Well, you have to have a sense of humour and you also root for the underdog (compared to the more well known bands of the era that it is natural to compare them with) without getting bitter because you know that your special band is so much better than at least two of the other three. Sales and other inconsequetial measurements of so-called excellence mean squat to us. There are other reasons of course. But I think that is one of the more obvious ones.
Due to some issues I had to ask @Orino to take over for me, quite early on, and he did a fantastic job. By the time I got back into it, I was somewhat disconnected... I'd been doing the thread guides, and putting the odd comment in, but I failed to get in a flow.... I rely on getting in a flow for everything... one of my weird quirks I don't understand..... and I did most of the thread, but I kind of missed the thread, almost like it never really happened... I always read 99% of the posts, I wasn't in a position to. It was terribly disappointing. Fortunately the folks there carried on regardless, and we made it home... but it was a big disappointment for me, I'm just glad it worked for others.
Dave was there, and his contributions are excellent, but I have my thoughts on that in tomorrow's post, so I won't double up (yet again lol) I love Dave's contributions in the Arista years... I don't really hear a change in style. From a guitarists perspective, it is more like he was let off the chain that had been on him, perhaps that makes him come across overzealous to some?.... but we'll get to all that. Yea, we have Sleepwalker in the morning
That's a really interesting question.... I wonder if the band's somewhat outside of the box career is a uniting factor in some way. For the most part, folks haven't taken others criticism of certain songs or albums to heart, and there seems to be a genuine want to get closer to the material, even if it has fallen outside of people's previous likes.... that makes a huge difference. Hopefully the Arista years will be the same
I prefer the Kinks really. I always liked some Who songs, and for the longest time I thought they were a singles band... and just had a compile. I ended up trying some albums, enjoying them, and ended up getting them all... I certainly do like the Who I think if I tried to nutshell it... generally Ray speaks to me more than Pete, but that is neither a criticism of Pete or the Who.
For me, there is no contest. The Who had seven albums up until 1975 and The Kinks were at fifteen. Not that quantity equals quality, but The Kinks quality during this time has been tremendous. Ray is on another level as a songwriter, in my opinion. I like The Who, but they don't have much that appeals to me after the 60s. They had a special blend of four different characters, but would they have been nearly as huge without Keith?
Well, I have to say, I enjoyed the RCA era much more than I thought I would. Although I think the description patchy, as pointed out by several, applies. Overall I think Muswell is probably the most consistently good, although for whatever reason it has never particularly grabbed me. I remain a fan of Schoolboys and somewhat surprised by it lukewarm reception here. Preservation Act 1 has some real knockout tunes, but patchy applies. Next I’ll put EISB and Act 2 on about a par. A few good to great songs on each, but, patchy. And lastly, Soap Opera. Well, I think this thread has me moving it away from my least favourite Kinks album. There’s actually quite a bit of good stuff on there. I guess we’ll see once we get to Think Visual, UKJive, and Phobia. As for Sleepwalker, one thing I will put out there before we get into it, is that it’s a Kinks album with a good cover.
You may have inadvertently summed up the differences between the songwriters and why this thread has grown the way it has with it's extremely loyal if not enormous numbers.
Very interesting reading the final thoughts of everyone and their opinions on the RCA era. Pleasantly surprised to see a mostly positive appraisal of these albums as I am used to the usual casual dismissal of these from those that have probably not even listened to them but just went with the uninformed opinion that they sucked. That said, I too am a little surprised at the sort of lukewarm response to Schoolboys In Disgrace but also the apparent upgrade of A Soap Opera. Not disappointed, just surprised based on what I’ve seen and read over the years. I can see and understand all sides of these opinions. Seems most folks need to do what we have done here. Take a look at this era and this band in general with fresh ears and eyes. I think this encapsulates the Kinks in general. There is no general consensus of what is their best or worst album. There are so many styles and approaches with their albums and eras that this is likely the reason they did not appeal and endure in the general public’s eye as other bands of the era. They could never be pigeonholed. It’s the general public’s loss. In his prime, Ray was so far ahead of the game in writing and in presentation that it cost them commercially in a sense. Good thing he/they were from the 60s/70s era. An artist today has no chance to develop if their sales are as bad as the Kinks sales were during their late 60s prime and early 70s wilderness years. Astonishing and shocking in hindsight to see the chart positions of their singles and albums on both sides of the Atlantic during this era. The 70s could even be considered more confounding with seemingly even lesser material and bands/artists dominating the charts than the late 60s. I’m saying in the late 60s the Kinks had more legitimate competition than the mid 70s but they still could not crack the charts, Lola single excepted. Anyway, great thread and another shout out to everyone here respecting each other whether we agree or disagree on certain songs or albums. So many threads here devolve into personal insults when disagreements come up but we have avoided that here thankfully. Arista era and Sleepwalker you’re up next. I will say I think this is a very underrated album with several outstanding songs so will be interesting to read everyone’s thoughts as we go through it.
