The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    I recall a vigorous yet polite debate about the jarring first line on the Kinks Preservation Society mailing list many many years ago. Amazingly, I've found a link to those 1997 messages in about two minutes - their search function is remarkably effective. The opinions are quite thoughtful and passionate and I think worth a quick scan for anyone interested:

    Kinks mailing list Digest, Number 552

    Kinks mailing list Digest, Number 557
     
  2. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    To me "When I Turn Off The Living Room Light" is the closest that Ray has gotten to Randy Newman, his one time fellow "prestige" WB/Reprise artist (in that they were critically acclaimed, but poor selling), especially since "Short People" was a big hit about the time that I first listened to the song. The first line is rather problematic & was probably one of the many reasons that Ray wanted The Great Lost Kinks Album pulled from the shelves. First line aside, a cute little ditty about how everybody's the same when darkness comes & hides what we look like which was written on order from the Beeb. The thing is what Beeb show? It's never mention for what show this song was written for. There's nothing that says that it was written for Where Was Spring or At the Eleventh Hour.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  3. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    It was definitely written for Where Was Spring, I can assure you: all relevant written records back this up, (for instance, the fact it was recorded Feb 4th 1969, while WWS was airing, whereas 11th Hour ceased broadcast the previous year). I’ve always seen it referred to as a Where Was Spring? song.
     
  4. donstemple

    donstemple Member of the Club

    Location:
    Maplewood, NJ
    When I Turn Off The Living Room Light

    Not a fan of this song. Lyrics don’t sit right, and that just drags it down for me. It doesn’t seem like a Kinks song, and to me, I don’t think it really is. It’s a song written by Ray, commissioned by a tv show, and Dave, Mick and Pete are the backing band.


    agreed with @ARL here. I actually hear a bit or essence of “She’s Bought a Hat Like Princess Marina” in here.
     
  5. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

    That, and it's always been included on the BBC comps.

    The two Where Was Spring tracks have always stuck out to me, not just because of the peculiar lyrical nature of both, but also the sound quality, feeling a little more flat(?) than the rest of the recordings around this period. They just have a sound all of their own, which I find is also reflected in the unique sounding Till Death Us Do Part. I don't come back to them very often, but I feel if we had the picture of all 5 songs from WWS we'd have a better picture (never mind the picture itself!). Why did Reprise have these at all, and is it only because of them they survive to this day?
     
  6. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I stand corrected. Thank you Avid ajsmith.
     
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  7. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    That's exactly the song I was hearing the most.
     
  8. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    The difference was probably that those songs were recorded at the BBC studios. I kind of wonder how Reprise ended up w/those particular songs & what happened to the rest of them. I would have thought that Ray may have copies stashed away someplace but they would have been out by now. Maybe the songs that we have today were inadvertently placed w/other "proper" Kinks masters.
     
  9. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    As someone well-versed in The Dr. Demento show and it’s wide expanse of genre’s and artists, I recognize a comedy song when I hear it. Makes sense it originated for a tv show. It kind of feels a bit like a Tom Lehrer parody of a one of those lists songs that itemize all the thing a lover finds wonderful about their partner, doesn’t it?

    Bony knuckles, bulbous nose, terrible hair, wrinkled skin…these are things offered up as disagreeable attributes. So, too, is being Jewish. That was a mistake. Yes, it was composed for a TV show, presumably in character. But the song exists in the 21st century outside of that context. Its saving grace is it’s obscurity—who would know this number today other than deep cut Kinks fanatics, who certainly recognize its author as no anti-semite.

    Still, here’s my problem with it: I like this song. But I don’t want to have to defend it, and that one line makes me feel like I have to. It reminds me of black face in old movies. I love 1920’s, 30’s movie comedies. (To give you an idea of how much, I’ve taken the trouble to book hotels, travel distances and attend comedy film festivals. I’ve never done that for a Beatles, Kinks, or any rock band convention) I hate that whenever Buster Keaton or the Marx Bros. or the Stooges don black face, my mind gets distracted with remembering to justify blackface’s historical context to a time when it was “normal” or “okay,” so, therefore, it’s really not a bad as it seems. And yet—-it does offend someone, somewhere, and it always has. That’s how I feel about this song. It is the Kinks blackface regret. I feel like I have to apologize for liking it. And I don’t want to have to make that kind of effort when enjoying my favorite band.

    If a magic gene granted me one wish to erase one Kinks recording from existence, it would be their lame cover of “Dancing in the Streets.” But if I got two wishes, the other song would be this one…all because of that single, unnecessary line.
     
