The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. jethrowup

    jethrowup Forum Resident

    United States
    "Big Black Smoke" and "Dead End Street" are '66 tracks though. (Yeah, I know, "End of the Season" was too).

    "Little Women" is a '67 track though, and probably their best instrumental.

    I think "Good Luck Charm" was recorded in '67.

    There's also "Autumn Almanac" but that was recorded around the time Something Else was released.
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  2. CheshireCat

    CheshireCat Forum Resident

    This is along the lines of what I'd choose. I like your track listing too. I'd possibly add 'Polly' and 'Wonderboy' onto sides two and three, so all sides have six tracks. Agree that the TV/Film songs don't belong here.
  3. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    I come clean, I included "Autumn Almanac" on my double TKATVGPS because I was thinking of "Good Vibrations" ending up on The Beach Boys' Smiley Smile aeons later. But I know that was exceptional circumstances, and a different country. But I was, as invited to by Mark, going a bit fantastical. I didn't envisage it as a likely or even possible release. No way Pye would have agreed to a Kinks double.

    I've got to disagree about long albums/double albums. I love them if the material is all good. With short albums I often have to listen to two in a row by the same band to get my fix (which 2fers are handy for). Disclaimer: I do love a good short album too! But when the music is on fire I want to fill my ears with as much of it as I can get.

    And from my perspective TKATVGPS is far from perfect and immaculate. For me it has five amazing songs, a lot of good ones, and a couple I don't enjoy. Just restating that for anyone newly dropping in.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
  4. zipp

    zipp Forum Resident

    This is no big deal, but when the Village Green album was released Wonderboy, Days, and Autumn Almanac were old released singles and were not considered for the album.

    The elephant in the room here is Sgt. Pepper. In my opinion Ray was trying to do a concept album for the UK market without singles and a complicated title. But by the time it came out it was old hat and it didn't sell.

    I obviously don't mind people doing fantasy compilations and personal playlists. I'm just saying they would not be historically viable alternatives to the original album.

    I'm going to be away for a few days but hope to be back for the next album which is a masterpiece.
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  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    It certainly is.... Enjoy your time off, and we'll see you soon.
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  6. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    The Dave Davies solo album.

    The Album That Never Was.


    A1 Death Of A Clown
    A2 Love Me Till The Sun Shines
    A3 Susannah's Still Alive
    A4 Funny Face
    A5 Lincoln County
    B1 There Is No Life Without Your Love
    B2 Hold My Hand
    B3 Creepin' Jean
    B4 Mindless Child Of Motherhood
    B5 This Man He Weeps Tonight

    Hidden Treasures


    Susannah's Still Alive 2:19
    This Man He Weeps Tonight 2:39
    Mindless Child Of Motherhood 3:10
    Hold My Hand 3:13
    Do You Wish To Be A Man 2:43
    Are You Ready 4:03
    Creeping Jean 3:11
    Crying 2:40
    Lincoln County 3:21
    Mr. Shoemaker's Daughter 3:08
    Mr. Reporter 3:37
    Groovy Movies 2:33
    There's No Life Without Love 2:00
    I Am Free 2:32
    Death Of A Clown 3:01
    Love Me Till The Sun Shines 3:17
    Susannah's Still Alive 2:20
    Funny Face 2:17
    Lincoln County 3:09
    There's No Life Without Love 2:05
    Hold My Hand 3:18
    Creeping Jean 3:14
    This Man He Weeps Tonight 2:42
    Mindless Child Of Motherhood 3:16
    Mr. Reporter 4:04
    Hold My Hand 2:59
    Good Luck Charm 1:39

    This is another sort of fantasy, although we have some after the fact the releases of an album that was definitely on the cards to be released. It was put together under the working title of Lincoln County, and was pretty much a forgone conclusion to be released, and after a few listens, I can say the material is very strong .... but what happened?

    Work began on this project after the unexpected success of Death Of A Clown, and initially it was going to include some blues numbers by Leadbelly and Big Bill Broonzy. Unfortunately lack of material and interest, on Dave's part, led to it being delayed until late 1968. Four new songs were recorded at this time and work was to be completed in early 1969, but was delayed partly due to Dave fracturing a finger.
    A good deal of the material was recorded in June 1969 just after the band had finished Arthur, and featured John Dalton on the bass.