No More Looking Back One of the Kinks singles which is rooted in its time. It sounds 1975, and for some reason, I've never grown to love it. I can hear it's a well-made piece of music, but there's something I can't love. Like, yes, love no. I think it's Ray's vocals where he seems to be straining his voice. Maybe it gets too horny towards the end. I'm looking forward to no more looking back on these 'concept years'. Ready for change. Finale Not worth the effort! At least it reminds you to start getting ready to get up to lift the needle from the record. Quite a short album I feel, and this minute tagged on doesn't help. Being tied to the theme seemingly stopped us getting another real song or two. The well must have been fairly dry, you'd guess, due to there being no bonus tracks made available for the CD.
The RCA Years My order of preference at the end of this deep dive. Preservation Act One Muswell Hillbillies The Kinks Present Schoolboys In Disgrace Everybody's In Showbiz Preservation Act Two The Kinks Present A Soap Opera
My RCA order may be a bit different... A Soap Opera Preservation Act 1 Everybody's in Showbiz (studio album) Preservation Act 2 Muswell Hillbillies Schoolboys Everybody's in Showbiz (live album)
Kinks Greatest - Celluloid Heroes A strange choice of songs to me on the original LP. I'd have gone with the ones below. Six tracks a side, and I've not considered the length of the tracks. Just my favourites of the era - but also ones which can live outside their concept album! Supersonic Rocket Ship The Hard Way Sweet Lady Genevieve Sitting In My Hotel Underneath The Neon Sign (A) Face In The Crowd Muswell Hillbilly Sitting in The Midday Sun Have A Cuppa Tea Oklahoma USA You Don't Know My Name Celluloid Heroes
The Kinks Move To Arista Records. I guess first I have to state where I stand on something.... AOR - to me this is an empty term. I am an album listener, so any rock album I listen to is Album Oriented Rock. So to me The Kinks were AOR from about Kontroversy onward, and the term means nothing to me. Virtually every rock album released after Dylans' Highway 61 Revisited is album oriented rock to me... not sure how it couldn't be. To go to the start of how we got here.... When the Kinks signed with RCA, RCA thought they were getting the band from 1965, and as all of us would acknowledge, the band from 1975 was a very different machine at this point in time. It isn't that they weren't the Kinks anymore, or that they didn't sound like the Kinks anymore, it is more that over the ten year period from 1965 to leaving RCA after the Schoolboys in Disgrace album, the band had dipped their toes in just about everything that a rock band could, without playing full blown jazz, or writing baroque or classical pieces. The band were a rock band from the word go, and after muddling with some rhythm and blues tracks, a young fella named Ray Davies started to write his own songs, and his brother tried experiments on his guitar and amp to get different sounds .... and as we know the band moved into being one of, if not the best band of the sixties rock movement. Unfortunately for RCA, the band were long passed writing You Really Got Me, Tired Of Waiting For You, Dedicated Follower Of Fashion and the like. The band had been experimenting with thematic albums since Face To Face in 1966, and to some degree every album afterwards up to and including Schoolboys in Disgrace was based loosely, or tightly, depending on your personal perspective, around themes. There were even some full blown concept albums, and RCA ended up getting a lot of those, and that wasn't really what they wanted. As we have discussed the band had been through just about everything that one could want from a rock band. They laid the foundations for heavy metal and punk in their very early days, then turned their back on that to move into character songs that took on aspects of folk and music hall. They experimented with raga styles before any other rock band I am aware of. They dipped their toe in the water of psychedelia on the Face To Face album in 1965 .... and by the time other bands were messing around with that stuff, the Kinks had moved on to Something Else . Ray had an inbuilt need to try things out, and the band went along with him. Sure we know that the band's internal relationships could be quite volatile, but that had more to do with the personalities than the music. From 65 - 69 The Kinks released some of the most challenging and brilliant music of the late sixties, and they did it while being completely counter to all the other music scenes going around ... and I don't think it was intentional... it just was. After their US ban was finally lifted the band made their last Pye albums with Lola and Percy, and the band had again changed tack. They even had a couple of hits. It is certainly possible that Ray intentionally wrote those tracks as hits in order to get another contract, as the Pye contract was about to be over. Upon getting signed to RCA the band made Muswell Hillbillies