Using Discogs as as a source & looking at the Japanese CDs only The track Gondwanda on Pangaea has the following lengths 1985 - 46:51 1990 - 49:42 1996 - 49:42 2001 - 49:42 2001 - 49:42 (Paper sleeve) 2006 - 47:05 (DSD mastered) 2009 - 47:05 (Blu-Spec) 2013 - 47:05 (Blu-Spec CD2) This suggests to me that both the Blu-Spec CDs are based on the DSD remaster.
foobar2000 1.3.17 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2018-02-27 14:06:12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Miles Davis / Agharta -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR9 0.00 dB -11.66 dB 32:30 01-Prelude DR11 0.00 dB -13.30 dB 12:21 02-Maiysha -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 2 Official DR value: DR10 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 1411 kbps Codec: PCM ================================================================================
As I posted above, the Columbia issue that everyone hates has the highest DR values, implying that yes the BluSpec CD2 versions are a bit compressed. I also posted some samples in an earlier post so have a listen if you haven't already.
Wait, wait, wait. Aren't you comparing apples to oranges? The Columbia version and the Blu-spec are two different mixes. That means the mix itself may be more compressed, not something that has been done in mastering. BTW, thank you for the samples and for the work you put into them. To me, the Columbia and the SRCS mixes sound similar (I am not saying they are the same), with the instrument placements and relative balancing similar, but with the Columbia having way more reverb.
I love it how at about 16:30 into Theme from Jack Johnson/Interlude they go into a brief "So What"...
Yes, you're probably right that I shouldn't compare them. I guess I should say compression has been applied somewhere along the line, but perhaps not at the mastering stage. I've also read a comment in another thread here that the BluSpec CD2 is not exactly the same as the vinyl but it's a close 'recreation' (?). Can't verify that myself as I don't have access to the vinyl issue. I agree with your second comment re: Columbia vs SRCS.
The Blu-spec CD2 is mastered much louder than the fatboy US CBS. Although it's not quite as loud as the SRCS from the mid nineties. I've had them all in ProTools to look and listen. When measuring the complete US fatboy Agharta I find an RMS of -19.5 dB. The US Pangaea for some reason is much quieter at an RMS of -25.3 dB. The Blue-spec for each is -16.3 dB and -16.0 dB. And the SRCS for Agharta is -15.7 dB. I don't have the SRCS for Pangaea. Although I want to get it. It's interesting having them all up together like that you can see the extra bits here and there that aren't on all of the releases. And of course hear the differences in reverb etc.
Anther favourite moment: 29:30 into Theme from Jack Johnson/Interlude: the bluesy guitar licks and the ensuing solo (including a loud "wooo" at the end from probably Al Foster) What are yours?
Very lively discussions going on here now. Learning a lot! Listening to Agharta on Spotify now. Enjoy it more than I thought. I decided a long time ago to listen to all the main albums (skipping some discs from bigger sets) in this thread and thought I just had to brace myself for more endless groove based jams on double albums. However, I find at least Agharta a step more interesting than the recent ones. A bit more focused performances? Also I see on Wikipedia that there are quite a bit different track lengths as well. Was the early mixes more edited? Agharta (album) - Wikipedia
The longer track lengths are because of some extra abstract electronic and percussive jamming that happens at the end of the concert. I have yet to hear from anyone who thinks that extra content is really essential. I think Agharta (and to some extent Pangaea too) represents a coming together of the elements Miles had been building for the last 2 years or so. The band is really well-oiled and tight. Unlike some of his other work earlier in this period, there is a fair amount of attention given to recognizable foreground elements - themes, variations on themes, prominent solos. Much of his other early 70s studio and live work is more about groove and atmosphere with those foreground elements taking a backseat. Although some of the material on Agharta appears on studio recordings, it tends to have a different more laidback character. So Agharta is kind of a unique beast unto itself. I consider it pretty near the top of the heap in Miles' catalog.