    This Man He Weeps tonight and Mindless Child Of Motherhood were intended for the Arthur project, but ended up being used as b-sides and not getting on the album.
    Reprise files imply that Reprise received tapes of this album, under the title Lincoln County, in July 1969 while it was still considered for release by the band. By September of that year, the decision was made not to release the album. Throughout 1970, reports of a reworked version with new material were discussed; the possibility of issuing Dave's LP as the second half of a 2-LP set was raised, but by the close of that year all talk of the LP's release had ceased.

    The track listing, according to Doug Hinman was somewhat like this

      • "Susannah's Still Alive" (released as a single in 1967, remixed stereo version released on Kink Kronikles)
      • "This Man He Weeps Tonight" (released as a b-side of "Shangri-La", mono version released on the 2011 Deluxe Mono version of "Arthur"[8][circular reference]
      • "Mindless Child of Motherhood" (released as a b-side of "Drivin'", both mono and stereo version released on Arthur CD re-release)
      • "Hold My Hand" (released as a single in 1969, mono version released on The Album That Never Was; stereo version released on 2011 Arthur deluxe edition)
      • "Do You Wish To Be a Man?" (stereo version released on Hidden Treasures)
      • "Are You Ready?" (stereo version released on Hidden Treasures)
      • "Creeping Jean" (released as a b-side of "Hold My Hand", stereo version released on the 2004 Deluxe Edition of Village Green Preservation Society, mono version released on 2011 Arthur deluxe edition)
      • "I'm Crying" (stereo version released on Hidden Treasures)
      • "Lincoln County" (released as a single in 1968, mono version released on The Album That Never Was and bonus tracks for Something Else CD re-release) (longer stereo version released on 2011 Arthur deluxe edition)
      • "Mr. Shoemaker's Daughter" (stereo version released on Arthur CD re-release)
      • "Mr. Reporter" (stereo version released on Face to Face and remixed stereo version released on 2011 Arthur deluxe edition)
      • "Groovy Movies" (stereo version released on the 2004 Deluxe Edition of Village Green Preservation Society)
    "Lincoln County" was chosen as the next single but failed to chart. With subsequent singles meeting the same result, a combination of Davies' own lack of interest in continuing and Pye's decision to stop, killed off any hopes of an album.

    In a 1999 interview, Davies stated that:
    "I was quite surprised when management and the record company wanted me to make an album. I thought it was quite daunting. There were a couple of tunes I liked - 'Suzannah's Still Alive,' 'Lincoln County' - but it had to feel right, and it didn't feel right. I did a few songs in a demo studio and I knocked out three or four songs, and one of them was 'Creeping Jean,' and I started to get very depressed about the whole idea. One of the last songs I recorded then was 'I'm Crying,' so you can tell what frame of mind I was in."

    Dave also says in the notes from the Arthur box set
    "One of the reasons the album wasn't finished was because I felt the Kinks Management and the record company were forcing me too much. I think that was the main problem behind recording these songs, because I didn't really want to. It wasn't that I couldn't, but later on I felt happier with the type of songs I was writing. Also I felt very comfortable being in the Kinks and it seemed to be fulfilling to be part of a band. I didn't really want for more. I couldn't see the point."

    The band used was essentially just the Kinks. (numbers reference the track numbers on Hidden Treasures)

    Dave Davies - vocals and guitar
    Ray Davies - bvox (15) guitars and piano (1,3,4,10,26) pump organ (6) mellotron (5) organ (8,9) harmonica (1,5)
    Pete Quaife - bass (1,2,4,5,7-23,25-27)
    John Dalton - bass (3, 24)
    Mick Avory - drums (1-5, 7-24)
    Nicky Hopkins - Piano (15,17) organ (16,18) mellotron (27)
    Rasa Davies - backing vocals (15,16,18)
    brass arrangements - Lew Warburton (10-12, 25)
    Engineers - Alan Mckenzie and Andrew Hendrikson
    Produced by Ray Davies

    So for all intents and purposes this album, or at least the latter day versions that were released are essentially just Kinks albums with Dave writing and singing, and in itself that isn't a bad thing at all.

    The majority of the material here is very strong, and it seems a lack of interest and confidence from Dave is the major reason that this album never saw the light of day during the 68-70 time period.