and dived headlong into an Americana sort of styling and who knows what the RCA execs had to think about that. This was followed by a series of somewhat concept albums that didn't really do very well in the commercial market, but were accompanied by very successful concerts, with Ray having come out of his sixties shell and starting to really perform on stage. To some degree it is very likely that Ray's new found stage persona played a part in developing the concept albums, that became somewhat concept concerts, and from all reports the concerts went over as a hit, even when the albums didn't really seem to be selling very well. As we have seen, Preservation was the first big idea that turned into a concert show/play, and it has been maligned for many a year, but the concerts seem to generally get positive feedback.... Soap Opera and Schoolboys in Disgrace had no hit singles, but based on the concert tours supporting them, and playing the albums in full, both albums charted quite well in the US, 51 and 45 respectively .... but by this stage RCA had had enough, and after Schoolboys the contract was done, and the band needed to find a new home..... and on the back of rising interest, but not a mass amount of success. Even though the concert tours had been quite successful. In Ray's opinion the show albums and concerts were necessary for the survival of the band as a band. In Ray's opinion the band had always been seen as a bit sloppy, and the changes forced on the band by those three theatrical shows had forced them to tighten up their live game. Ray “Being in a band is like living with someone for a long time,” he told the ‘Los Angeles Times.’ “They become invisible, you don’t talk to them, you rely on telepathy. That’s how it got with us. They had a reputation for being a bit sloppy onstage and it made them tighten up. We all needed to do something different.” Though those shows helped keep the band focused and tighten up, Ray also says “There was a lot of conflict in the shows we did, from my brother [Dave Davies] first of all; because he likes to play rock & roll and he likes to play loud.” There was also tension between RCA and the band because of the concept albums: “When we went there,” Davies admits, “they thought they were buying people from 1965, and I wanted to go on and change.” Davies says his only decision in 1976 was moving to Arista. “Anyone I’ve talked to at Arista, I’ve told them I was not going to do a show, just an album,” he says of the move. “It’s good, because we haven’t used any extra people, just the basic band. And it’s good. ‘Soap Opera’ was bigger than the Kinks. The show was the thing and we were just the players. Now we want to be seen as the band and play the music, which is understandable.” “By choice, I think I’ve been a bit of an outsider from rock & roll,” says Ray Davies, quietly ordering up a hot chocolate from room service. “In the last five years I’ve tried to go out and talk to people, and because I’ve done that, my songs have gotten more withdrawn. I think I’m going on a level now — compromising and bouncing in and out — so I think the two are going to come together. “But I’ll always have to work. I’ll never be a rich person. I’ll always have something that I’m unhappy about. I don’t think I’m going to be happy.” (Ray's quotes here taken from a Rolling stone article from March 1977 Ray Davies Gets His Kinks Out ) Clive Davis was squeezed out of Columbia Records in some sort of scandal in 1973 and launched Arista the following year. Starting with what many consider to be lightweight artists like the Bay City Rollers and Barry Manilow, he went on to sign Patti Smith and Lou Reed, and in 1976 The Kinks were looking for a new label .... and Clive was there. Now it is known that Clive Davis had stated that he didn't want concept albums, and it is also known that he wanted Ray to get back to writing songs that could become hits, but I think in light of all the things we have seen up to this point, it seems like Ray was also ready to adjust his way of doing things anyway. Ray had a lot of things to consider as the primary writer and leader of the band. First of all his brother is an excellent rock guitarist, who had spent the majority of the last four years in a sort of cameo role in the band. Dave wanted to play some rock music, and I get the impression from the way the sands shifted with the band from Soap Opera to Schoolboys, that Ray wanted to give Dave a bit more space to do his thing. It isn't that Dave wasn't present during the RCA years, just that the material was less oriented towards big rock guitars. In many ways the journey into musical theatre had done Dave a world of good, because he was put into a position of working more with textures and colours, somewhat like Alex Lifeson in Rush when the band moved into the mid eighties and changed their sound to be heavily keyboard driven. Alex moved into the world of textural guitar, and I see Dave's part in the RCA years as being very similar to that in some