Another thread served as a kind of review of the movie and I don't want to repeat that here. I also don't want to give any spoilers to those who haven't seen it so consider this a *spoiler thread.* I've seen the new film (and saw the original one only once, when it first came out) and have more than a couple of questions about its storyline. I know a few of you are fans who understand it, so perhaps you can help... 1) I assume Zion is located underground, beneath the Earth, right? If so, what exists on the Earth's surface? Are any humans still alive who don't live in Zion? 2) The "familiar" looking Earth ("our" Earth if you will, the one we live in) is actually just a computer simulation, right? What we call The Matrix. I get that part. And the way Neo and the other rebels enter the Matrix is via the cable that's connected to the port on the backs of the heads, right? 3) So if they use the computer cables to enter the Matrix, what the heck do they need their ships for? Where do the ships go exactly? Just a wonderin'... Ray
"No sense makes sense"----Charles Manson I have no idea what Crazy Charlie meant with that line, but it comes to mind when watching either Terminator or Matrix films. The core of the plots of both films--from the future to the past in the former, the manipulation of time and space in the latter--are beyond my understanding, as is, with the MATRIX films, much else. I think it's meant just to be a visual and aural phantasmagoria--not to be analyzed seriously beyond whatever biblical allusions are snuck in(which are many, though I find there are more obvious cinematic ones to consider). At any rate, there are chat rooms all over the net going on about this. FWIW, HTF has not only a discussion thread but a reviews-only thread if you're interested. I don't know if you've ever gone over there, but if you want a taste of what people are talking about, HTF is a great place to start. I couldn't even begin to make sense of the new one. But truly, a noisy and often exciting, mesmerizing ride, with some dull patches scattered around. I'm not sure any plot points mean much of anything, to be honest. ED
The ship (hovercraft ?) has to keep moving in an attempt to evade te Sentinels who exist outside of the Matrix but who work on behalf of the Matrix and who would destroy the "free" humans. All the best - Andrew
For those of you who haven't seen "The Matrix (WB 1999)" PLEASE GO AWAY AND WATCH THE MOVIE. It's cheap to rent right now anyway. For those of you who've forgotten... 1. Zion is the last known world. Yes, it is located deep into the earth's core, where it's still warm. The only humans alive roaming the surface of the earth are enslaved into pods that use body-heat energy in vast rows that generate electricity from this heat. Without this heat, the machines cannot survive. There is no solar energy, because the war between man and machine blackened the sky, much like nuclear winter. Zion can make their own food, purify water, live. The humans in pods are asleep, for life, and are intravenously fed and mentally nourished by participating in a non-reality world that simulates the world we're all a part of. Your job, your family, kids, the air you think you are breathing is a part of the illusion called the Matrix. It doesn't mean your boss, family and kids do not exist, they are asleep and exist in the Matirx, as well as out...sleeping. When you die, you are thrown in a pool of enzymes that break down flesh and bone slowly, and you are fed to the living. In the Matrix, you are merely buried, as far as anyone can tell. 2. Earth exists. However, it's horribly polluted and flooded with machines that search and destroy any "awake" living beings. The only way you can interface and affect the Matrix is to "upload" your self-image and conscience into it. Once you are uploaded, your life is as most people experience it. Imagine that you miss that Hamburger joint in San Jose. You would have to go back into the Matrix and have that burger. However, what you will realize is, that burger is not real, the ketchup is not real, neither are the fries. The Matrix just tells your brain you've had food, and it was good. The people however, aren't necessarily simulated. They're in the Matrix too, living the fake earth lifestyle, while in general, are enslaved in pods on earth used like a battery that feeds the machines with heat energy. Neo's role is to basically find a way to awaken many people out of this "sleep" so the Machines are left with nothing, and earth can slowly learn to rebuild itself again. 3. The ships are to roam the earth, with electrical weapons so that they may find ways of beating the Matrix, and run whenever they need to. You could not just sit on camp to do nothing, Zion needs to grow, learn, roam. The ships do this, and can hack into the Matrix at any time. Any other questions?