One of my favorite moments of course belongs to Cosey at 14:40-ish of Prelude where his playing dissolves into that electric screech like he and the guitar just short circuit themselves. Then at about 15:00 he does that crazy ascending up one string of his guitar. Being a guitarist myself I constantly listen to guitar music like a backseat driver, hearing players soar or falter or rely on stock licks to get by...I'm always thinking about it from what is going on with the player's hands on the instrument. Cosey is just so far ahead that I never find myself in that mode. I stop thinking of it as a guy and a guitar and technical things and instead think of his sound like it's this living breathing organism. I've read that he used unorthodox tunings and did crazy things like changing the order of his strings across the neck so that his highest pitched string was in the middle of the fretboard. I need to watch more videos of him in action - not sure if any give a good glimpse of his left hand and guitar neck. I have yet to hear someone really take off on his style except maybe Henry Kaiser on the Yo Miles! albums.
If your ears are similar to mine I wouldn't get too hung up on the compression applied to the Blu-Spec CD2s. I usually prefer CDs with high DR numbers. I remember receiving the white fat boy originals in the post & listening to them for the first time with keen anticipation. I was very disappointed. Most of the excitement from these concerts had disappeared.
The reverb trails off John's guitar licks on that solo...man! I first noticed it when I heard the MFSL LP, but it's there on all versions if you listen for it. I think Teo used a gated channel effect, because when you hear the final "WAH WAMP!" on each phrase, the echo trail goes from one channel to the other. It adds a holographic dimension. Now that I know it's there I listen for it every time.
Forget the "Blu-spec" name, which is just a manufacturing process, and DR values, which can be strongly affected by the larger amount of bass (lower DR) or treble (higher DR). Ok, so it's a little louder than the mix found on the CJM CD. The remix on the Blu-spec version is the one that packs the most wallop, sounds the fullest, and brings me, by far, the most listening pleasure. That said, if someone prefers the old mix on the CJM CDs, more power to you, enjoy.
The Blu-Spec name does refer to a manufacturing process & one which I believe helps a CD transport read a CD more accurately. I don't know how much of the increased listening pleasure is down to this & how much is due to the better mix but experience with other Blu-Spec CD2s tells me that if the master is good then the Blu-Spec CD2 variant will sound that bit better.
There's some good 1973 clips on You Tube (Vienna is one of 'em), lots of chances to see Cosey in action there, even if the one clip does credit him as "Reggie Lucas"! What I wonder about with Cosey is, given the angle he played at, is if his beard ever got caught in the fretboard?
It's just basically the same laquer used for Blu-ray discs. It's much harder and scratch resistant, and much clearer so allows the laser to perform better, reducing timing errors. Blu-spec, SHMCD, it's all just BluRay laquer (and the same hard stuff used on LCD screens).
It's a bit more than that. See Blu-spec CD - Wikipedia Blu-spec CD describes a Red Book CD manufactured by a process introduced by Sony Music Entertainment Japan in late 2008.[1] Its name derives from the similar manufacturing process to that used to create Blu-ray Discs. Instead of a traditional infra-red laser, a blue laser is used for recording the pits on the CD master that is needed for disc replication. The blue laser purportedly creates more precise pits, which Sony claims reduces distortion in the optical read-out process.[2] On 28 September 2012, Sony Music Entertainment Japan announced "Blu-spec CD2" or BSCD2, a progression of the Blu-spec CD format which employs a more precise BD cutting machine, a master disc that is made from the same smooth material as silicon wafers for chip manufacture, and a different recording layer material for the master disc. Sony refers to this process as "Phase Transition Mastering".[3]
I still have a hard time absorbing the fact that these 2 albums are from the same day. Wonder how a triple album would have sound (some edits needed of course). But just want to say that when listening to Pangaea please take into account the condition Miles was in at the time. Maybe that's why gondwana sounds so heartfelt.