  10. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    AFAIK (and happy to be corrected on this) the 2 Where Was Spring? tracks we have in full in were included on an LPs worth of stuff that was submitted to Reprise in 1969 purely to fulfil contractual obligations in terms of tracks submitted. (Distinct from the Four More… LP from a year earlier which was actually considered for release). This internal 1969 Reprise collection was later used as the basis for the GLKA in 1973.

    Not sure how The Kinks (or their people) had copies of these two tracks from WWS to submit to Reprise as they were was recorded internally at the BBC: maybe Ray asked for copies of just those 2 songs after they recorded them cos he thought they turned out nice, who knows. The fact they were recorded at the BBC makes it very likely that the masters were all junked soon after use in the programme, unlike Pye-recorded stuff where despite similar junking issues there seems more chance of the Sandovals of this world locating multis and alternates years later. This would seem to be backed up by the fact that no alternate versions of these 2 songs ever appear on any reissues, they’re always the GLKA mixes/takes.

    But what about Ray’s demos of the missing songs? Might they exist? Well in the brand new Ray interview in the Record Collector Kinks special, he is posed that very question by Jamie Atkins! Ray’s reply? ‘I’ve got some very bad home demos but they aren’t worth releasing’. Goddammit Ray!
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  11. markelis

    markelis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami Beach FL
    As a great man once said, “we are all the same age when the lights are out” (Sam Malone, Cheers [haven’t the foggiest idea which episode]).
     
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  12. markelis

    markelis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami Beach FL
    Another catchy song, Ray seems to be able to drop these without even trying at this point. All the more impressive that it’s catchy some how (again) without even having a chorus. Nonetheless, a line must be drawn somewhere. My life is short, and I’d prefer to listen to Pictures of Each Other twice rather than hear this one once. It not a bad tune, other weaker bands would likely kill to write a tune like this, but for The Kinks it’s average and won’t make my personal playlist.
     
  13. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    When I heard today's song , I couldn't help but think of Buddy Guy's "Pretty Girl"

    Pretty girl you know its a dirty shame
    You let these homely girls come up and take your man
    Pretty baby everybody knows you are fine
    But the a homely girl can make a many men change their mind

    Pretty girl you better watch your self
    before these homely girls come put you on the shelf
    Pretty baby you really look so good
    But these a homely girls are justa wreckin this neighborhood

    Pretty girl you better play it cheap
    cuz these homely girls can treat a man so sweet
    Pretty baby this is the real McCoy
    But these a homely girls can make so many men jump for joy

    Pretty girl you better watch your man
    yeah thesea homely girls will just a raise and sing
    Pretty baby these homely girls are smart
    They know you cant tell the difference once you get em in the dark

    Pretty baby
    a homely baby
    You wow me baby
    Know just what to do


    Now Guy's song is clearly straightforward and focused. I can't help but think Ray's song also works as a broader metaphor. And yes, once again, the words are set to a delightful tune.
     
  14. Scottsol

    Scottsol Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston, IL
    Dat’s funny, you don’t look Jewish, or Mongolian either.
     
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  15. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    I hear the Goldsboro thing. Some parts also sound like Blonde on Blonde Dylan (I Want You?), down to what we can make out of Ray's phrasing. Are we certain this is genuine ? In any case, all those little Where Was Spring ? additions you've posted are most welcome, @ajsmith. It's funny, I remembered the Voorman's animations thread on SHF but it's only when I wanted to post a link to it that I noticed YOU were that thread's OP and the original creator of the video… which of course makes perfect sense!
    Yes, out of context, the line is baffling, but it's highly probable (almost certain) the lyrics are connected to specific dialogues/characters/episodes in these series we know so little about. We can't even be sure whether the song is about Bron's character or about Fortune's, can we ? Of course, since it's sung by Ray, we hear it as a harsh lady put down, but it could very well be the other way around!
     
  16. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I totally hear the ‘I Want You’ similarity too.

    We can’t be 100 per cent that it’s genuine, I guess, but it certainly sounds (as far as can be made out) like the real deal, and also why would anyone fake such a thing? It’s hardly ‘Carnival Of Light’ in terms of legendary lost songs, in fact even most fans don’t know about this obscure song in the first place.