Re: Re: The Matrix Plot Questions Actually, So in the first one, there is supposed to be some significance with the scene with the cookies? What was or is the hidden meaning?
Re: Re: The Matrix Plot Questions Once in the theater, a dozen times(at least)at home. Still haven't made sense of a fraction of it. For which I feel somehow blessed... Nope, just a comment: the two MATRIX films make the DUNE novels seem like Romper Room And I find that there is no better way to spoil movies like this than to analyze them excessively. If the filmmakers didn't go to the trouble--and the convolutions of both suggest they did not--why should we? These films are about CGI visuals and slam-bang action. They win Oscars for SFX, Sound, Editing, Costumes, Set Design, etc., not for acting and writing. Does anyone seriously believe Keanu Reeves knows what the story's about? If I'm him, I take that big fat check and sit around smiling a lot. What a gig! Having said that, Sckott, a gallant attempt at explaining some of the storyline You're a better filmgoer than I.... ED
For an unorthodox look at the Matrix: nothing is what it seems... There is no spoon and, quite possibly, no London Film Institute, at least in the real world
I've personally been quite disappointed in posts here that have to do with how people view the film as nothing but a CGI-backflip, and nothing else. I'll be quite up front in saying I think it's frustrating to me when I hear people went to see the film and said it was dialog mumbo-jumbo and "zzz". The truth here is, the plot is really mentally intensive. If you've seen the Matrix and Reloaded and you don't get it, that's fine. I think people are entitled to their opinion, but it really eggs me when people don't take the time to look into the plot. And the plot has a lot. Quite honestly, if you think the Matrix was hogwash, boring and video-game-like, that's totally cool. AND, you've missed the entire point. Sorry. Ironically, the new up and coming Terminator film has a LOT to do in common with the plot I explain above. There is a war that begins when Man makes machine intelligent. The machine soon finds out that he doesn't need man, machine destroys man. Kinda 1984'ish? Maybe War Of The Worlds? You pick. Now, Neo in the film "gets it". He had the idea and the gist of quite a few things before he even takes the pill. Ironically still, when we are hired for a big job, we are already interviewed by someone who is willing to hire us because we somewhat "get it" and will most possibly understand what comes ahead. That is why Neo was chosen in the plot of the movie. He wanted to know. He wanted to understand the Matrix. The Matrix Reloaded has a prerequisite. And that is, you have watched the 1st Matrix and understand it. Much of what I've mentioned is literally narrated in the movie when Morpheus sits in front of one of Steve's old Tvs and explains to Neo that people on earth have been transformed into batteries much like a Duracell. Even more-so ironic, that isn't far from the truth in realities that we live in. There is a very big message in the film(s). FREE YOUR MIND. Accept for once that what you can see MIGHT not be real (like Strawberry Fields) and nothing to get hung about. However, Strawberry Fields has a price. Neo is someone who has proficiently hacked the Matrix in advanced ways. I agree, it's boring now to see him fly like Superman, but I've seen people write code that I think are super men! The same applies to Neo. Now, what about the cookies?? Not sure if I understand.....
If you have broadband, I suggest downloading the animated shorts posted here: http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/index_anime.html They fill out the history of the whole franchise. Not a very sympathetic portrait of humans, though; after seeing the first two shorts, I was glad the robots whooped mankind's ass.
I looked at this, and it seems that this person wasn't paying attention either. If this ass actually listened to the oracle in Reloaded, she mentions that Ghosts, Warewolves and Vampires are nothing but programs or code simulating things that they're not supposed to do. The Twins were this. Renegade programs. This person obviously either blocked his ears, or let his IQ down too quick to understand anything. Sorry, kid. He didn't watch Reloaded. Pure and simple. WTF is he talking about twords the end?!? Cows may only ever existed in the Matrix, but much like Chicken, may have been something the machines had made up. There are no cows on earth anymore. They are extinct, if they existed on Earth at all. That was one of the reasons Cypher wanted back in the Matrix. He didn't wanna friggin know his life sucked anymore. He wanted to be put back in to the mainframe, writen up as rich, powerful, cigars, women, steak. Woah. That's enough for me on this guy. I wondered if he ever went to college and studied for a test from something he read. Me thinks NOT! Misquoted. He actually didn't pay attention to the Matrix, and his hearing is horrible at best. That was Cypher describing the stuff Dozer makes for engine degreaser. Equiv to Moonshine. You can drink it. Another "DUUH!" Better take the spoon away from this guy.
