The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Yeah, well according to Hinman anyway.
     
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  2. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Bleak Misfire

    Particularly as this was a single does anyone know of it being criticized upon release in the music press for its lyrics?

    Only known of it for a few years and none of it's back (black?) story until several pages upthread.

    Whilst the music's nothing brilliant it is enjoyable and offers some needed contrast from the other numbers.

    Lyrically the title caught my eye though after 2 verses I zoned out, distracted by music if not also Ray's accent, sweet words and a cool, collective band sound!

    I heard Ray cannily challenge his fans perceptions of the Lord and believed Ray had written another winning clever lyric and never looked closely at the rest of the words.

    Mark was right in that Ray was clumsy and at times ambiguous in just what from here on in he was actually trying to say and I had blindly given him the benefit of any doubt due his known Kharactor, though listening closely now I find the words as confusing as our headmaster's comments of his amorous attentions or otherwise prose.

    Seems all well meaning but a Misfit.
     
  3. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    Black Messiah
    One of the weaker songs on the album regardless of how one takes the lyrics. Musically it is kind of boring.
     
  4. ThereOnceWasANote

    ThereOnceWasANote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape May, NJ
    Ray Davies on sonwriting from the 45th anniversary of Sleepwalker Redbeard interview:

    "I've had character songs like Celluloid Heroes I could be 90 years old when I'm singing that so it wouldn't be embarrassed by seeing it because that's kind of ageless."

    "...finding your character I know it sounds strange but if it's from another person writing a song in singing is like discovering another person on your way inside that person I don't think it's a difference between being a singer and say a being a ballet dancer or or an actor you find your way into the role and as soon as you do you become absorbed by that character. It becomes easier to sing it or dance it or act it. That's what it is finding my way inside the song."
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  5. ThereOnceWasANote

    ThereOnceWasANote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape May, NJ
    Misfits

    Here's what Ray had to say in the Redbeard interview audio clips about the song, its creation, his somgwriting, and a bit about the album:

    "We were rehearsing in an old church hall near Konk Studios. I got the drummer playing this stuff. I said play this back beat Mick and this keyboard part John then I came out with the lyrics of Misfits on the spot though it had been in the back of my head for 3 or 4 months. I was researching it, it was in my head and I had made a few notes but I didn't really write it until I got there with the band.

    The whole record what's its a feeling of somebody who had made himself an outcast and didn't want to fit in where he was at, where somebody was thinking about getting out of relationship or out of a living environment so that maybe the thread on that record.

    So I do all this before I write the songs and maybe I sense its the time to do it. So when I look back on all these songs now even though I moved on a written them for other characters they do mirror what my life was about that time. It's quite interesting.

    There's nothing clever in the song really what I like about it is it sets up images the lyrics set up images I remember writing thinking about that song.

    At the time I was I was going to pubs a lot, not to drink a lot, but socially because a friend of mine was in Monty Python and he used to live nearby and a few writers (hacks we call them in England) I used to meet with these guys and talk.

    They were all Misfits in their own way. I think that's why people go to pubs in England, and there was one guy in particular who I used to watch and he used to go out and he used to sleep in the Hedge you know in a ditch and the next day he would come in the bar and he'd look great.

    I'd be like so where have you been he said, "oh I slept in the field last night" he didn't actually say that but that's what he'd done. And again seeing these people picking up on that is what set the idea in my head and it's a lot of me in that.

    There's a lot of me that doesn't exploit who I am that doesn't go all the way I just become it in my head. I write the song then I disappear somewhere else."
     
  6. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    “Black Messiah”

    Obviously, Ray thought this song was much more clever than it comes across. C’mon Ray, you have to be more clear about your intentions when you sing a song about racial relations. As it is, it’s hard to tell what side of the fence his lyrics are on. I do believe he had good intentions, but it’s a bit lazy and hard to decipher.

    The music is great with the Dixieland horns mixing with a reggae influence. Ray’s accent can be a bit much when he sings “They knock me down 'cause they brown and I white”. For me, this is the most cringe worthy section of the song. It’s too bad because there is a good song and even a good message inside of these lyrics, but there is too much carelessness with some of the words along with the accent. He must have known it was a song that would make people uncomfortable. I have to give him some credit for having the guts to put this out as a single. I do not think Ray is a racist and I also don’t think he would have ever released this song if he thought it would have people accusing him of racism. Whatever he was trying to say, I think he failed to make it clear. I would love to hear what he has to say about this song. There must be an interview where someone asks him about it.

    It also works much better on the second side and not as the third song after the light and silly “Hay Fever”. So, I get where this UK track listing is a mess. That simple one song switch with “Live Life” as the third track makes a world of difference.
     
  7. pantofis

    pantofis Senior Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Black Messiah

    Musically, this is quite entertaining, even if again it lacks a Kinks-level melody. Third track in a row without a good melody... But at least it's something different and so far the album is a lot more colourful than the last one. This album seems also be the last one with that kind of high vocals, before Ray settled into that gruff, shouty voice.

    The lyrics, I guess these were different times regarding PC. Then again Ray was always knowing what he was doing. He seemed to really enjoy throwing highly controversial ideas around fully aware they would probably tick some people off. And he seemed to know that somehow he could get away with it by putting on a smile as he does on that track. Just wait till we get to "Art Lover"...
     
  8. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I forgot to post the single mix...
    When I had a closer listen I found it bewildering that those lyrics were the ones removed
     
  9. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Not to get ahead of ourselves, but I think ‘Art Lover’ succeeds as a character song dealing with a highly charged, controversial subject in a way that ‘Black Messiah’ completely fails.
     