ways. Also there was the newfound live success. The band had started to become a draw in the seventies due to Ray's unusual new stage presence, and character acting and clowning. He had developed into a good front man for the band, rather than just being the singer, and this also creates thoughts in the mind of a band leader. So, Ok, now we are a bit of a hit live, it would pay to have some material that more naturally transcends the recorded and live music world. Whether we want to see this as being arena rock or not is up to the individual, but essentially arena rock just means bands that are big enough to draw a crowd to an arena ... in my world lol So the band has a new label and a refreshed attitude and they start to get ready to do a new album....... which we will look at next. The Arista years seem to be a dividing line for some people. To many it seems like the band "sold out"? .... I'm not really sure that I view it that way. As a writer and having had to face critics, it can be quite difficult to shake off constant criticism for what you have done and are doing. As we see, the band had covered a rather broad spectrum of material over the twelve years they had been in the rock world, but they had moved away from their roots in a sense. Short punchy songs that grabbed the listeners attention. The early pounding rock, moved into some more thoughtful and varied tracks and the success of the band's singles had never really been in question, but the singles had stood alone in a lot of instances, and they were certainly well crafted songs, and the majority of folks loved it.... to the point where these days, many people still consider the band a singles band ... which is bewildering to me, but I can understand why. So when the band hit the Arista years Ray has decided to streamline the band, back to its basics, and to a certain degree streamline the music also. It is a logical move, and it also opens the door for easier and much more accessible touring and concerts, and I am sure all these things were going through Ray's ever thoughtful mind. For many of the sixties fans, it may be almost an abomination that this period of the band's career is probably their most successful, but it is actually a closer version to the Kinks sixties material than the RCA years was. The band making tight thoughtful albums, with songs that stand alone, even if there was some underlying theme. The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society is probably the most legendary album the band made.... it didn't really sell, but it captured the imaginations of an awful lot of people. It is almost a musicians album in a sense, as it seems that it is musicians that appreciated it most at the time, and everyone else came along later by Word Of Mouth... I know I did. Village Green Preservation Society is a thematic album with tight well written songs..... in much the same way Low Budget is a thematic album with tight well written songs, but it is over a decade later in an era that sounds completely different. It would be kind of crazy if the Kinks still sounded the same in 1979. In fact if the band still sounded the same in 1979, it is doubtful anyone would have been interested at all, because we would have heard it all before. The ever changing face of the Kinks is one of the things that I find most appealing about them. I get bored, generally, with band's that have a thing they do, and they just do it to death, and it loses its interest and vitality. The Kinks have wandered many a road, and this continues during the Arista years. As much as some suggest we are now in a zone where the Kinks are " ...." Sleepwalker is very different to Misfits, is very different to Low Budget, is very different to .... etc etc To some degree the sound of the band changes somewhat, but that always happens over a long period of time. The band still sounds like the Kinks, and although there is a vein of rock that runs through these albums, that is certainly not all they have to offer. We may not have full on Music Hall numbers as we had in the past, but they had done that more than any other band I know of, and here we get other variances that are just as quirky and just as Kinks-like. Sleepwalker plays it fairly straight, and as the first album back to basics, that is a pretty logical thing to do. The thing is though the songs are as strong as ever, and still very varied. Once we get to Misfits, the band does a lot of very quirky Kinksian things that I'm pretty sure very few bands on the then current scene would have even considered, and for the most part it works really well, but we'll get to those tracks soon enough. How many bands making an album like Low Budget would put a song like In A Space on it? even the more straight sort of rock tracks are very different than other bands would generally do. Fear not Kinks fans, the band still has plenty of quirks coming up in this run of albums, and I really hope everyone enjoys running through them with us, as they are definitely worth revisiting.
