The case has been made both for and against “Arthur” the title track in such detail that I don’t want to repeat it. I come down strongly on the side of the for group. It’s one of my favorite Kinks songs. I’m not sure exactly what Ray means when he writes “could be you were right all along”. However, the song itself is so infectious and enthusiastically delivered that I’m in. The trade-off between Dave and Ray’s voices has never been so effective. The gorgeous folky opening verse of “Arthur was born just a poor, simple man”, through a melodically effective bridge or two, eventually giving way to the irresistible hook of “don’t you know it” is so spiritually nourishing musically that, for once, it practically bypasses the analytical part of my brain. Usually I need both parts stimulated but here I’m willing to give Ray the benefit of the doubt that his song means what he intends it to, whatever that is! The infamous John Mendelssohn wrote something to the effect that no other group save the Kinks has so enthusiastically and so often sung about something being “all right”. The effect of the “don’t you know it” chorus is very similar and, for me, unique to the Kinks. Ray’s writing and Dave’s energy reaches one of their peaks of symbiosis. All a bunch of blather on my part to back up the main point: I love this song.
It's Dave singing the whole first verse of Arthur, isn't it? Ray comes in with "If only life were easy..." This is the only track on the album where I have a clear preference for the mono mix. I have a Kinks songbook which has songs from 1965-1970, all singles except for Arthur. Go figure! As for Tommy vs. Arthur, I love them both. I heard Tommy much earlier, when it was released. Arthur slipped under most people's radar then, including mine. I've ignored the film.
Yes, Dave sings the “Arthur was born just a plain simple man…” and the “How’s your life and your Shangri-La…” parts. Ray sings the “If only life were easier…” and the “And now you see your children sailing off…” parts. I think they mostly sing the rest together.
I meant to mention this. I agree that this is one of the songs where I definitely prefer the mono. It completely elevates the song with more power and punch and makes it sound like it could be an earlier Kinks tune. I like Tommy, but not near as much as I like Arthur.
I've always had mixed feelings about the title track, but after having more context now thanks to the excellent discussion here, I gave it a fair listen with the mono vinyl (we're at the last album in the mono box already!). I enjoy the first couple of minutes for sure. I understand the context for the long conclusion, but it's quite a busy mix, and I think I'm physically sensitive to the sound pressure, which it starts to feel fatiguing as it goes on. On the other hand, there's a moment during the fade out where the fade pauses briefly and you can only hear bass, drums and a lovely, thin, picking guitar sound - I'd be more than happy to listen to that for a couple of minutes!
I missed my usual time to chime in on the thread; No surprise everything's already been said. (I might compensate for lack of original ideas by delivering unoriginal thoughts in verse). Apologies for the long multi-quote ahead. SHF really should put a cap on the number of quotes I had the same feeling and I think it's due to what I feel is a sense of anti-climax after what has been a dramatic story. But this could explain why Ray used this song as the finale. It would have been perfect for the end credits. Wonderful insight. Though I tend to think Arthur - a carpet layer - is still working class. Yes, it really is a coherent concept album - but I think the track sequencing from Australia onwards isn't linear enough. I had the same feeling. This thread has been fantastic. I have always found Tommy a chore to listen to all the way through - not unlike Preservation Act II. But the genius of Tommy is that its high points are stratospheric - the sensory overload of Sparks, the catchiness of Pinball Wizard, the ecstacy of the finale. This is a fine point. Too many concept albums rely on tedious link pieces to explain the story to the dumb listener. Great point. Townshend wrote a rock opera that his band could perform. Ray's equivalent was Starmaker (Soap Opera). Yes, and this is a recurring theme in Ray's songs over time. I'm glad you've highlighted this positive message. I need to work on this a bit more. Another great point. We all want the best for our children, but how bittersweet that is when they see better opportunities in another country (I have first hand-experience with this, even now) This would have made an interesting alternative ending. Me too! Me too, on both of these comments. I really am torn on this as the last track. Ditto!
"Mr. Churchill Says" may be my least favorite song on Arthur. After seven great tracks, this is the first lull in the album for me. I just think the song is way too long and, outside of the faster section, far from interesting. To me it's more of a story than a song. I don't skip tracks when I listen to albums, but if I did, this would be the first one so far I would skip. "She's Bought a Hat Like Princess Marina" is a much more entertaining song than "Churchill," but I don't see how this fits on the album. There are some seriously heavy tracks on Arthur and the kazoo in the middle mixed with the comedic ending, seems out of place. I do enjoy the track out of context better. The "buddy can you spare me a time" section is a good change, but brits don't have dimes do they? Interesting choice. "Young and Innocent Days" - As others have said, a beautiful piece of work. It's just three verses, delicate backing vocals and tasteful acoustic guitars. Dave performing it at the WTC is haunting indeed. I didn't know that happened. Topically, it could fit on VGPS. In fact, the louder guitars here remind me of another "days" song: "Days."
