Also their third album! I remember being kind of stunned when I first saw this in the inport section of Tower records in 1998 ish. I was like uh? whu? why? would any band do that, esp some up and coming ultra hip riot grrl act? However, if anything, the clean modish design suits the music on the Sleater - Kinney album even better than the Kink record, being as their music is so angular and to the point. I'd love to one day own both records on vinyl and put em side by side. Apparently they chose the homage as a statement to suggest that women could do an album that held up in the classic rock canon, although it's quite an obscure reference so few probably got that. I think drummer Janet Weiss being a pretty big Kinks fan had a lot to do with it. Obviously every Beatles album has been parodied and referenced multiple times over, as have many Stones and Who albums but I think this still may still be the ONLY Kinks Kover Homage, unless anyone can think of any others?
This clip is a great one. The Kinks are gyrating as if they’re flea-bitten, Pete’s bass is held at high-chest level, the one striped-shirted kid is trying to sing while chewing gum...a great snapshot in time.
Reference guide A bit about the band Oct 1963 I'm A Hog For You Baby (first recording) Dec 1963 Oobadiaboo unreleased? Feb 1964 Long Tall Sally - live footage Apr 1964 You Still Want Me - b-side You Do Something To Me Aug 1964 You Really Got Me - Shindig tv - live footage - beat room - BBC - SNL - live b-side It's All Right/It's Alright - shindig tv Oct 1964 The Kinks Beautiful Delilah - shindig So Mystifying Just Can't Go To Sleep Long Tall Shorty - live 65 - shindig - live 72 I Took My Baby Home I'm A Lover, Not A Fighter - shindig You Really Got Me Cadillac - live Bald Headed Woman Revenge Too Much Monkey Business -Alt fast take I've Been Driving On Bald Mountain Stop Your Sobbing Got Love If You Want It - Live BBC I Believed You I Don't Need You Anymore Everybody's Gonna Be Happy demo Don't Ever Let Me Go 1964 All Day And All Of The Night - shindig - US tv I Gotta Move - shindig - live 92? 1964 All Day And All Of The Night EP Nov 1964 Kinksize Sessions Louie Louie - live I Gotta Go Now I've Got That Feeling - live Things Are getting Better The Kinks at the BBC 1964 Meets the Kinks You Really Got Me interview excerpt Cadillac All Day And All Of The Night Little Queenie I'm A Lover Not A Fighter Ray on YRGM and USA I've Got That Feeling Paris 1965 Hullabaloo 1965 The Kinks educate the US Dave - Annette and Frankie Jan 1965 Got Love If You Want It EP Jan 1965 Kinksize Hits EP Jan 1965 Tired Of Waiting For You - French tv - Shindig - NME - US echo / Come on Now - live - live 82 5 Mar 1965 Kinda Kinks Look For Me Baby Got My Feet On The Ground Nothin' In This World Can Stop Me Worryin' 'bout That Girl - live? Naggin' Woman I Wonder Where My Baby Is Tonight - Sweden Tired Of Waiting For You Dancing In the Street Don't Ever Change Come On Now - alt vocal So Long You Shouldn't be Sad Something Better Beginning I Go To Sleep Tell Me So I'll Know A Little Bit Of Sunlight There's A new World Just Opening up For Me This I Know 17 March 1965 Kink Size (US lp) 19 Mar 1965 Ev'rybodys' Gonna Be Happy - tv/ Who'll Be the Next In Line - shindig - tv 21 May Set Me Free - tv - US tv - shindig/ I Need You - Dave - Ray Mick Avory interview July 1965 See My Friends - discothec - tv - shindig - live 94/ - alt Never Met A Girl Like You Before Dave interview Sept 1965 Kwyet Kinks Wait Till The Summer Comes Along Such A Shame A Well Respected Man - German tv Don't You Fret - live in 69 Clay Cole meets the Kinks BBC - You Shouldn't Be Sad Tired Of Waiting For You Ev'rybody's Gonna Be Happy This Strange Effect Hide And Seek - live Swedish Newsreel Sept 65 Nov 1965 Kinkdom 19th Nov 1965 Till The End Of The Day - live 65 - live 93 - live 80 Where Have All The Good Times Gone 26th Nov 1965 Kink Kontroversy
The title is pretty cool. The art work is supremely cool. I think therein* lies one of the key factors to the difficulties some of us had with this LP : it mostly doesn't sound like its cover at all, except maybe for the single and the opening track. Talking about the opening song, it's also incredibly misleading. If you're coming to this album backwards like I'm sure most of us did, expecting more Village Greens, Sunny Afternoons and Waterloo Sunsets, it's understandable Milk Cow Blues, as good as it is, could be something of a turn off. *first time in my life that I use "therein" in a sentence, I hope I got it right !
