The life of a record is only 40 to 50 plays?

Maybe I can help. In the latter half of the 1970's I bought LAST and applied it many of my records. (Luckily I did not attach those stupid little stickers to the record or cover.) I still have most of those records. I also have many records I never applied LAST to. The stuff was a bit expensive at the time, and I got tired of using it for so little result.

I did not notice much if any difference as far as sound quality, although LAST seemed to make the surfaces a hair quieter on some. Then again - that could just have been the velvet brushing and cleaning that was associated with applying LAST.

As far as record life - nothing. No discernable impact. My LAST records are no more or less clean & quiet playing than those I never used LAST on.

I always took care of my records. I have never come close to wearing down a record and I have some I played many 100's of times (easily). To this day they sound fine, no groove wear or distortion, maybe a few tics and faint surface noise on a few from being played so hard. I don't think LAST is necesarily bad but in hindsight I wouldn't use it. Just clean the record and store them in stable place. Save those 200 'test' hours for something fun. Be like me in 40-50 years; a gray haired old scandahoovian dude still air guitaring to Thin Lizzy...when no ones looking.

 

Well we should see a definitive answer after 200 plays. Thanks for the input though.

 

I think not. It is the proper job of butlers to load cassettes into a cassette deck...

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Plus (related to the topic), according to the commercial you can play a cassette 500 times...

 

If anyone needs to borrow my "LAST-o-meter" -- let me know.

 

I think it depends on the battery life. I was able to get about 8 hours of playtime on a charge (setting the player to random, hitting "Play" and not touching the player).

Serious Answer: It is likely that the sound quality will continue its slight degradation just as it did from the first 50 plays.

Silly Answer: The album will undergo a tragic transformation with all the tracks on the album changed into "Funeral March" by Chopin...

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Just upped my .2 x .7 to 3 grams (AT95 retip.....if this is wrong I don't want to be right. I'll let you guys know the results. If this doesn't damage a record, nothing will.

And don't get me started on cassettes. I played them on Playskool tape recorders all day long as a kid in the 90s....still have dozens of them and they sound exactly the same as they did 20 to 25 years ago. Weren't they supposed to eventually lose their magnetic charge? Hmm....

 

Preposterous! Some of the hit records played on radio could have been played 100 or more times per week. They did get replaced when noticeably worn, but played with the correct stylus and treated properly, each could last way longer than 60 plays. Many radio stations replaced the stylus regularly, more often than they replaced the records. Incidentally, the cartridges of choice were made by Shure, Stanton and Pickering. The proper stylus was a conical diamond tracking at 3-5 grams. Radio stations received their records for free and may have been given several copies of each record and replacement copies later if they were hits. About the only mass quantity of records received at one time was about 100 copies of Olivia Newton-John's "Have You Never Been Mellow". I guess that MCA was giving this record an extra push to make sure radio stations noticed it.
Another commercial application of records where they received excessive plays was in jukeboxes. The sole purpose of a jukebox is to make money. In popular locations, if any of the records didn't receive a lot of plays each week, they were replaced. Most every jukebox has record and play counters, electric, mechanical and/or electronic. Looking at one of my jukes, I see one counter which shows 56 plays and I can guarantee you that there is nothing wrong with the record. This stereo jukebox from 1959 has an original Pfanstiehl cartridge with a diamond conical stylus and I have it tracking at 3 grams.
Record material was another factor. Many of the 45's were made from Poly-styrene which shortened their lives, compared to vinyl.
An elliptical or other chisel type of stylus is another story. There is a reason they track lightly. Unless they are designed for it, if they track higher than 2 grams and/or are not aligned properly, they might just cut into a record.

 

With cassettes, it is likely that repeated plays will cause the high-frequencies to be reduced but there are many factors in this. Among them:

• The type of tape used (Type I (the type normally used for pre-recorded tapes) doesn't have the high-frequency response of Type II and Type IV tapes.
• The quality of the tape itself. Many pre-recorded tapes didn't use the highest quality tapes.
• How the tape was made. Tapes you made yourself were usually superior to pre-recorded tapes due to the following:
  • Tapes you made yourself were made in real time while pre-recorded tapes were made using high-speed duplication.
  • Most people used Type II and Type IV tapes, while, as mentioned above, pre-recorded tapes were made using Type I tape.
  • A personal cassette deck could be adjusted for the specific tape you are using for recording.
    
