The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Yea... I was trying to somewhat stay true to what it seemed like they had in mind... or what they seemed to have in mind ... I wanted to put Top Of The Pops on there, but the sets from each night are quite different, and so it makes it awkward.
    The opener was a flip of a coin in a sense, because both are great... I went with Til The End Of The Day, from the perspective of a song that might get rainy day fans to bite lol
     
  2. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    Cum on Feel the Hair
    It’s not there, there, there :D
     
  3. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Gudbuy T’Mane.
     
  4. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Mark i think you are more than a little bit right!
     
  5. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Clearly Dave lost a bet and had Ray blindfold him and throw a dart at a Kinks Dave vocal songlist for the tour.
    It is the only plausible reasoning I can come up with.
    N.b. In 7 years i am not sure Dave got any better at singing it which begs the obvious question: Was it just an absolutely woeful choice of song for his voice to begin with?
     
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  6. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Yes but if you have too much you may find you inadvertently insert Lola at the end anyway.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  7. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    Granted it’s been 23 years since the Velvel reissues were released and maybe some new info has been found since then, but in the liner notes in that 1998 release Ray states that no footage of the Carnegie shows exists. He says they filmed lots of shows on that tour and the studio/live album was supposed to show the yen and the yang of a band’s life on the treadmill of albums and tours and be a companion piece to the movie they would make from the footage but RCA wouldn’t help fund the movie so he abandoned the movie part. He says they attempted to bring their film equipment into Carnegie but were threatened to have their arms broken if they did .
    Still, there is apparently much footage available from several shows during this tour (paper plates and all) and I too would be all over that should it be released.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  8. The late man

    The late man Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    It's getting pretty intense, and apparently the family comes to the rescue. But how can she be Dave AND Ray's niece if her name is "Davies", given that they only have sisters ? Are there any genealogists around here ?
     
  9. Scottsol

    Scottsol Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston, IL
    I’m one, but I can’t help since ,as you might guess, I’m only a wrangler of the Strauss clan.
     
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  10. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    :edthumbs:
    I wuz trying to fink of summut that gud.
     
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  11. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Missed the tweet from his niece (you got a direct link?) but it’s possible one of their sisters didn’t marry the dad and raised her as a single parent? I know that was less common in those days but it’s still a possibility.
     
  12. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    No new Mark post today so thought I’d squeeze in this Johnny Cash cover they did live today while it’s still roughly era appropriate. Note it’s another ‘Rose’ song, which can’t be an accident:

     
  13. The late man

    The late man Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    I thought I had included the link, but I haven't, and now I can't find it... It's a Michelle or Michele Davies, and there seems to be thousands of them on Twitter. But yes, your hypothesis could well be right!

    EDIT : here it is
    https://twitter.com/rebeccagwilson/status/1467322861186699266?s=20
     
  14. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    I like it! “Okay, fellas, let’s do it again.”
     
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  15. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I just skimmed through Dave’s autobiography, and all is explained on page 7:

    ‘around that time (his sister) Peg, who was a bit of a loner, would often go out dancing in the West End. She met a black guy called Billy and before she knew it she was pregnant. It was unthinkable to have an illegitimate baby at the time, so Peg and Billy made plans to get married. But Billy was in the country illegally and was deported to France (he was from French West Africa) . Peg gave birth to a little girl named Jacqueline Michelle, whom we called Jackie’.
     
  16. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    Thanks for that, as far as covers and "snippets" are concerned, it's really, really cool.

    As I understand it, we're wrapping up this whole "live hillbilly show-biz" period of time. The very idea of all this live footage of the Kinks lying around, starting with those 1971/1972 concerts (and then probably continuing with the Preservation, Soap Opera, Disgrace tours) is an extremely frustrating notion. Like @Martyj, I think what Ray attempted there – the rock band as a traveling carnival/circus, then as a traveling theater company – was brave, daring, different and visionary, which has always been a huge part of whatever this guy's been doing live, down to his Storyteller 2000's solo shows, except maybe in the arena/Arista years, when he half-jokingly ("give the people what they want") conformed to a certain preconceived idea of what a competent rock band was supposed to offer (and competent they certainly were).