I have very warm feelings albout the album and have always wondered why Face to Face instead of Kontroversy that is cited as the start of the golden run of albums. I guess you could argue it tails off a bit towards the end - the last three songs are among the least memorable to me. But I can happily listen to the whole album without skipping anything, which isn't the case with some of their more celebrated albums!
This I Know A lovely haunting ballad from Ray. Till the End of the Day Where Have All the Good Times Gone What to say? Flippin' awesome, that's what.
Kinks Kontroversy Because I already knew three of these songs from Kelvin Hall, plus “Where Have All the Good Times Gone” from a Marble Arch compilation, I did not rush to buy this LP when I was building my collection. It was among the final that I acquired. Because I was already exposed to the wealth and depth of their classic 60’s deep cuts, when I finally heard “Kontroversy” I was underwhelmed. I’ve never stopped wanting this to be a better album. Especially with that inviting cover. It struck me as a clever joke: at the top they tease you with the 4 band members in a row—like the Beatles Hard Day’s Night—but instead of continuing it: BAM! they zoom in on that big picture of the guitar. It used to belong to George Harrison according to Ray. I’d love to know the back story on that acquisition. My reaction to the Sleater-Kenney homage was the exact same as ajsmith. Mine was even at a Tower Record, too. It was not uncommon for pop LP’s to pinch cover designs from earlier jazz albums. I wonder if that’s the case here? Fortuleo gets it right pointing out the problem with the sequencing. The whole thing could be improved by mixing it around. Lead with “Till the End of the Day.” Close side 2 with “Milk Cow Blues.” Stringing the weakest tracks together to close out the disc is like a trio of bad melons at the end of the produce aisle; anyone who has worked in a grocery will tell you you need to spread the duds out among the good ones so they are not so conspicuous. It’s an uneven disc. Compared with the thematically-focused works that the band would later make a trademark, this one goes in multiple directions. One track looks so forward to “Face to Face” that a fan could be forgiven for assuming it is from that album. Several others look backwards and perfect what they have been doing all along—power chord pop, Brill-building-esque ballads, and their final (and best) cover version of someone else’s material. Then there are the tracks of the moment. Dylan’s impact on music as a whole is monumental. With the Kinks it was often absorbed in subtle, at times indecipherable ways. But on this LP, we get the Kinks Dylan influence at it most heavy-handed. Ray as a songwriter in the 60’s works best in the vignette (he will shortly prove himself the peerless, indisputable master in that area) less so in the overarching universal. Here his attempts at that are a mixed bag. One is a stone cold Kinks Klassic (discussed in this thread yesterday) The others are mediocre at best, and, IMO probably his most forgettable efforts of the 1960’s.
The booklet to the deluxe edition of Kink Kontroversy says Mick played on tracks 1-2 and Clem played on tracks 3-12. But then they contradict that by saying on page 14 that Mick plays on "When I See That Girl of Mine," which is track 4. The Hilman book says Cattini "seems to be used for much of the album." There's a lot of seems to be, may have been, probably did, and could have's in the Hilman book. It seems the session info for some albums doesn't exist like it may for other bands, compared to the live, radio, and TV info. Kink sources contradict others. "Ring the Bells" may have been recorded in August too. They aren't sure. It was attempted in June because they thought it would be their new single for whatever reason, but that version was disguarded. (That stumps me as nearly every other song on the album is more single-worthy).