    On the Arthur box set they laid out the tracks like this

    The Great Lost Dave Davies Album (Stereo)
    CD3-1 This Man He Weeps Tonight
    CD3-2 Mindless Child Of Motherhood
    CD3-3 Hold My Hand
    CD3-4 Do You Wish To Be A Man?
    CD3-5 Are You Ready?
    CD3-6 Creeping Jean
    CD3-7 I'm Crying
    CD3-8 Lincoln County
    CD3-9 Mr. Shoemaker's Daughter
    CD3-10 Mr. Reporter
    CD3-11 Groovy Movies
    CD3-12 There Is No Life Without Love

    and so from the various version we have of the album, balanced with Doug Hinman's list, we get a really good idea of how this album would have been laid out.

    Personally my reaction to this album on first listen was somewhat, this is pretty good, but to be honest initially it was a little lukewarm...... after spending a few weeks with it now, personally I think this is a strong album, with some great tracks. If anything you can sort of hear in a couple of spots that Dave was somewhat forcing out songs against his will to complete a project, and whereas Ray shone in that situation, Dave struggles a little, but to be completely fair, after the first album Ray had already been in the position of having to write. Up until Death Of A Clown doing very well as a single, Dave just wrote stuff when he felt like it. So one could hardly expect Dave to suddenly become prolific in his output.

    I'm looking forward to going through these tracks with you guys, because I think there are some great tracks on here, and I'm interested in reading what you all think about this.

    Unfortunately the Arthur box seems to have been a very limited box release and is now out of print and very expensive, but Hidden Treasures is still very much available, and it not only works as being a copy of Dave's unfulfilled solo album, but it works as a nice anthology of Dave's sixties songs with the band.... almost like an alternative Kinks .... either way, there are some really solid tracks, that it is really good have finally found a home, because they certainly deserve one.

    So as per normal, please give us your thoughts and feelings on this album/collection of songs. If you are one of our more informed folk, please add anything that I may have missed out, or correct me if I have made any errors. To the best of my ability I have tried to get across how it all went down, in the time I had available this morning to do this.

    I suppose my summary is - A very good collection of songs, that I consider to be a very good Dave/Kinks album, and I am very glad it was released.

    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    When you're working with material this strong it isn't really too hard lol
  8. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I was thinking about that too. The really interesting thing to me is, that if this had been in the seventies, one could just about guarantee that both albums would have been doubles
  9. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Are we including Dylan originals copyrighted but not performed/released by him?
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  10. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    Hi Mark, just to make sure, are we doing a track by track on the Dave Davies solo album tracks that haven't been discussed yet over the next few days, or are we just discussing the album as a whole?
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  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    We'll be doing a track by track.

    For reference, I will follow the Hidden Treasures album tracklist, obviously skipping the tracks we have already looked at :righton:
  12. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    This another source of personnel confusion to me, as if a great deal of the material was recorded in June 1969, then you'd think Dalton would be credited with more than just 'Mindless Child'.. my gut feeling is that a lot of the non single tracks are from this later period (they just sound mid 1969ish to me somehow) but with the contradictory info we have it's hard to know for sure.
  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Yea, it confused me somewhat.
    This is still fairly new to me.
    I sourced the info from wiki, the Hidden treasures sleeve, the Arthur box sleeve, and just tried to condense it into something coherent.

    I wonder somewhat if they more finished stuff off in June 69.... and added a couple of tracks....
    It seems with Dave's lack of enthusiasm, perhaps they intended to record the tracks again, but didn't.... maybe the horns and overdubs came then.

    Like most of the early Kinks stuff, it seems to be a mystery
  14. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    Now about Dave. From looking at the track-list (I don't own the box), I think the "Great Lost Dave Davies Album" from the Arthur set is the best presentation of this material. It could very well pass for a proper record, whereas the other track-lists are flawed, hurt by the inclusion of too many canonic Kinks recordings. But of course, it's also the least likely to have happened…
    I have really mixed feelings about this whole solo Dave situation. I hate the idea of pushing the solo career of a band member because of his looks or star-power or whatever, especially for a brothers band like the Kinks. But the fact songs as stellar as This Man He Weeps Tonight, Mindless Child of Motherhood or Do You Wish to Be a Man ? were relegated to obscure b-sides/compilation/unreleased status for so many years is also quite upsetting and seems to indicate an LP was very much needed… From a lot of Dave quotes and interviews, I get the feeling he'd agree with me on this : misguided pressure on him resulting in great quality material ultimately (all but) scrapped unjustifiably. Overall, Pye's handling of Dave's talents proved at the same time extremely unfortunate (superb songs in a vault) and paradoxically well advised (superb songs being created in the first place).
  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Although I'm glad the Kinks were signed and got to make all this great music, it seems whether we're looking at The Kinks, or Dave's material here, the weakest link in every scenario seems to be Pye.

