The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    "I Don't Need You Anymore" is a great raving rocker that would have definitely graced the album -- as would the other song, which I've just heard for the first time --you can really hear the beginnings of garage rock craze as well as punk on this one. It also really stands out lyrically. I mean, The Rolling Stones had these sort of nasty telloffs...but not that many in January 1964, when even Dylan was still mainly doing social protest songs and hadn't gone all nasty. Really, you can say that basically nobody was writing anti-love songs this directly at the time. WEll, outside of the blues realm, of course.

    And there's a bit of gospel in this chorus, too, which just kind of makes t
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Good point mate, I hadn't even considered that
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  3. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    I Don't Need You Anymore is the third best song on the debut LP… except it's not on it. It's one of their best early singles B-sides… except it never was a B-side at all. I guess that's why we sought bootlegs when we were younger and why we were happy to buy box sets and deluxe editions multiple times. I Believed You is also a good one, in the same Mersey vein as their first singles, except Dave is singing lead. You need those lost songs, those bewildering missed opportunities, those tragic track-listing mistakes, it's all part of the charm and appeal of pop obsession.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  4. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    I already mentioned it when I prematurely posted it to this thread, but I enjoy the kind of unresolved, pensive mood of 'I Believed You' which has a fairly novel take on boy/girl lyrics with it's contemplation of which girl to go for when your ex wants you back (but you're with your rebound), all conveyed by some neat'n'nimble melodic shifts. It's no masterpiece but there's a lot of latent talent (hey those two words words are anagrams!) contained in that seed.. and it's a Dave song! He had it going on songwriting wise from the beginning, he just wasn't an 'I write therefore I am' type on the level of Ray. But who is?
  5. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus

    I post on the internet therefore I am.
  6. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    I hear what you're talking about, but it's not the same note-for-note arrangement, riffs or chords. Also, this is very heavily swung, and that isn't.
  7. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

    Both solid tracks. I Believed You maybe didn't make the cut if Ray was being his controlling self right from the outset, but there's no excuse for I Don't Need You Anymore not making the cut, if only to save time and money making the LP down the road! I'm going to make the daring assumption that when it came to making the album, they simply forgot they recorded it. It's a decent Ray Rocker, and certainly above many of the covers on the album. It would make a pretty regular beat group B-Side for 1964.
  8. Pawnmower

    Pawnmower Senior Member

    Dearborn, MI
    If Shel Talmy didn't want some royalties, we wouldn't have those 2 Bald songs taking up space.
  9. Endicott

    Endicott Forum Resident

    I Believed You -- Garagey Beatles. Solid enough, but relatively undistinguished to my ears. I do agree that it's an unusual take for a relationship song.

    I Don't Need You Anymore -- I don't think it's particularly better or worse than what made it onto the album. A straight-ahead rocker with, again, a non-formulaic description of a relationship.

    I don't think either track is particularly essential, but it's nice to have those two timestamps in the Kinks' evolution.
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  10. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

    Of course, this is why even disregarding those it's worth noting that we've all looked unfavourably on some of the over covers here.
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  11. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    New Mexico
    I Believed You

    I Don't Need You Anymore
    Solid rocker with attitude. A keeper.
  12. cwitt1980

    cwitt1980 Senior Member

    Carbondale, IL USA
    Do we know who the drummer is on "I Don't Need You Anymore"? I would assume Bobby Graham. One of the very simple, but effective, things about this song that I like is it's cymbal splash at the beginning. That was something Keith Moon would make one of his trademarks later on. It seems the Kinks along with Talmy & Graham were trying to find those little drum nuances for the singles. I think this particular track may have been a possible contender for a single but then they changed their mind. That would explain why it never made it to the album and then just got shelved. I don't recall any covers either. One would think it would have gone into the publishing bag of tunes floating around at this time.
  13. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Maryland, USA
    I Believed You and

    I Don’t Need You Anymore

    I don’t consider these songs part of the Kinks cannon proper. Both were a) rejected for release by all concerned and b) only emerged after the band had ceased existing. That they are known to the world at all is merely because the Kinks achieved the kind of legendary status that results in these sorts of historical artifacts being shared with devoted fans. They are curiosities only and shouldn’t be considered with the same weight as their other songs, IMO.

    Both numbers are just of couple of formulaic Mersey-ish knock-offs that are part of Ray and Dave’s songwriting self-education. Considering that neither brother evolved significantly in that direction (I get the sense the band was never particularly enamored with the Mersey sound, and only went down that road because, well, that’s what was selling at the time) both these cuts are non-entities. I rarely listen to them.

    What they do reveal, however, is the band had as much promise as any other British combo being tested during this period in the Beatles wake when the entire record business was hearing cash registers and signing any long-hair guitar playing ensemble. And, yeah, FWIW, “I Don’t Need You Anymore” is no better or worse than any of the other tracks cut prior to the breakthrough “You Really Got Me” single.
  14. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    "I Believed You" is a killer song - maybe not for The Kinks but surely Gerry & The Pacemakers would have had a hit with it?

    "I Don't Need You Anymore" - wouldn't have been out of place on the album, indeed would have been one of the better tracks on it.
  15. Pawnmower

    Pawnmower Senior Member

    Dearborn, MI
    "I Believed You" - Several people here say Dave is singing, but this sounds totally like Ray. Even the liner notes say it's Ray, so I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from. I agree with @Martyj that these are "formulaic Mersey-ish knock-offs." Ray is still learning and seemingly striving to sound like what's already on the radio. I don't think this one would have improved the album much. At least not in this demo form.

