That's very interesting. I’ve always listened with modern ears (starting in 1991) but reading your comments, it appears the lyrics are just as much about the vanity of things as they are about their nostalgic value. It’s a half-reminiscence/ half “15 minutes of fame” kind of song. Indeed, a lot of those people went into oblivion. I'd say Mary Quant is the only actual name anyone who didn’t actively live those times would’ve known after just a few years (that's the power of beautiful legs). Most of us still know mods & rockers, teddy boys, Swinging London, the Angry Young Men, but not by their names, mind you… Sung by the ultimate bystander (the Tramp), it’s even more powerful and sadly ironic: he was already there when it all happened – who knows, maybe he even was an active part of it – and he’s still around in the very same streets while they’ve all vanished and become "face in the crowds" again. How futile and volatile is fame! Your posts really made the song much deeper in my view.
It helps if you're British. As often with Kinks songs. "Charlie Bubbles" is well worth watching, by the way!
Today’s posts have been superb. Thoughtful and stellar writing by all. Where Are They Now: This is the first song that I placed on my playlist. I fell hard for Celluloid Heroes and this look-back-and-rattle-off-names-and-movements lyric is in the same vein. Lyrically, I must say I didn’t recognize anyone…but I got the gist. Beyond that, it’s the music that tugs at the heart. A really good song. When I first heard McCartney’s song, ‘Teddy Boy’ back in 1970 I had no idea what he was talking about. And hated the song. I was enlightened when I watched the film ‘Quadrophenia’ years later. “Ahh! So that’s what a teddy boy is.” ‘Quadrophenia’ has been the image that pops into my mind when reading or hearing about mods and rockers. But that’s been supplanted by the more recent television series ‘The Rebel.’ (`The Rebel' is a comedy-drama inspired by Andrew Birch's long-running cartoon strip in Oldie Magazine. Actor Simon Callows plays the lead role as 70-year-old Henry Palmer. Spending his retirement in Brighton, Henry is more than meets the eye. The elderly gentleman's vibrant youth lives on just under the surface, a Mod in the 1960s Henry spent more time smashing deckchairs than sitting on them, back then.)
"Where Are They Now": a very lovely song about figures from the recent past of 60s England, who were once hailed & lauded, but are now almost forgotten. I figured out some of the people in the song when I first heard it in the late 1970s, being a budding History Major, w/an interest in English history, but it took me a while to get them all. It was perhaps Ray's genius to not go to the obivious in compiling his list. Our Headmaster was perhaps a bit understated when he mentioned Christine Keeler only as a model & showgirl. She was the catalyst for the famed Profumo Scandal, which exposed the rotten underbelly of the English Establishment & helped bring down the Conservative Government of the time in 1963, along w/the satire boom. 1963 was quite the year in the UK, with the Profumo Scandal, the satire boom & Beatlemania all occurring at the same time. Avid stewedandkeefed mentioned the 1989 movie Scandal, which was about the Profumo Scandal & is worth a watch. I also recommend the soundtrack, which is a good digest of pre-Beatles 1960s English pop. Finally, in 1965, the photographer David Bailey produced a limited edition box of photographs that chronicled the cultural movers & shakers of Swinging London. There were Lennon & McCartney, the Kray Twins (Ray would include them in his future songs), as well as several of the people mentioned in "Where Are They Now", which is Ray's way in song what David Bailey did in photos.
Although I have heard if it, I have no idea what it was, aside from a political scandal. In an age where there are more political scandals than politicians it seems redundant lol Most of this stuff is before my time, so i don't pretend to be the full bottle on it.
Avid Zeki, there's a bit of difference between Teddy Boys & Rockers, the latter which you saw represented in Quadrophenia. Teddy Boys popped up around the mid 1950s and basically were lower class guys that wore clothes that were Edwardian in style, while the Rockers came a bit later on & rode motorcycles & wore leather. Both groups were fans of 1950s Rock 'n Roll & considered anything made after 1959 to be crap (maybe they were right? )
Where Are They Now? Hat tip to @Fortuleo and @croquetlawns here because this also made me think of and hum Johnny Thunder as I listened to this song over the past few weeks. I wonder if this was started as a rearrangement of that song as part of the original updated Preservation concept, but then re-worked into a new song with echoes of Johnny Thunder, one of the Teddy Boys who shows up on the next track... Or if this was designed as is, and just containing an homage to the original album. This also does seem married to Celluloid Heroes as well, as I am no music theorist or expert, but I think it has the same sort of falling melody at the end of the verse as it leads into the chorus, very similarly to Celluloid Heroes -- including the bit of a breakdown section focused more on just the vocal and piano, before the drums kick back in. The melodic pattern/feeling of ...and I wonder where they all are now at the end of the verse recalls ..their names are written in concrete. Thematically, I think it also calls back a similar feeling of nostalgia as Do You Remember Walter? did. I wonder what became of all the Rockers and the Mods. I hope they are making it and they've all got steady jobs Do these rockers and mods remember the old days, or would they have nothing more to say? Now that things have changed, are they fat and married and home in bed by half past eight now? Whatever they have done, rock & roll still lives on (whether it be in their memories, or just with a new crowd of faces that will be forgotten in another 5-10 years).
Where are They Now Can't say I had this reaction back in the day when I was chucking this album for not grabbing me the way Lola and Arthur did. But it very much describes my reaction now. Well said.
The first time I heard the song I thought of "Johnny Thunder", so, yes, it's a deliberate musical reference.