Sleepwalker Studio album by the Kinks Released 12 February 1977 (US)[1] 26 February 1977 (UK) Recorded 1 July – 20 December 1976 Studio Konk Studios, London Genre Rock Length 40:10 Label Arista Producer Ray Davies Side 1 1. Life On The Road stereo mix (5:01), recorded 1, 2 Oct, 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London 2. Mr. Big Man stereo mix, recorded 17-20 Dec, 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London 3. Sleepwalker stereo mix (4:01), recorded 22-30 Sep, 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London 4. Brother stereo mix, recorded 1-9 Jul, 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London Side 2 1. Juke Box Music stereo mix, recorded 1, 2 Oct., 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London 2. Sleepless Night stereo mix, recorded 22-30 Sep, 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London 3. Stormy Sky stereo mix, recorded 1, 2 Oct., 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London 4. Full Moon stereo mix, recorded 15-17 Sep, 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London 5. Life Goes On stereo mix (5:01), recorded 22-30 Sep, 1976 at Konk Studios, Hornsey, London Liner Notes: Mick Avory: drums, percussion Dave Davies: lead guitar, lead and backing vocals Ray Davies: vocals, guitar and keyboards John Dalton: bass guitar John Gosling: keyboards and backing vocals Andy Pyle: bass on "Mr. Big Man" Photography: James Wedge Design: Bob Heimall Art Direction: John Dyer Engineered by Roger Wake Mastered by Bob Ludwig Recorded at Konk Studios, Autum and Winter 1976 Written, produced and arranged by R.D. Davies Sleepwalker ends up becoming the highest US charting Kinks album so far, reaching number 21 on the Billboard chart. Just as Schoolboys had ended with a definitive mission statement/statement of intent in No More Looking Back, Sleepwalker starts with a definitive Mission statement/statement of intent "I'm livin' my life as I chose, I'm livin' my life on the road, Give me life on the road" This seems in many ways to sum up where the band are at this point in time, and it sets the stage for them to launch into the world among the punk and new wave bands as a genuine rock band with no pretension, no fancy stories, just some solid rock and roll music that will help them get to a place where they lock their name in the history books forever. Another thing to remember is that the UK had seemed to have little interest in the Kinks since about 1967, and punk didn't really have much effect in the US... certainly there were bands people knew of, and knowledge of the scene, but punk wasn't really setting the charts on fire or particularly effecting the market in the way it did in the UK. As much as we love the band's sixties material, the broader population only knew a couple of songs by this stage, and the thrust that started with this album will open up the door for thousands of people who have no real idea who they are, to discover them, and take the journey back, as I suspect a lot of us did. Much like Genesis in the eighties. In many ways this album was somewhat of a last ditch attempt to relaunch the band as a viable band that people would listen to. They had fallen off the face of the earth in many ways, except for the concerts, which were still fairly small scale, and not in the premier venues, and they weren't ready to be a nostalgia act. Ray wrote somewhere around thirty songs for this album, and a few showed up on Misfits the following year. I believe they tried out/recorded somewhere around twenty tracks, and the album ended up with nine. The cd reissue has four extra tracks and I reckon they are worth a listen too.... and of course we will be looking at those after the main album. Two songs the band tried out, but ended up on Misfits were Hay Fever and Black Messiah .... and it seems odd they made that album as they are the weakest songs on there in my opinion. In a Foreign Land made it onto Misfits and it's a corker. Prince Of The Punks and Artificial Light ended up as b-sides. The Poseur was rejected, but ended up on the cd reissue. Some of the rejected songs were Power Of Gold, Stagefright, Restless, Child Bride, Everything Is Alright, One Woman Man, Back To 64/Decade, Lazy Day, Elevator Man (which ended up on the Waterloo Sunset 94 EP) and On The Outside (which made the cd reissue) So the band had plenty to choose from, which is normally the best way to put an album together. Father Christmas was recorded in these sessions and was released as a stand alone single. Sessions began in May 1976. Throughout July 76 the band recorded a lot of tracks, but most were rejected. Then