Arthur This song kind of sums up my feelings on the album as a whole. It is OK and it obviously fits the album, but somehow it is just below the elite level of Kinks songs. ARTHUR is a good album, but coming after the trio of FACE TO FACE, SOMETHING ELSE, and VILLAGE GREEN PRESERVATION SOCIETY, where each album was a little better than the one before, it stands out for not being an improvement. That may be a bit unfair since those other albums are so great, but that's the standard that the Kinks set at this point!
That's pretty much how I see it. I appreciate Arthur more thanks to the commentary in this thread, but I still don't love it - for me, it's a bit of a dip between VGPS and Lola.
Also, Dave sings lead on the "Arthur we like you and want to help you" and "Arthur we know and we sympathize" parts with Ray singing backing vocals. Ray does the "Somebody loves you don't you know it?" and the "Don't you know it? Don't you know it?" and the "Oh we love you and want to help you parts" Dave or John Dalton might back Ray during the "Now we see your children sailing off to the setting sun" part. It's a bit hard to tell who is on backing vocals during that part.
The Virgin Soldiers British quad poster by John Stockle Directed by John Dexter Written by John Hopkins John McGrath Ian La Frenais Based on The Virgin Soldiers by Leslie Thomas Produced by Leslie Gilliat Ned Sherrin Starring Lynn Redgrave Hywel Bennett Nigel Davenport Nigel Patrick Rachel Kempson Cinematography Kenneth Higgins Edited by Thelma Connell Music by Peter Greenwell Production companies High Road Productions Open Road Films Distributed by Columbia Pictures Release date 15 October 1969 (London) 5 February 1970 (New York City) Running time 95 minutes Country United Kingdom Language English The Virgin Soldiers is a 1969 British war comedy-drama film directed by John Dexter and starring Lynn Redgrave, Hywel Bennett, Nigel Davenport, Nigel Patrick and Rachel Kempson. It is set in 1950, during the Malayan Emergency, and is based on the 1966 novel of the same name by Leslie Thomas. The film's popularity spawned a 1977 sequel, Stand Up, Virgin Soldiers[1] with Nigel Davenport repeating his role as Sgt Driscoll. Private Brigg is a soldier sent to Singapore during the Malayan Emergency along with a squad of naïve new recruits. There he falls for Phillipa Raskin, the daughter of the regimental sergeant major. · Lynn Redgrave as Phillipa Raskin · Hywel Bennett as Pte Brigg · Nigel Davenport as Sgt Driscoll · Nigel Patrick as R.S.M. Raskin · Rachel Kempson as Mrs. Raskin · Jack Shepherd as Sgt Wellbeloved · Michael Gwynn as Col Bromley-Pickering · Tsai Chin as Juicy Lucy · Christopher Timothy as Cpl Brook · Don Hawkins as Tasker · Geoffrey Hughes as Lantry · Roy Holder as Fenwick · Riggs O'Hara as Sinclair · Gregory Phillips as Foster · Peter Kelly as Sandy Jacobs · Mark Nicholl as Cutler · Alan Shatsman as Longley · Jonty Miller as Forsyth · Jolyon Jackley as Cpl Gravy Browning · Robert Bridges as Sgt Fred Organ · James Cosmo as Waller · Graham Crowden as Medical Officer · Dudley Jones as Doctor · Matthew Guinness as Major Cusper · Naranjan Singh as Sikh · F Yew as 'Hallelujah' · Brenda Bruce as Nursing Sister (uncredited) · Warren Clarke as Soldier (uncredited) · Barbara Keogh as WRAC (uncredited) · James Marcus as Soldier (uncredited) · Jeremy Roughton as Soldier (uncredited) A young and uncredited David Bowie appears briefly as a soldier escorted out from behind a bar. The Virgin Soldiers was the 17th-most-popular film at the U.K. box office in 1969 --------------------------------Wikipedia--------------------------------------------------------------------- I know nothing much about this movie at all to be honest. I remember seeing it in video libraries back in the day, but the cover and title just made me think it was probably some really weird, and likely poor movie, so I never rented it to watch. The movie is actually based on a novel by Leslie Thomas OBE (22 March 1931 – 6 May 2014), who was born in Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales. Thomas had a pretty rough time of it as a kid, when at the age of twelve his father was lost at sea, and a few months later his mother died of cancer. He ended up doing a course in journalism at South West Essex Technical College in Walthamstow. In 1949 he was called up for National service and did a two year tour of duty in Singapore. He was briefly involved in military action during the Malayan