you need no more stunt guys in the future... MATRIX: In recent years visual effects have changed dramatically. How has that affected the way you do and approach a film? R.A. RONDELL: There are no rules, there are no boundaries. If you can think it up, dream it up, they can pretty much put it together for you. It scares me in a sense, I don't think it's going to happen in my career time, but it won't be long before they don't need stunt people anymore. It's a fact. Maybe we?ll be needed to help them design how sequences go together, maybe to show how body movement works, but it's very, very scary. I've seen pieces put together for me as presentations on other films, where they just wanted to show me how the person was supposed to react to whatever apparatus I was going to put together with them, and if it wasn't for the blank face that wasn't there, it was a person. So that frightens me. Again, I don't think it's going to happen in my career or lifetime, but it's soon. We'll just carry on and do the best we can, they'll always need us for something.
Actually, I consider his page to be a rather clever parody NOT of The Matrix itself, but of the sort of nitpicking, pseudo-elitist, condescending criticism that the Matrix movies are/will be facing. He achieves that by taking a few valid or remotely valid points against the plot of the films, and mixing them with the most off-the-wall, idiotic or politically biased comment imaginable. Note that: 1. The guy is using a name that sounds deliberately phony, and there is no "London Film Institute". 2. He is accusing Warner Bros of "blocking" his petition (as if they would care to go to that length). 3. He proclaims himself a "member of the intellectual elite", which sort of gives the game away. 4. The description of the response that he has got when trying to explain his views to the audience of The Matrix (Item 20) is hilarious, and again deliberately presents him in a bad light. 5. He claims to have "mastered the complex code it took to format this web page in half an hour", and the page breaks down immediately afterwards. I would say, not a bad joke
Ahhhh, well then excuse my analitical rant, then. What got me right away was clues that obviously show he hasn't seen either film. Kinda like when a college professor knows you bull*hitted your literary essay exam....
Just a few points: 1. Both MATRIX films are highly enjoyable on a visual and aural level(the latter I KNOW will be better on DVD than as heard in the local theater--has to be!) 2. The films do have some interesting underlying messages. Also true of other movies dismissed as mindless fun, like the TERMINATOR films. Not entirely, but if you want to obscure genuine plot points, the more razzle-dazzle you offer, the more likely that is to happen. 3. I still believe both MATRIX films to be utter hogwash. Thing is, I enjoy hogwash when it's so cleverly and dazzlingly presented as this, even when I do catch the obvious references to previous films. Popcorn movies can have messages, but it's not necessary to get the message to enjoy them. Both are still fun rides. Nothing wrong with that! ED
Terminator - the ending of that movie really bothered me. It was an insult to the intelligence of the audience. Even if there is some kind of alternate time stream, that stream would have a different outcome as well.
That's why it doesn't make any sense. Even as a theory, time travel doesn't wash. If you could go back and redo anything, what would be the point of a future? It would always be changing. The whole thing's so damned silly...but I really enjoyed those two films, all the same. I maintain it's very risky to overanalyze science fiction of any kind, since the very phrase is an oxymoron. ED
Another question Too late for another question? Got around to see "...Reloaded" today (Wed. afternoon showing, nice and quiet)- and I understand most of it, but... The Oracle is a computer program right? Didn't the first movie say or imply that the Oracle lived in Zion, where the children are that were with her? I'm not sure how she and the children could have interacted like that. It sure seemed like she was supposed to be a free human in the first movie. Does this make sense to anyone? Enjoyable film though, even though I hate the way Zion is presented. Why do they always have to be these psuedo-primitive "Thunderdome"/"Waterworld" lookin' things?? James
The Oracle is a living person... played by Gloria Foster... but I haven't seen the movie yet... I will watch the movie tonight.