    So yeah, like "Harri's on Tour 1974", it's really something that I'd love to see unearthed, the whole audio and video package : much maligned live experiments/experiences that we know were documented but were never made available for a number of (very bad) reasons and which would paint a much better historical picture of what these artists (and the seventies in general) were about. Bob being Dylan, he got some of it with the Rolling Thunder Revue restored footage in the Scorsese film. But Dylan being Bob, he managed to make that somewhat a missed opportunity (the stupid "mockumentary" aspect of it all). I hope the streaming (Netflix/Amazon/Hulu etc.) demand for music documentaries will make this possible. I bet it will. Even without mentioning Get Back's success and coverage, the 1972 Aretha Franklin footage that became the stunning Amazing Grace film three years ago is another strong argument for it. Hopefully the Kinks will follow suit. Fingers crossed…
     
  17. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    I wonder who was doing the threatening.
     
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  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    They have really violent ushers
     
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  19. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    :D Part of the robber-baron legacy?
     
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  20. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Looks like a professional writer made a vague Estima-te?
     
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  21. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    I guess the big family all chipped in to bring the girl up but it can't have been easy and i can only imagine how society treated Peg if Jacqueline looked like her dad!
     
  22. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Let's just say that they were told to "Get Back In Line".
     
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  23. ajsmith

    ajsmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Dave tells us later in the same paragraph:

    ‘It was considered a terrible scandal for a white English woman to have a black child, and while Ray and I thought nothing of it and treated her like a sister, Jackie suffered horribly when she went to school. Children were horribly cruel - and adults as well. I always felt very protective of that sweet, happy little girl as did my Mum, who was more a mother to her than Peg. One day Mum found out that Jackie had been abused by her kindergarten teacher. ‘That Fat Old Cow’ as Mum called her, had been locking Jackie in a darkened room. Mum went round the teachers house and nearly pulled the woman’s hair out. I remember hearing her say ‘Did I give her what for!’.
     
  24. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    History.

    stereo mix (5:20), recorded 1 Mar, 1973 at Morgan Studios, Willesden, London

    Went to the museum this morning
    To see if anybody was there
    On the way I met a clockwork soldier
    Who stopped me as I walked up the stairs

    I said can you show me the way
    To our national history museum
    I've got so many questions
    To ask all the people, about our history

    He said Son you must be crazy
    You better get out of here
    This is establishment territory
    The likes of us should never go near

    I said please won't you let me see
    Inside your mausoleum
    I've got so many questions to ask all the people
    About our history

    Alright, alright
    Alright, alright, alright
    Alright, alright
    Alright, alright, alright

    I walked past the dummies in armour
    Past the statues and the heraldry
    I walked past the maps and the manuscripts
    Into antiquity

    And then I saw King Arthur
    He was waving his sword at me
    Shouting hey son come see, join our party
    See some history

    Then a sight lay before me
    I could hardly believe my eyes
    Lord Nelson, Queen Victoria, King Henry and Thomas Moore
    Were dancing around on the floor

    I hope I get some of the answers
    To all of my inquiries
    And I hope I find out who's responsible
    For all of our history

    Richard III stood laughing
    While King Canute sat drying his feet
    And Cromwell shook hands with Boadicea
    While Dr. Johnson and Queen Bess danced cheek to cheek

    Newton sat writing a poem
    And Shakespeare sat writing a play
    I tried to have look to see what he wrote in his book
    But he just turned his back and walked away

    I didn't get any answers
    And it's still a mystery
    What became of all of the people
    That vanished in history

    Alright, alright
    Alright, alright, alright
    Alright, alright
    Alright, alright, alright

    History

    And it keeps on calling me
    Through the cobwebs and catacombs
    and dusty old tombs
    Surrounding our history

    History

    Written by: Raymond Douglas Davies
    Published by: Davray Music Ltd.

    And the tradition of really good songs being left on the scrapheap continues.

    This is a really interesting lyric, that leans towards surrealism.
    Ray starts by wanting to visit the Museum to find out about history, and the third verse is a very interesting one. Ray is told after asking where he needs to go to find the museum of history
    He said Son you must be crazy
    You better get out of here
    This is establishment territory
    The likes of us should never go near
    I would love to know exactly what was on Ray's mind here. I can only assume he is sort of subversively referencing that history isn't always what we're told, and so it's best not to look too deeply as the powers that be won't like it.... not sure, but it is an interesting verse.