    It seems to me, as somewhat an outsider to this material, Pye hindered the bands natural creative flow, and also made poor decisions in relation to forcing albums to come out.

    I'm very happy with Something Else, and The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society, but we know Pye wasn't behind them, and hindered the band, seemingly at every turn.
    The Dave scenario is just further evidence of this.
  16. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    I like the musical content of the lost Dave Davies album, (will try to discuss in detail when we get to the tracks!) but the sequencing is TERRY BULL! I'm thinking in particular of the decision to place the similarly rootsy/anthemic tracks 'Hold My Hand', 'Do You Wish To Be Man' and 'Are You Ready Girl' in a row in the middle of the album, completely nullifying their effectiveness, as well as having the two 'Hey Mr' tracks back to back, not to mention the two Ray-penned tracks back to back as well. And 'There Is No Life Without Love' is a bit of a head scratcher as a closer.

    I strongly suspect that the reason for this poor sequencing is there was literally no thought put into it at the time, as the acetate was just assembled in any old order (alongside the GLKA basis 'spare tracks' album and Arthur) for internal submission to Reprise in 1969. Unfortunately because this acetate is an authentic artifact from the time, in means the eventual full releases of this material on Hidden Treasures and the Arthur box had to stick slavishly to that order, but to me it really weakens the presentation of the material. I'm almost 100% sure that if the album had been commercially released in 1969 it wouldn't have had that running order, it just makes no sense.
  17. ROFLnaked

    ROFLnaked Forum Resident

    Pye the weakest link in the catalog of the Kinks...?

    Naturally it's all subjective, but nonetheless my mind cannot process this.

    Something Else--their grand masterwork, in my humble opinion--says hello...
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  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Totally agree with this mate. I enjoy it, but it does get bogged down a little, exactly where that trio come in.
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  19. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    That's fair, I didn't say I didn't love the albums.
    I guess to some degree it could be argued that Pye forced Ray's hand and got the albums released, but they just wanted singles. As a record company, they had no foresight into the changing market, and in my opinion at least, didn't support the band's efforts to create the albums they wanted. A series of delays and rushes all through, seem to show little regard for creative flow.
  20. Pawnmower

    Pawnmower Senior Member

    Dearborn, MI
    "When I Turn Off The Living Room Light" - I've never cared much for this one. I get the humor, but it's just endless vocals with no breaks, no solos, no real hook.. it could work in the context of a musical for sure, but not outside of it.
  21. croquetlawns

    croquetlawns Forum Resident

    I had Hidden Treasures which was OK (great liner notes!), but I think my problem with the Dave Davies album is that I don't enjoy his voice enough to listen to it for a whole album (this is obviously exacerbated on Hidden Treasures as it's 27 tracks!) - a song or two on a Kinks album (often) acts as a welcome change from Ray, but a whole album? No.
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  22. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Pye didn't do much for Dave's solo album. In his autobiography Dave says Pye wanted more recordings after the success of Death of a Clown. But Dave was unhappy with the studio he was assigned to make a solo album: 'It was more like someone's front room than a professional recording studio. They had these dreadful speakers...' Dave felt he was 'being forced to make an album on the cheap' so he got upset and cancelled the recordings. Still, in that session he recorded Shoemaker's Daughter and Creeping Jean, which he describes as 'a song about a slut-girlfriend-drug addict...sleazy but great fun'.

    Dave seemed to lack confidence in his songwriting skills and no-one bothered to give him the confidence he needed. His successes surprised everyone, including himself. It's a miracle he managed to record as many good songs as he did in 1967-1969. His situation reminds me a little of George Harrison in the Beatles - always in the shadows.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
  23. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Hidden Treasures has just 18 unique songs; the rest are mono mixes or different takes. There's a little bit of filler as you'd expect from a few songs that weren't intended to be released but I'm impressed by Dave's output, and that he doesn't allow himself to be typecast into a particular musical style.
  24. croquetlawns

    croquetlawns Forum Resident

    I just find his voice too grating to listen to for a whole album.
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  25. joejo

    joejo Well-Known Member

    Hmm, a 20 track mono Something Else, with This Is Where I Belong?
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