Crisis, taking action against communist rebels. When he returned to London he returned to his job at a local newspaper. Eventually he became the sub-editor and a reporter with the London Evening News newspaper, and left there in 1965 to start a full time writing career. His first book was the Autobiography This Time Next Week, in 1964. In 1966 after leaving the Newspaper he Wrote The Virgin Soldiers. He wrote many books between 1964 and 2010, but one that may interest our thread followers was a series of detective novels called Dangerous Davies. There were four books – 1976, 1987, 1993, 1998, and there was a movie version of Dangerous Davies, The Last Detective in 1981, and in 2003 Peter Davison (All Creatures Great And Small, Dr Who) played the lead role as The Last Detective (17 episodes). Although using his experience of the Singapore posting, it is not Autobiographical, but rather “inspired by” his time there. It is based on a love triangle situation between Private Brigg, Sergeant Driscoll and Phillipa Raskin, the daughter of the Regional Sergeant Major. The title comes from Private Brigg and Phillipa Raskin both being very young and indeed virgins. Anyway, I am going to post some youtube clips for reference. It actually sounds like it may be quite interesting. I’m sure some of you guys have seen it, so please give us the lowdown A movie review
Folks seem to make a big deal about David Bowie appearing in this movie.... Well when the three guys are talking at the bar here, you see someone go across the screen behind them, and it's Bowie, but you would need to pause the film to be able to tell really lol
Well I thought there were a couple of clips on youtube for this but essentially that seems to be about all there is. There was a version on this released in 1969, and a remake in 1977..... the only other clip I can find is this one, and it's a real stunner lol
It's more 'squint and you might see him' than 'blink and you'll miss him'! Even without blinking he's likely to be missed. I wonder how many Bowie fans sat through this on re-runs or vhs wondering where he was?!
Reference guide Oct 1963 - Nov 1966 1967 Apr 1967 Mr Pleasant - Alt version - Beat Club - live - beat club - instr (whistling) This Is Where I Belong - Ray live - Ray with Francis Black May 1967 Mr Pleasant EP Mr Pleasant This Is Where I Belong Two Sisters - Ray live (with chat) Village Green - Instrumental - Ray May 1967 Waterloo Sunset - instr. - live 73 - Ray live 78 - live 94 - Ray and Damon Albarn - doco excerpt - Ray and Bowie - Ray live (Peter dedication) Art Nice and Gentle May 1967 Waterloo Sunset EP Documentary Jul 1967 Death Of A Clown - Dave Live - Dave live 2002 Sept 1967 Something Else By David Watts - Live 84 - Dave live 97 - Ray live 2010 - Alt mono - alt version Death Of A Clown Two Sisters No Return Harry Rag - BBC - Ray 2010 - alt version Tin Soldier Man - Sand On My Shoes (original) - Alt backing track Situation Vacant - mono Love Me Till The Sun Shines - BBC - live 69 - Dave 97 - stereo Lazy Old Sun - alt version Afternoon Tea - German Stereo - Alt stereo - Canadian Mono Funny Face End Of The Season Waterloo Sunset Little Women backing track Dave And Ray interview sixties Echoes Of The World - The Making Of Village Green Preservation Society Oct 1967 Autumn Almanac - stereo - Top Of The Pops - live fan jam - Ray - breakdown Nov 1967 Sunny Afternoon LP Nov 1967 Susannah's Still Alive - stereo - video 1967 BBC sessions - Sunny Afternoon Autumn Almanac Mr Pleasant Susannah's Still Alive David Watts Death Of A Clown Good Luck Charm Jan 1968 Live at Kelvin Hall Part 1 Part 2 Jan 1968 Wonderboy - video - Top Of The Pops - stereo mix Polly - stereo mix April 1968 The Kinks EP June 1968 Days - stereo mix - Glastonbury 2010 - live 1969 - video edit - Basil Brush - Alt stereo - Acoustic - 1991 EP version Aug 1968 Lincoln County - stereo mix - Dave live There Is No Life Without Love Colour Me Pop Medley She's Got Everything Promo film July 1968 Colour Me Pop - Dedicated Follower Of Fashion A Well Respected Man Death Of A Clown Sunny Afternoon Two Sisters Sitting By The Riverside Lincoln County Picture Book Days Nov 1968 The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society - the gold disc award The Village Green Preservation Society - Alt mix with studio banter - Live 73 Do You Remember Walter - Euro Stereo - Backing Track - live 94 Picture Book - real stereo - live 69 - live 73 - Ray 2011 Johnny Thunder - alt mix - stereo - original stereo - Ray (+VGPS) 2008 - Ray 2010 - Crouch End Chorus Last Of The Steam Powered Trains - alt ending - live 69 - live 70 - Dave live Big Sky - alt stereo - live 69 - Crouch End Chorus Sitting By The Riverside - Stereo Animal Farm - alt stereo - Ray 2004 - stereo Village Green - alt vocal - backing vocal Starstruck - alt vocal - video - stereo - Ray 2008 Phenomenal Cat - alt mix - stereo - stereo US link All Of My Friends Were There - stereo Wicked Annabella - stereo - Dave 97 Monica - stereo People Take Picture Of Each Other - Euro stereo (big band) - stereo - live 73 extra tracks Mr Songbird - stereo Berkley Mews - stereo - single mix Rosemary Rose - mono Misty Water - stereo - alt stereo Did You See His Name? - mono Till Death Us Do Part - stereo - Chas Mills vocal - Anthony Booth vocal Lavender Hill Pictures In the Sand - instrumental Easy Come, There You Went Egg Stained Pyjamas Mick Avory's Underpants Spotty Grotty Anna Where Did My Spring Go? - video When I Turn Off The Living Room Light Darling I Respect You Village Green At The BBC Days Waterloo Sunset Love Me Till The Sun Shines Monica Village Green Preservation Society Animal Farm Last Of The Steam Powered Trains Picture Book Do You Remember Walter? Dedicated Follower Of Fashion/Well Respected Man/Death Of A Clown Picture Book Preservation Overture Ray in Denmark with the Denmark Choir And Orchestra Colour Me Pop 1968 International EP's 1968 Four More Respected Gentlemen Pete Quaife - interview - Kast Off Kinks - I Could See It In Your Eyes - Dead End Street 67-69 Dave Davies Solo Album This Man He Weeps Tonight - mono - acoustic Mindless Child Of Motherhood - mono - live 69 - BBC Hold My Hand - demo - mono - acoustic Do You Wish To Be A Man? Are You Ready? Creeping Jean - stereo - live 99 I'm Crying - better master Mr Reporter Mr Shoemakers Daughter Groovy Movies Climb Your Wall Dave Live various Rasa Didzpetris Davies March 69 Plastic Man - stereo - beatclub 69 King Kong - stereo - video Oct 1969 - Arthur - liner notes Victoria - mono - live 69 - live 73 - live 1980 - live 2010 Yes Sir No Sir - mono - alternate Some Mother's Son - mono - live 1970 Drivin' - mono - alternate Brainwashed - mono - live 69 -live 72 Australia - mono - single Shangri La - mono - 2019 remix - backing track - Ray live Mr Churchill Says - mono - BBC - live 69 She's Bought A Hat Like Princess Marina - mono - live 72 - Ray 2010 Young And Innocent Days - Dave 2001 - mono Nothing To Say - mono Arthur - mono The 69 US Tour - Then Now And Inbetween - God Save The Kinks Fillmore West, November 27th 1969 A day at the Zoo with Ray Davies Oct 1969 The Virgin Soldiers Preservation Live Starmaker Tv Play
I always knew Arthur was different from anything else the band did. Different from the “normal” early albums, different from the Village Green Preservation Society abstract vision (no narrative, just a state of mind), but also different from all the concept albums/musicals/operas that were to come in the next decade, in that it was never envisioned as something they could bring to the stage as a band or a traveling theater or a rock'n roll circus (or whatever they’d call their early seventies format). This approach informs the Arthur songwriting in quite a fascinating way. The way the concept unfolds, the songs have to breath and exist onto themselves as one-offs, almost like the Magical Mystery Tour ones. Of course, as we’ve discussed, the album theme is incredibly potent and focused, and the songs fit in perfectly. But no matter how complex and layered they may be, they’re supposed to work both in and out of context. I had to go through these last two weeks' collective scrutiny to really grasp how unusual this is. Doing the one track a day exercise for the first time, it's become clear to me that all the songs are just as good (and probably even better) as standalone experiences. I always thought the opposite, mainly because I’d never even tried to isolate them from one another. I’d typically put the album on and be engulfed in (and maybe slightly overwhelmed by) the concept. Encouraged to listen to them one by one, it's become clear that Ray put into most of them the structural invention and meticulous craft of some of his greatest 66-67 epic mini-suite singles: Dead End Street, Waterloo Sunset, Autumn Almanac (and the then unreleased Lavender Hill) a style of writing he all but abandoned during the Village Green period, and one he would almost never come back to.