in September more songs were recorded. During the September sessions John Dalton decided to leave the band, stating that his lack of family time, stresses of the road and low pay were his reasons for leaving. Ex-Blodwyn Pig bassist Andy Pyle came in on the bass, and in December the band recorded the final song for the album, Mr Big Man, which ended up replacing In A Foreign Land on the final album, and is the only track that Pyle actually plays on, on the album. One thing that helped the Sleepwalker album was the fact that FM radio programmers in the US picked up the album, and it was the first time in a while that that had happened. This led to the band touring the US and being able to play bigger and better venues. The Kinks appeared on television’s Midnight Special, The Mike Douglas Show and other programs, and word spread that this band was a lot of fun to see live. Sleepwalker kept selling to teenagers who barely remembered the Kinks of the previous decade, or thought they were a new band. Here is part of the appearance on the Mike Douglas Show For a rough idea of the type of setlist they had for the US tour Dec 6 Westchester Theatre, New York Sleepwalker Life on the Road Stormy Sky Rush Hour Blues Tired of Waiting for You A Well Respected Man Alcohol Sunny Afternoon All Day and All of the Night Get Back in Line Celluloid Heroes Dead End Street The Hard Way Education Full Moon Slum Kids Waterloo Sunset Lola Juke Box Music Encore: Father Christmas You Really Got Me After a successful US tour the band returned to play two shows at the Rainbow Theatre in London. Dec 23 Little Queenie Beautiful Delilah Louie Louie Life on the Road Tired of Waiting for You A Well Respected Man Death of a Clown Dedicated Follower of Fashion Sunny Afternoon Dead End Street Waterloo Sunset All Day and All of the Night Victoria Rush Hour Blues Slum Kids Celluloid Heroes Get Back in Line The Hard Way Education Alcohol Skin and Bone Dem Bones Sleepwalker Lola Father Christmas You Really Got Me Juke Box Music Dec 24 Juke Box Music Sleepwalker Life on the Road A Well Respected Man Dedicated Follower of Fashion Death of a Clown Sunny Afternoon Waterloo Sunset All Day and All of the Night Slum Kids Celluloid Heroes Get Back in Line The Hard Way Lola Alcohol Skin and Bone Dem Bones Father Christmas You Really Got Me Sleepwalker took me a couple of listens to totally sink in, but much like the rest of the Kinks catalog, I have found the more I hear this album the more I like it. For me we have a set of very strong songs, and there are certainly a couple of standouts that deserve to be included in the Kinks Klassics. For me this has slid up into the top tier of Kinks albums.... It certainly has a different sound about it, in terms of production, but the songs are unmistakably Ray Davies songs, and the band is unmistakably the Kinks. So as per usual, please let us know what your current mindset is towards this album. When did you first hear it? What did you think then? What do you think now? All that kind of stuff, and we'll see where we end up at the end.
I like this album cover... it is quite interesting too, although it may initially give the wrong impression to those familiar with the RCA years It's like on the cover Ray, with white theatrical face paint on, is shying away from that image. Then on the back cover he is just Ray as a normal person, but somewhat covering his face, as if not wanting to fully reveal himself. The inner sleeve has the band, just looking like a rock band, with somewhat dour looks on their faces, as if they really mean business
Ranking the RC-A off theses records as we speak. Very easy. But also way more difficult than I thought. Yeah, yeah. Classic Gar-speak. But I belive in contradiction. First couple on the podium are pretty obvious but then comes the hard part. I'm also mildly hungover, so bear with me, guys n dolls. Winner is... 1. Muswell Hillbillies -for all the talk in our little safespace here about this and that album or song that we may not enjoy that much not being Kinksian in style, well, MH isn't either. Opening with one of my favorite songs of theirs, it soon went off to stranaange places. Like a older cousin of the Faces in places. Just as drunk, but with age comes the ability to handle your buzz better. The lyrics are both nostalgic and . M Blah blah blah. Train of thought went off the tracks and I didn't bother to finish the post which I started a couple of hours ago. In other njus: finally Sleepwalker!!! Thank you, higher powers! And Mark Great post about the switch to Arista. Enjoyed the reference to Lerxt's playing. Texturing is indeed the correct term.