Well. This could be interesting: Kinks’ Dave Davies Confirms Memoir ‘Living on a Thin Line’ (ultimateclassicrock.com)
Ha...yeah, I also raised an eyebrow when I read this. Christine Keeler is just a model/showgirl the way Monica Lewinski is just an office assistant; there are reasons these people become famous, and it's not because of their occupations. But in fairness, Mark is upfront with the depth of his research for the context for a lot of this stuff. I think he is doing a remarkable job in his daily devotion to putting together all the back stories behind the songs. Bravo for Mark Winstanley!
Not sure I understand the context of your post in relation to the Kinks, or the Preservation album..... perhaps Sweet Lady Genevieve is what you're referencing? Either way, welcome to the forum, and feel free to talk about anything to do with the Kinks here, up to, and including the Preservation album, and at this stage, the songs on side one.
Where are they now? Not sure what to say after 2 listens at 4am so bear with me. Though clearly a cousin of Celluloid Heroes particularly lyric wise, the opening with vocal and piano have me recalling Sitting In My Hotel Room. Later we have Dave join in and to bring up the Who again there's a 3 chord rhythm that reminds me of one of the cuts from 1975's Who By Numbers. The song title reminds me also of a television programme where celebrities from yesteryear are tracked down and their moment in the sun briefly re-celebrated. A fine song with a more traditional structure than several we have already heard and as a result I feel easier to digest and analyse in the short term. As for some of the characters mentioned, Christine Keeler was also no stranger to prostitution and Ossie Clark was commissioned at their satanic majesties request to design the black and red outfit with Omega symbol infamously worn by Michael Phillip Jagger on the Stones 1969 USA Tour and at Altamont Speedway. Sadly Mr Clark would later take his own life.
Yes indeed, and she's one of the two the two best-known names in this song (the other is Quant). It amuses me seeing Keeler decribed as a 'showgirl' when she was in fact a high class prostitute who managed to sleep with both British and Russian political clients (hence the cold war scandal). The most famous photo of her is here. And it's worth the proverbial thousand words.
"Where Are They Now" Bravo to everyone's insightful posts today. I never paid full attention to all the names mentioned in the song. I was familiar with Keeler and Quant. Quant is mentioned in another song I love. "Sunny South Kensington" by Donovan, with the line "Jean-Paul Belmondo and-a Mary Quant got stoned to say the least". This is another fabulous song with many great lines. "And where are all the protest songs?" is even more relevant nowadays. Then we have a musical connection to "Johnny Thunder" which is brilliant leading into the next song where we find out where Johnny is. The last line even says "Rock and roll still lives on" which the next song proves when we "See Johnny Thunder sitting on his motorbike riding along the highway, rock and roll songs from the nineteen-fifties buzzing around in his brain." This is a beautiful piece of music that I think is even more poignant than "Celluloid Heroes". I love the swirling organ alongside the piano and Ray delivers another fantastic vocal. This is some top quality Kinks and we are 5 for 5 on this ridiculously underrated album. I am impressed with it more everyday thanks to all the thoughtful commentary on this thread.
This is more how I interpreted the song, since Ray is looking back only a few years at celebrities he paints as forgotten figures. "Fashion" is almost by definition a short-lived "here today, gone tomorrow" phenomenon. Obviously, as an American I don't know how well-remembered those people are in the UK, so it's interesting to hear how familiar or unfamiliar they are to the Brits here. I probably first heard of Christine Keeler in Al Stewart's "Post World War Two Blues" on Past, Present and Future (my second reference to that album within a week...I suppose I learned a lot of history from it!). Without an internet in the 70s, I don't remember how I researched to find out who she was...maybe she was in the encyclopedia! The line that stands out to me is "I hope they are making it and they've all got steady jobs"...sung by The Tramp, who is obviously not into steady jobs! And we know Ray did everything he could to avoid a "steady job." Sincere or irony? I tend to think the former. And yes, I caught the "Johnny Thunder" musical reference, but it makes me wonder why he didn't use it in the song about Johnny Thunder! Anyway, batting 5 for 5 on this album. I like a lot of Kinks songs, but some I like more than others, so they can't all make a "Kinks Favorites" playlist of 75 songs or however many. And I may want to be in the mood for a "musical" or concept piece to listen to "There's a Change in the Weather," which fits quite comfortably in that context, whereas "David Watts," "Nothin' in the World Can Stop Me Worryin'..." or even "Look a Little on the Sunny Side" are songs that I would usually enjoy hearing even out of context of their respective albums. I would more likely listen to Preservation Act 1 as a whole, unlike Kinda Kinks, for example. If that makes sense.
The thing about that famous photo for me is how the photographer was almost at pains to describe how awkward, unsexy and difficult the shoot actually was! IIRC tons of pretty ordinary shots were taken and it was extremely lucky in the end they got that iconic money shot. I don't think he was too complimentary of Miss Keeler and it wasn't because he was a prude.
I should point out that the writers mentioned in the song weren't forgotten by any means, but they'd transitioned from being 'angry young men' to being, perhaps, more establishment figures. John Osborne, in particular, was certainly still very well known - if not always celebrated! Keith Waterhouse even has a Kinks connection too as he was co-writer of the TV series, "Budgie", which Ray Davies supplied a theme song for (see earlier in the thread).
Thanks for that clarification. Then it's interesting that he includes "angry young men" who have mellowed with others of transient fame.
I don't think John Osborne ever mellowed, to be honest. Also I was going to mention that Osborne had acted in "Get Carter" a couple of years previously.
A brief interruption for the Avids as I just spotted this gold disc for sale on the forum. Disclaimer: Seller is not me or anyone I know of. FS MFSL GOLD : The Kinks - Kinks (You Really Got Me) & Kinda Kinks 2 Albums On One Gold UltraDisc II Lift-lock Case Included Sorry, no J-card VG+ / EXC