    The second verse starts with a picture of walking passed all the inanimate objects from the past, and into antiquity itself.
    First we pass the King Arthur, and obviously there is a bit of a nod to the album Arthur, particularly since many thought that was the Arthur in question. King Arthur is a really interesting one, because there are many old texts that would suggest that this is a real person from English history, but modern historians suggest Arthur is merely a Myth, and it's very possible that this is due to Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae (History Of The Kings Of Britain), which is seen to be quite fanciful and imaginative .....
    Lord Nelson - 1758-1805, who died at the Battle Of Trafalgar
    Queen Victoria - 1819-1901, I think we know this lady quite well.
    King Henry - this is a difficult one in some ways, as there were 8 Henry's of England, but I assume it would be the very famous Henry the Eighth 1509-1547
    Thomas Moore - 1779-1852, the Irish writer and poet
    Richard III - 1452-1485
    King Canute - Cnut the Great - 1006-1038
    Probably Oliver Cromwell - 1599-1658
    Boadicea - dies 60/61 AD - led an uprising against the Roman Empire
    Probably Samuel Johnson - 1709-1784, poet, playwright, essayist, moralist ... if it had to do with writing, he did it.
    Queen Bess, would likely be Elizabeth I - 1533-1603
    Isaac Newton - 1642-1727
    Shakespeare - baptised 1564-1616 .... and Shakey is another writer
    That is a lot of references to people in UK history, and I couldn't possibly do justice to knocking out quick references. Thankfully most are very famous outside of England, so we shouldn't get too lost :)

    After we walk past the inanimate objects we come across all these famous people from UK history, and the way he writes this section reminds me a fair bit of some of Dylan's surreal verse, that references well known people/characters, Desolation Row being the one that instantly comes to mind.
    He interacts with these people in basic ways, and as we get to the second last verse, it seems like this was a variation on the idea for Celluloid Heroes to some degree.... What became of all these people?

    It actually would have been interesting on the album as a contrast to Celluloid Heroes.... We have the celluloid heroes on film and in pictures, but these famous historical figures, we only have texts passed down through the ages, and the further away we get from them, the less people believe the information, or so it seems.

    Anyway, I really like the lyric, it paints a picture in my mind, and sometimes that's all it has to do to work for me., and it could certainly create a wealth of study and research if we followed up all the threads sitting there waiting for us ..... and perhaps that was Ray's idea in the first place, to try and trigger people to look deeper at their history and heritage?

    I also really like the easy flowing music here too.
    We open up with the guitar, bass and drums setting and nice back and forth groove, and as we go the piano comes in, and we get some nice dynamics, but subtle.... this song has a lot of subtleties.
    The music does vaguely remind me of something, but nothing is coming to mind.

    I really like this arrangement, and I think this song could easily have fit on the album, but it is probably too far away from the vague theme the album has....

    Anyway, another great song just pops up out of the blue.....

    Nice work Ray.

    (I put links to each of those folks wiki pages, for a quick reference, for anyone wanting to check out someone they aren't familiar with or whatever.)

     
  25. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    "History"

    Heard this one for the first time last night. I thought the opening line sounded familiar, then I realised that it's very similar to the opening line of "Did Ya".

    But what a sensational track! If you wanted a track to illustrate the full sweep of beauty of early 70s Kinks, this would be a very good shout. Sonically it would fit on Lola, but was probably too late and wouldn't have fitted within the theme. It wouldn't have fitted within Muswell at all, and again it wouldn't sit within the theme of Showbiz. It had probably already been discarded by the time Preservation came along, and its overarching theme of a trip through history was kind of superseded by "Education". So this fantastic song ended up without a home - what a waste of a song that other bands would have given their right arm for!

    It's melodically beautiful - to the extent that it sends shivers down the spine, and John Gosling's piano fills raise it still further. No horns, no theatricality - just straight ahead Kinks brilliance. If anything, it could have been used as a b-side to "Celluloid Heroes" - what a 7" that would have been!
     

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