It is really interesting how vague the information around this album seems to be.. Thanks for the info on Ring The Bells.... I like it, but I'm not sure about being a single
As for The Kink Kontroversy, which I often misstated as The Kinks Kontroversy, I disagree with anyone who doesn't love this album. I even like the last three songs, which a couple people have targeted. I listened to it a couple days ago and I was immediately struck by how the production is so much better than the first two records. The drums aren't buried, in fact they kick ass (sorry Mick), and the rhythm section is tight. I will agree with others on the sequencing. Between this album and their last, the guys released an EP, 3-4 singles, and Ray demo'ed a bunch of new songs. So they open it with a cover? They had more than enough material. They must have really loved "Milk Cow Blues." And with their peers in the UK putting out 13-14 song albums, the Kinks give us 12 for the second time in a row. Anybody else think of the Rolling Stones' "Heart of Stone" when "I Am Free" starts?
As Ray opens that first verse, his vocal delivery sounds very Dylan. So much so that its a distraction to me. This is one of the reasons I much prefer the live version on One For the Road; Ray thankfully drops the Dylanesque affect.
Wow. Don't think I'd ever seen the US cover. With all the time spent scouring used record stores and flea markets back in the day, you'd think I'd have come across a copy at some point. Agree it's nowhere as good as the UK version.
I. Love. This. Album. I can see that objectively, song for song, it's not in the same realm of consistent quality or sophistication as the next 3 or 4. But in terms of enjoyment and feel, listening to it from beginning to the very end, I couldn't love it much more. It's one of THE records I am most likely to put on when I am in a dark, dark mood -- coincidentally (?), along with Love's garagey debut, which came out at almost the same time. The albums share a love of a thudding, walking tempo. Maybe that's my "hey, let's cheer you up" tempo. Kontroversy's songs deal consistently with depression and existential "why are we here?" crises, and do so in a way that lifts my spirits. I think I was first alerted to its existence by that Nicholas Schaffner "British Invasion" book I mentioned before. (My high school had the book.) I wish I could find the text, but whichever book talked about it, it was described as having this unprecedented grungey, heavy or muddy sound, top to bottom. I think that's right. Gloriously so. I'm guessing I picked it up after getting Face to Face, Something Else and VGPS, early on in college. I remember making a 60 minute mix tape for my girlfriend with their earlier best songs on side "A" and this album on side B. Perhaps it serves a similar function in the band's progression as the Beatles' "Rubber Soul," which is again, from the same season. For each band, it's a culmination of what they had done up til then, but performed at a much greater level of sophistication, depth and quality.... before making a leap into something fancier. Not a perfect comparison, though. It could also be the Kinks' "A Hard Days' Night" or "Aftermath" or "All Summer Long" -- the first time they were ready to take on an album seriously, packing it with their own songwriting. Nicky Hopkins' playing is great on this. He was doing similar stuff on the Who's "My Generation," (flashier, really), recorded with the same producer, released, again, at roughly the same time. I read, perhaps on this forum long ago, that this album was recorded by bouncing between two mono tape decks, as an aesthetic choice by Ray. I find that VERY hard to believe. Much more likely that it would have been Shel's standard practice of recording on three tracks, mixing to 1, adding two overdub tracks. But... I'd love to know. The 1990's Castle CD with a few bonus tracks on the end is a shrill, painful mess, with the 4K EQ band cranked through the roof. If that's the only way you know the album, you NEED to get another version. My go-to is a Spanish PRT LP from 1980 or so.
Yes I agree. I was misled by the lyrics put up by Mark. The song now makes perfect sense! THE KINK KONTROVERSY The US album cover is terrible. They seem to want to keep the Kinks in the same image as the first album. The UK album cover, this time, is far superior. As for the track sequencing, starting an album with a cover song, when all the other songs are original compositions, is a really dumb move. They should have put Milk Cow Blues as the first or last song on the second side, as the Beatles did with the two non-originals on the album Help! released earlier the same year.