  • You have the option of various versions of noise reduction or to not use it at all, while most pre-recorded tapes were made using Dolby B (which based on what I've read in this forums people don't like to use).
• The quality of the equipment used to play it and how it is maintained (cleaned and demagnetized on a regular basis?)

 

Medium Mass cartridges today are most popular. Due to the neo belt drive lovers, the MC fan clubs, and the arms being a bit more massive to handle these trends. Nothing wrong with it, the medium mass market has the most cartridge/stylus choices of all today.

 

You were in a big market. MCA serviced WATO 1290 in Oak Ridge, Tennessee 4 copies of this single. 2 LP copies. We had to call for more if needed. I got as many for my own program as the station did, as they serviced me individually. Some labels did well to get us 2 copies of a single. On my oldies show, I got good service post 1975 from the major labels, and their reps got me anything I needed and at least 2 copies, but I sent them lists of what I played on air, and the stations playlist. I occasionally had to buy replacement copies from Woolworths 4/$1 bins.

 

This isn't about records wearing out after that many plays. It's about how many times people usually play a record before they stop listening to it.

 

I wasn't in a really big market back then with a population of about 100K at that time. But we did have one Boss Radio station of the Drake-Chenault group and I think they were treated like kings in the music industry. They also opened a sister FM stereo automated station in town. Maybe we got it a little better here because a lot of companies used our area for test marketing. We had menu items at our local McDonalds that if you asked for them in L.A., they'd look at you like you were from another planet.
I was at one radio station locally where we were lucky to get a handful of record a week. As music director, I went to friends at other local stations to beg for records. Capitol sent us a letter stating that if we didn't send them back our used, unused and extra records or they would stop servicing us. We couldn't afford to send records back so we got cut off.
Yes, Woolworths was a great place to buy records. 45's were usually 3/$1. and once in awhile be on sale for 4/$1. None of the 45's were current, but some were recent and provided a source for oldies. K-mart was a good place to buy current 45's at 68 cents each. Even the Singer sewing machine store sold records and current 45's were 50 cents each. I believe the cut-out LP's were usually $1.97. Since mono LP's were discontinued around 1968, there were many mono LP's in the cut-out bins, but there were some stereo ones also. I'm sure most of those mono cut-outs went unsold and were eventually trashed. Nobody wanted mono back then, but now, demand is high for them and they go for high prices.

 

No wonder the pressing plants are happy to put out tons of faulty discs! How many of that 52% who say they have a TT they use play all the record they buy or have a Crosley type product? Some even think the pops and crackles are part of the experience. If only Audiophiles return bad vinyl the return level will be very low.

 

I remember that trend- of super light tracking force. And the claims made that such cartridges and very low mass tone arms were less likely to cause damage to the grooves. I think mistracking/bad set up is far more prone to cause problems--and a very light tracking force may be problematic - both in terms of tracking as well as possible damage by mistracking. What were the other cartridges from the era that followed a similar approach?
My recollection is that the Shure V-15 was the 'king' of tracking (I gather some people still use them today with, what aftermarket styli?) What was/is the recommended tracking force for those?
When records were in their heyday, I don't remember people being quite as obsessed with care and handling-- yes, there were Discwashers, Parastats, Dust Bug? (the one that looked like a tone arm with a little fiber/fabric roller at the business end), Decca brushes, and cartridges mounted with attached stylus brushes. There were very few vacuum RCMs (the only one I remember was a big Monks at a local hi-fi salon). There were only a handful of separate tone arms in the '70s, compared to today.
I have records that I have owned since the '70s- early '80s that I played quite a bit (on a decent arm, but using a variety of cartridges). I didn't go crazy on set up-- very basic; we didn't have all the tools we have today. Those records not only survived but sound fine today (in terms of groover noise). I think you had to do something to damage the grooves, really bad set up, crystal needle/changer, grinding dust in the record as it played to cause the kind of permanent damage I encounter sometimes when buying used records. I mentioned in one thread that 'every (used) record has a story' and one member here responded that we probably don't want to know what that is!
I think our mindset, generally, is to treat records with more care today than they were treated in the past. I also think the medium is pretty robust, despite the grooves being exposed to all manner of contaminants, mishandling and abuse.

