lift ourselves back up again. Then we sort of go through a mental inventory of the things that are here, and the things that aren't, and also the things that memory connects those things to. For me the lyric works really well in what it is saying, and there is no doubt about what went down, and the devastation it has left behind. Musically this is just another excellent Big Country song. I like the semi-country guitar riff, that works as a bit of a road map for the song. It's interesting looking at the lyrics and listening to the song and going through the lyrics, because I reckon we have a great musical chorus and bridge, but there isn't really a typical chorus from a lyrical perspective. The inventory goes along as the sections of the song roll by with them. Anyway, I don't know whether anyone else here likes these guys, but this for me is another great song, of another great Big Country album, and it just so happens to have our hero Ray Davies as a co-writer.