  10. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    OMG! I had to press stop before anyone caught me listening to this.
     
  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I couldn't find the single mix.... well not the one on the Misfits extended album.

    If someone can, feel free to post it... the day's getting away
     
  12. ThereOnceWasANote

    ThereOnceWasANote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape May, NJ
    Ray really walks a fine line on that one. But it shows really how he plays within the grey area with his song characters. I mean think about it at the end Flash is a sympathetic character in the Preservation saga. Also Ray seems to like wear the black hat of the villian: Flash, Headmaster, or Rock Star who takes over man's life including bedding his wife while b#%^&*ing about her choice of wall hangings.

    In Art Lover I think he wants people to at least question who is this guy in shades watching the young children. (who knows maybe the guy also has some permanent waves). I do believe Ray subcobsciously or not picks up characters from previous songs and either continues their narrative or uses it as jumping off point. I could see the guy in Black Messiah a decade later opening up a Video Shop or Flash lamenting the demise of Sleazy Town. Ray is very green he likes to recycle, but more accurately re-visit.

    He seems to have a palette of characters that he works with and then fits them into new songs usually morphing them in some way as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  13. markelis

    markelis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami Beach FL
    Black Messiah:

    I just don’t know what to make of this one. I had ignored it for 40 years, listening to it for the past few weeks in anticipation of this fine thread. I expected to hate it, but every time I play it I can’t find the hate.

    First off, as mentioned previously, its still earworming the hell out of me, so there is that.

    I am a big fan actually of “cod” reggae. In fact I have a great playlist of rockers reggaeing. I know they never really get it right, its not quite reggae, its rock reggae, but I love genre mix ups, so I guess that’s another point in the pro-black messiah column.

    The dixie land solo section comes in outta nowhere, but for me it works too (another one in the plus column).

    I guess I don’t really get the message Ray is conveying in the lyrics, its seems a unclear, but on the surface I don’t hear anything other a rather ham fisted plea for racial equality, and its catchy and silly, which is hard to say is a negative, so I guess I am four positive points in and no negatives yet.

    Black Messiah will certainly drift to the tail end of my Arista playlist, but it might make the cut.

    Numbers don’t lie. I guess I kind like Black Messiah!

    (but i am clearly not being very definitive!)
     
  14. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    In "Too Hot", "Arthur" was Arthur Scargill, the British mine union leader, while "Julian" was Julian Temple, the director.
     
  15. Brian x

    Brian x the beautiful ones are not yet born

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Without comment, here're a couple of interpretations floating around online:

    "Now I know that I'm treading dangerous waters here, but I also get the feeling that Ray is very pissed about the reverse racism happening today against whites. All in all, this is a highly offensive yet catchy little tune that I can't help but sing when the sheeple of America start crying for their lord Obama."

    "I get the impression that it is about inverted discrimination. (I've been a victim of this and been denied work on a few occasions because I'm white and applied for a job that had a predominantly black staff team)"
     
  16. ThereOnceWasANote

    ThereOnceWasANote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape May, NJ
    Thanks for that! Yeah he was doing a lot with Julian Temple at the time, as were the Stones, Bowie too on Absolute Beginners. Julian Temple was all over place at the time.
     
  17. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    I would agree with this. I do believe he meant for the lyrics to be positive and for equality, like he already has sung about in “Supersonic Rocket Ship”. Unfortunately, the lyrics and delivery in “Black Messiah” are a bit ham fisted.

    “Nobody's gonna travel second class
    There'll be equality
    And no suppression of minorities. Well alright.
    We'll take this planet, shake it round
    And turn it upside down”.
     
  18. croquetlawns

    croquetlawns Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland
    Wow, removing those lines makes the lyrics even more suspect!
     
  19. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Black Messiah
    First off, @mark winstanley - great write-up. You tackled a sticky topic and song perfectly.

    First to the lyrics...yeah...I think if you have to twist your mind around what exactly Ray is getting at, then the lyric has failed. For me, the lyrics are fine up until:
    "But white's white, black's black and that's that
    And that's the way you should leave it"
    I think that part is inelegant and when you're talking about such a topic, you really gotta be clearer than that. This can be taken a few different ways.
    I DO think that this song is taken from a character's point of view. Though I don't have precise addresses of where Ray lived up until the writing of this song, I'm fairly sure he wasn't living in a predominantly black neighborhood at any point. Not that it matters all that much, I suppose. He could have overheard someone talking in a pub somewhere and was inspired. But it still doesn't excuse the lack of clarity. So Ray gets 40 lashes with a wet noodle. For me, it doesn't rise above that.

    The music is fantastic which luckily saves this song. To me this is a lovely ska-flavored tune with the horns and the organ sound. Ska makes me happy so that's a good start. And the bass and drums are also a good feature on this one. And again, this sounds like a song the Police could have done. Maybe Sting could have helped with lyric development. :D
     
  20. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    LOL. I thought this same thing - Ray is trying to get a reaction with this song. He does that from time to time (as we shall see with Art Lover)...and I think this is an example of that tendency.
     
  21. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Kinky
     
  22. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    It's amazing the things that trigger a song lyric, when you're in that frame of mind.
     
  23. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    You call that a "pensive" Ray? I call it a miserable Ray. Look at the body language...he's feeling defensive or upset. He had a lot of emotional issues. poor thing. I say he's "miserable", but find it a little endearing. :laugh:
     
  24. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Those lead guys from 70's UK comedy shows had some staying power, Reg Varney from On The Buses reached 90 odd!
     
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  25. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Interesting ddiscovery, i have thought this sounds more RCA than Arista and that's not just due to the horns!
     

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