I more or less missed the Arthur LP discussion. It’s my favorite Kinks album, the reason why summed up nicely in John Mendelssohn’s liner insight: there's not a song in the lot, start they with harpsichords or slow military drums, that ends up anything less than great bopping rock. That nails it for me; even “Young and Innocent Days” finds its top gear. This album always gets my blood moving and toes tapping. I’ve been trying to catch up on reading all the comments the past few days, gathering some thoughts I might share on various tracks….but….meh, I reach a point where it’s starting to feel like a homework assignment. So, onward to Lola, I guess. I’ll just double back to one thing, though, re: comments on “Yes Sir, No Sir:” the part where the line is “…if he dies we’ll send a medal to his wife…” I’ve always heard what comes next not as maniacal laughter of a psychopathic military officer taking delight in sending boys to the slaughter (really?) but as a cutaway to the wife, bawling her eyes out upon receiving the medal. Especially since it is the timed response to the cue: “…medal to his WIFE..(cue wife’s tears)…” I dunno, maybe it’s just me. It strikes me as a natural reaction to the concept of a wife getting the medal for the dead husband. A crying widow rather than a perverse homicidal officer seems to fit the tone of the overall record better, especially when it works as a precursor to sorrowful war time sacrafice (Some Mothers Son) and overall war time home front sacrifice, re: Mr. Churchill Says.
This brings to mind my longstanding thought that the track Arthur provides the listener critical exposition about what's going on and the the themes the album explores, and therefore might have worked better at the top of the album rather than the closer. But then again, how could the album possibly not start with Victoria? Again, thanks to Mark and all the other posters who have enlightened me so much on this wonderful, wonderful record. You know who you are.
Both correct. After the VGPS flop (and Pye), maybe he became resigned to it. Lola album will reflect some of this. I do enjoy (get) Arthur more than before though. Thank you.
It seems to be highly unique in the concept album world. I have a ton of concept albums, and most work to some degree, but Arthur seems among the most coherent, in spite of its abstract nature. I agree with you. To me every song is great... I listen to it as an album, merely because that's how I like to listen to music.
While it's fairly well known amongst Kinks fans that Ray wrote the theme for this movie (and I think some other songs in the film, if I recall correctly), the only Kink to actually perform on the theme was Quaife, who played bass on the theme in one of his few appearances outside of the Kinks-proper and one of his final Kinks-related recordings. Here's Quaife's hilarious anecdote about "the Virgin Soldiers Theme" session (from a 2000 email): Ok. As you might know I used to live opposite Ray on Fortis Green - which meant that I was often at his place listening whilst he was composing. I was there when he finished The Virgin Soldiers theme and, being very fast on the uptake, I had the melody and arrangement down pat. Ray suggested that, as I knew the piece, I play session bass on the recording - which I agreed to. When I arrived at the studio the room was filled with real, live musicians! This was a first for me and so I proudly made my way over to the bass amplifier and plugged in - in full view of the professionals (who were probably wondering who the hell I was). After a while the arranger came round handing out the sheet music to each musician. He got to me and asked "Are you the bass player?" "Yep!" I replied, smiling at the others. I put the music on the stand and began to studiously study it - dismissing the fact that I couldn't read a note! With a cool shake of the head I sat back complacently and waited for the first run-through. We went through the number several times without any problems. I can tell you I had never felt so proud. Suddenly the arranger decided to make a change to the arrangement....! I knew now that my musical ear was about to be tested to the max! I sat and listened as hard as I could to what the pianist was doing. After a couple of tries I felt I had it in the bag - the change wasn't that drastic. However, the arranger began to make his way slowly around the studio making the necessary changes to each musician's score. When he got to me he again asked, "And you are the bass player?" I nodded and he took my music score and went to make the changes. Suddenly his face took on a confused look as he studied the score - then, with a sigh he turned the score upside down - that is, the right way up.... Can you imagine how I felt? Regards, The Crutch. Pete Quaife at the Recording Session for "Virgin Soldiers"