 

I’ve got records that I bought 45 years ago that still sound as good as the day I bought them.
I’ve always kept my records clean, kept the stylus clean, and replaced it after a reasonable amount of time. That’s all there is to it.

 

It is that simple. Vinyl is for people that take the time to take care of ones things.

 

How many times would even a longtime fan want to listen to the same album? Even though I have been a Linda Ronstadt fan for over 40 years, only 4 of her albums still make the rotation. I’m sure I haven’t played Mad Love, Get Closer, Living In The USA, or the Nelson Riddle albums 40 or 50 times.

 

This is how I've done things for over 44 years. This mindset has served me well.

 

I know.

 

I couldn't say about LPs, but it took somewhere near a year of playing a 45 on repeat five or six times a day for it to start to sound worn, and that was on a BSR turntable with a VTF of somewhere above 5 grams (!).

 

Oh man. My PF - Animals and Bowie's StationtoStation is in that 30 plus range too.

 

Think about it: The stylus is only on any portion of a record's grooves for an instant as the record rotates, thus getting virtually no wear. I think some are getting caught up on how long it takes to play the entire record, forgetting the stylus is only on each portion of the groove for a very short period of time as the record rotates. Also, the reason the stylus wears out before the record is it's in constant contact with the record (every record played) the entire playing time, every time you play a record, constant contact … whereas once the needle passes a portion of a record for that instant it's job is done.

Records if taken care of, last a very, very long time … as most of you already know.

 

If you played records (at the time) on a unit that looked something like this that tracked at 6 grams, then they could be right at 50 plays.


If you played records on something like this, then they could be right today.

 

You haven't bought any used 70s vinyl recently then? Certainly had 'mint' records purchased online that have had visible and audible ground in sections. Noticeable from a dull appearance. Most people I knew in the 70's were still using heavy tracking stackers. It's a miracle that there is still a lot of playable vinyl still around from that period, probably because a lot of it was played a very few times.

 

Almost none are showing up at local yead sales and thrift stores, except for trashed copies. Wear is usually noticeable I agree, but sometimes rather hidden. An experienced audiophile knows the signs to look for, a certain type of sheen as a bad indicator. Even a lustrous record can be damaged.

I have purchased records with a few spindle trails on the label, but otherwise the vinyl showing little to no play. A record may play cleanly, but still suffer fidelity loss from previous play. The stackers of the 70's were not as ferocious as the 50's - 60's, so a record could survive perhaps a dozen plays without any obvious damage.

... however ...

A short story... In my 20's I returned to college from Thanksgiving break, and had left my AR turntable and system connected. My system was off limits to my teenage sister, and so were my records. (She enjoyed them but only me or my older sister played them on the AR) Mom had this Zenith "all in one" system in her room. I instructed my sister, "Do not play my records on the Zenith" .... well .... I returned home for Christmas break, and as usual couldn't wait to listen to my records. The first LP, instantly I knew. No distortion, but inner detail and clarity not there, not like before. I questioned her. She denied it. I insisted the records sounded different, and that I knew. She finally confessed, but SCREAMED back at me.. " I only played them once or twice, it makes no difference, you're such a PERFECTIONIST". (she cried)

The casualties were minimal, a few 45's and an LP (especially a styrene KC 45 and Dorothy Moore.. slight distortion from those)

It does make a difference, maybe 2 or 3 plays, maybe a few more on a 70's BSR with ceramic cartridge, a brand new system with minimal use.
The take away, don't play pristine records on a ceramic. It'll never be the same, even though the record may appear the same and produces no distortion!