    I would be interested in knowing where this poor quality recording came from though. I got it from a CD bootleg called ‘Trip Through the 70s’ where it’s the opener and only 60s era track on a comp of live and alternate studio stuff that otherwise lives up to that title. But was it recorded off air by a fan at the time? If so, did they get any more of the show? Or does it come from somewhere else?
     
  17. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Side note: see post #6676 for Mark’s handy schedule of things to come. (Seriously, is there any other songwriter/band that is even in the running for being this prolific? It might be a couple weeks still before we hit Arthur!)
     
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  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    And as much as I love Dave, I'm itching to get to Arthur
     
  19. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Avid Fortuelo, is your avatar John Wayne who played a Mongolian chieftain in a movie where everybody in it died of cancer because it was filmed near the above ground atom bomb testing site in Nevada?
     
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  20. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    That seems very specific lol
    It sure is John Wayne
     
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  21. zipp

    zipp Forum Resident

    WHEN I TURN OFF THE LIVING ROOM LIGHT

    I don't think Ray's trying to be funny here. To me he's satirising people who think they can be obnoxious, but think it's OK because they're closing their eyes to their own shortcomings.

    To this end the lyrics are obviously nonsensical at times, possibly being uttered by a non-thinking illogical and racist Alf Garnett figure.

    Turning out the light doesn't change a thing. The girl is still Jewish. The smell of garlic is still in the air. Her nose is still a shining red light.

    What's right and wrong are clearly mentioned in the song. Ray is goading us into say that no everything is NOT right here and yes it IS wrong to pretend when it comes to expressing your true feelings.

    And all is revealed in the last verse when Ray repeats " WE don't feel as ugly as WE really are ...". You can be physically ugly but also mentally ugly and the character singing this song is obviously the latter... and maybe deep inside he knows it.

    Musically slight and somewhat repetitive but well-sung as usual.
     
  22. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    "When I Turn Off The Living Room Light"

    Well, we all know the lyrics are gonna be offensive to some people, especially when the song is taken out of context of its original purpose. I don't really want to get into a debate about what is offensive and what isn't, but this song strikes me as actually being very sweet and harsh at the same time. The word bulbous always makes me laugh when I hear it in this song. I like the melody and the vocal. Ray is obviously portraying a certain type of character in this song which was based on the TV show. Isn't this the show that inspired "All In The Family"? It sounds like it could also have been used on that show.
     
  23. donstemple

    donstemple Member of the Club

    Location:
    Maplewood, NJ
    That was specifically for the film adaptation of “Till Death Us Do Part”, which I believe is different from this other set of commissioned songs for the other tv show.
     
  24. HadgeTunes

    HadgeTunes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    And we've hit it: the song on the mid-'60s Kinks kronology that breaks the streak of "pretty great" to "absolutely perfect" tunes for me (bookended on the other end by "Never Met a Girl Like You Before," for very different reasons). Again, we're missing some key context here, but this is the first song in a long while where Ray's writing slips out of that magical sweet spot, with a song that's (IMO) an unpleasant listen and a (dare I say) ORDINARY song. This, for me, has always marked a shift in Ray's writing from absolute perfection to still great but less charming and subtle, with some quality control slipping in. In other words, for the first time, I hear mid-'70s Ray in this tune.

    Baffling how this was approved for several reissues while we had to wait patiently for 'Til Death" and "Pictures," two absolute gems!
     
  25. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Ha. I took part in a debate on this song in 1994 in that same mailing list, and there was an almost identical debate in 1993. It kept coming up over the years, and I hope it doesn't derail this thread.

    I was on the side of "Context aside, listing Jewishishness as a potentially unflattering 'feature' is not cool, and it's weird that this song was just put out there on vinyl again and again without that context." (Though that's stating it better than I personally came up with at the time.) Then the response would go "but the narrator is saying he _doesn't_ care if she's Jewish." Etc Etc. Around and around it went, and I stepped back from the whole topic.

    Ray does not help his case by explaining the song in a 1993 interview, which is somewhere in here:

    Kinks Mailing List, October 1993, Part B

    I have chosen to hope that there is indeed a character's context that we are missing, and yet I tend to skip over the song and not put it on my personal Kinks comps. Which is too bad, because other than the first two lines, I like it just fine.

    So fun to see the old digest of the list again! Here's the page with the whole thang:

    The Kinks Mailing List

    Apart from the TV- show, the song was first released on a Warner-Reprise Loss Leaders album in 1969, and that's where I first heard it. (Last I checked, Dave Emlen's site missed this debut:)

    The Big Ball (1970, Vinyl)
     
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