For me, their first great album and a big step up from Kinda Kinks. Like a previous post stated, it's an album I can and want to listen to all the way through. I guess it also helps that it, like many pop albums of the time, runs only about half an hour. I can't think of how to improve the sequencing. Milk Cow Blues is an absolute joyous rave-up and by far my favourite Kinks cover (kover). Nice change of pace to the beautiful Ring The Bells, then a rocker in Gotta Get The First Plane Home and great melodic pop number, When I See That Girl Of Mine. Next, a pretty astounding piece of Dave's philosophy, I Am Free. The side closes with Till The End of The Day, one of the most joyous songs ever put to wax. The World Keeps Going Round was my newly-discovered favourite when I first heard the record. I guess I like the sentiment of the world-weariness of this and the next song, I'm On An Island. Where Have All The Good Times Gone is a stone-cold classic. The last time I saw Ray Davies perform, he opened with this song. It's Too Late is a great shuffle and Rolling Stones-worthy (or Dylan-worthy?) sneering lyrics that it has in common with You Can't Win. I love that Shel Talmy plays guitar on this track. What's In Store For Me is good too, with a fine Dave Davies vocal. There were some issues with the rights to the songs on this album for a time as many of its contents were not compiled on the myriad of Kinks kollections for quite a while. The liner notes on the U.S. issue seem to allude to the touring ban as a reason that they weren't as popular in the U.S. as some other British Invasion bands.
That's a fun clip. Dear God, please, please, please let the name of that middle band be "The Stripped Sweaters." If not, it's a shameful waste of stripped sweaters.
I don’t agree with this thought. There were only two covers on the prior album and all its associated ep and singles. Ray was having his songs shopped around because they had so much material. Kinda Kinks was the first time. This is the second time.
I can agree with this. To me, it sounds like an album that came out before Kinda Kinks. It always confused me to see that this album is after it. It does sound a bit like a step backwards. I still think it's a fantastic record with many key moments. I think part of the problem was opening with "Milk Cow Blues". Give me back a few of those unreleased Kinks songs we went through like "I Go To Sleep" and "Strange Effect" and replace with a few of the weaker tunes on here and we have an album equally as good as Kinda Kinks. As it is, it ranks a little lower than the previous album, but still has plenty to love. Also, one of their best album covers.
This album to me is not a step back, but a continuation, of their previous albums. Some old blues type (R & B) songs, some rockers, some traditional pop tunes and then some songs only Ray could have written. Throw in a tune by Dave and you have a typical Kinks LP. The songs that stand out for me are the songs that only Ray could have written, such as "Ring The Bells",Where Have All The Good Times Gone", and "The World Keeps Going Round" "Ring The Bells" is a song, that when I heard it for the first time, It moved me emotionally. The refrain "Hear Them, Hear Them" is touching in it's poignancy. I too wish some of those demos were on the album, for they are great tunes, that are almost lost to time. I've come to think of Ray Davies, as the British equivalent of James Taylor, who with their plaintive vocals capture their respective countries soul. James with his Appalachia sound, and Ray with his Music Hall/Common man sound. Just my two cents.
I wanted to type out a few excerpts from Doug Hinman's book since we are and will be discussing sessions, when they were, who did what, etc. This is from pages 4-5. "Unlike a relatively straightforward subject such as The Beatles -- who primarily recorded at one studio, where administration personnel kept virtually every tape and maintained detailed documentation of recording activity -- no evidence of The Kinks' recording activities in the 1960s survives. ... Pye Records and Pye Studios where the Kinks did most of their studio work in the 1960s, kept very few session tapes (they generally recorded over them.) ... The studio information included here is the best the author has been able to reconstruct from a wide range of sources. But there is no unimpeachable source for this information and the reader should be aware of this from the outset." "Determining who played on certain recordings is sometimes a matter of conjecture rather than proven fact. Again, I am forced to rely largely on a combination of less than perfect sources, including the recollection of participants (often in conflict), musical evidence (largely subjective but necessary), and reasonable assumption. ... No one has very good information on The Kinks' recording history -- and certainly not the record companies who now own that material. Everyone faces the same problem: a dire lack of reliable original sources." + + +
For a band as significant as the Kinks (in my opinion) that seems crazy. Appreciate that post though, because that really does save us from a lot of speculation... if the experts don't know, and the band don't seem to have great memories, all we have is conjecture and guess work ... fortunately I just love the music, and am not overly perturbed by that. I just find it quite remarkable.