    "I Don't Need You Anymore" - Sounds like Ray and Dave singing together with Dave more prominent on the chorus. This one should have probably made the album. Not the demo on disc 1 of the deluxe with barely audible drums, but the more finished take on disc 2. That one rocks harder thanks to the drums and better quality of the recording. It's more confident overall. I hear nothing that would keep it from fitting in nicely on the debut.
  16. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Massachusetts, USA
    oh yes, his miserliness precedes him. I think he wore it like a badge of honor sometimes. :laugh:
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  17. idleracer

    idleracer Forum Resident

    :kilroy: A rare example of a song with verses in a major key, and a chorus in a minor key (the other way 'round is extremely common). It begins with the chorus on a Bm chord, but when we get to the verses, it's revealed that (like most of Ray's compositions from this period), the song is in G. Interestingly, right around this same period, Bobby Vee recorded a similar tip of the hat to the Mersey sound that also begins with a minor key chorus:

    :kilroy: Obviously heavily inspired by "Glad All Over," which was at #1 in the UK when it was recorded. It's still a great track in it's own right, though.
  18. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    I agree. I was surprised to read that it was thought to be Dave. It very clearly sounds like Ray to me.

    "I Believed You"- I'm not familiar with either of these songs, but I listened to them several times last night and this morning. This song is better than at least half of the songs on the debut. A sweet bass line and punchy drums with a great vocal by Ray.

    "I Don't Need You Anymore"- I love the double vocal on this song. A very early indicator that the two brothers sing very well together. Dave's vocal is better on this song than any of his songs that made the album. It has a punk energy and wouldn't sound out of place on a Motörhead set list. I seriously thought of Lemmy while listening to Dave's vocal and the melody of the song. This is a great song and I have no idea how it was left off the album and forgotten about.
  19. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

  20. Pawnmower

    Pawnmower Senior Member

    Dearborn, MI
    The Kinks deluxe set credits the song to both of them.
  21. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    Interesting. He could be singing on the I Believed You part, but it really sounds like Ray on the verses especially when he sings these lines

    The Lovin' Days Were Through
    Now That You Want Me So

    Especially the way the vocal sounds on the words Through and So. It clearly has that Ray vibrato. I don't really hear Dave, but maybe he is singing along on some of the parts? Dave's voice was very shrill sounding in these early days and I am not hearing it much on this song.

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  22. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Definitely Graham. You can spot his style a mile away.
    Yep. It's Ray singing.
  23. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader

    ontario canada
    Please use the expression Beatlesque.
    It sounds nobler and more high brow.
  24. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident

    Runnemede, NJ
    Kinks 1998 Castle Reissue/Remaster CD ESM CD482 (mono)

    Source: MacBook Pro(JRiver)>Schiit Modi 3+,Loki,Vali 2>KLH headphones

    Dynamic Range estimated avg about 11.5. I am up to track 3 on this album, and I am not complaining. But it could use a little more bass or bottom end to give it some punch. I Took My Baby Home just came on. There's the bass and bottom end. Again, Why couldn't they record the rest of the album like this. I noticed the notes that it was recorded on 17-Jan-64 and the rest of the album minus the bonus tracks were recorded xx-Aug-64.

    Now, Too Much Monkey Business has that nice bass groove and punch on this CD.

    Bonus tracks: Tracks 15-17 LTS,YSWM,YDSTM has nice bass and punch to it. Recorded 7-Feb-64 and 17-Apr-64. The rest of the bonus tracks were recorded from August-November '64. I Gotta Move (track 20) has a nice bass drum sound to drive this song. Louie, Louie (track 21) vocals are just a bit harsh, but the bass guitar definitely drives this song. Track 26, I Don't Need You Anymore, recorded Jan. '64 should have been released on the debut album.

    Grade: B-. I was expecting this to sound harsh all throughout the album, but I didn't. Except for Louie, Louie. With my computer set up, I have no problem with this album today. It's a good listen and the bonus tracks are a plus. After I listen to the Deluxe version, maybe this grade will change.
  25. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident

    Runnemede, NJ
    Kinks 2011 Sanctuary UMC Deluxe Edition 275 627-4

    Source: MacBook Pro(JRiver)>Schiit Modi 3+,Loki,Vali 2>KLH headphones

    Disc 1: Stereo. The original stereo album has consistent bass/bottom throughout which I will give the edge over my Reprise vinyl lp. The 14 bonus tracks is a plus on this disc. The Dynamic range is 6-8 on disc 1. It may be a little loud, but I did not experience ear fatigue when listening to all 28 tracks on this disc. I don't like to crank the volume up when I listen through headphones.

    Disc 2: Mono. I am four tracks in as I am typing. Dynamic Range is all over the place on this disc. 6-14 spread over 28 tracks. Maybe it is loud, but definitely not compressed. The bass guitar and drum stands out more than the previous versions I listened to.

    Now listening to YRGM. This is the best I have heard this song for detail. I can pick up Rasa Didzpetriz backup vocals. The sound stage on this album is the best I have heard compared to the releases above. I would never thought I would enjoy the tambourine being played on BHW. I always feel there is something 'off' when listening to the BBC tracks. Dry, no life in the songs.

    Grade: A. I had to think about it for a little bit. I enjoyed listening to this entire Deluxe version. This is the first time I listened to this album on this set-up. The bottom end has more consistency throughout the album. I like the crunchiness of Dave's guitar, the snare drum has that bite to it. I can listen to each instrument which makes a good sound stage.

    Granted, I don't have every version released on CD, but I would recommend this one whoever is deciding which album to purchase. You definitely get your money's worth with the bonus tracks.

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