The Monkees "More of the Monkees" Rhino Handmade Deluxe Box Set

Weren't the recordings on the 1987 live album heavily "sweetened"? If so, it's conceivable that the 2001 box set is a more faithful reproduction of the original tapes.

 

Sweetened how? Inglot's mix is far more cohesive and "live" sounding, while the deluxe set sounds like a bunch of bad rough mixes. IMO of course.

 

Well, not so sure after reading Sandoval's book.

Taylor must have been present since they recorded the album version of (Theme From) The Monkees first and he's on that. Let's Dance On was up next, perhaps Boyce & Hart felt as if the song didn't need bass; feeling that Bobby Hart's organ part was bass-y enough? The third and final song recorded during this session, This Just Doesn't Seem To Be My Day, has Taylor on bass. No matter the reason, Taylor couldn't have been late for the session if he's on the first track recorded. Producer's choice seems the most logical answer here. It's not like Taylor would have had any issues playing such a simple rock & roll song. Ron

 

PS None of the songs recorded during this session were singles, or even potential singles. Most of Boyce and Hart's productions were intended as album tracks or for inclusion on the TV show, which was still two months from airing.

 

No. Interviews with Boyce and Hart have cleared this up. Taylor wasnt there when they recorded "Lets Dance On" (for whatever reason) and they had to get the track recorded in its budgeted time, so they did it without him. They did not think it sounded better with no bass, that was never mentioned anywhere (only by you).

Also.......no matter what the studio log says, they could have just done "Lets Dance On" first before Taylor arrived. Thats a much more logical explanation.
All that is known is the session that yielded Lets Dance On was Recorded at RCA Victor Studios, Hollywood, July 6, 1966 from 2-7:30 pm.

Recording in CA was a lot less regimented than recording in NY.

 

I guess it all depends on what/who one believes. The official tape log or memories of Boyce and Hart decades later. Sandoval doesn't mention that Taylor was not present... though this may have been in the liner notes of one of the releases. If it was the first song recorded why would the budgeted time be so important? It was a standard 4 hour session and it was an ultra-simple song for these studio pros. In fact, even a cursory look at Sandoval's book shows that three backing tracks was the standard at the time. The session before this one and several after all yielding three backing tracks per session. I didn't say they thought it sounded better with no bass, but at the time, perhaps they thought bass was not necessary. I can't conceive that time constraints were in play or that the session was not important because it was ONLY an album track. By the way, this was Boyce & Hart's production debut with The Monkees. Ron

 

I disagree with you because the lack of bass guitar on the song is glaring and the bass is really missed. I cant see anyone, lest of all, two seasoned musician/writers "choosing" to not have a bass on it. Also, as I've said, Bobby Hart has explained it was a time issue. He was there, not us.

 

Except for two important distinctions.
1. They weren't really "seasoned pros" at this point. This was their very first Monkees session. The were basically demo guys before this. They were so green that Kirchner had Jack Keller work with them. While it would be unusual not to have bass on a recording, the organ does sort of compensate for it a bit.

2. Whatever Bobby Hart said, he may well have been mistaken. No different than hundreds of quotes by folks "who were there" but have proven to be incorrect. You know, like Pete Townshend saying the Who NEVER recorded Melancholia, when in fact they did. Or Geoff Emerick saying that Paul McCartney recorded Blackbird OUTDOORS with live birds chirping in the background. How about George Martin saying he never mixed the Beatles' first two albums in stereo and not only that, but that someone else had done so years later without his knowledge. Just plain wrong.

Do have Bobby's quotes handy? I'm interested in what he said. Too many holes in the story for me. Especially that they were on such a rigid time constraint and that non-singles were somehow considered throwaways. As mentioned, MOST of their sessions were album tracks and songs intended to be heard in the TV show.

 

The liner notes to the Rhino Handmade box say that the 1987 album was "sonically enhanced" and that the box presents the recordings in their original form "for the first time" "without any sonically sweetened enhancements." The notes don't specify further. For what it's worth, Dan Matovina was involved in preparing the 1987 album, and later he oversaw numerous overdubs on Pete Ham's demo recordings. Even if there were no overdubs on the Monkees album, the engineers might have flown elements in from different performances.

 

According to Davy Jones, the Monkees' TV series has 56 episodes, the Monkees "never got a negative reaction" and "quit when we were at the top of our careers," and Neil Sedaka sings harmonies on "Daydream Believer."

Curiously, on the 1987 Live 1967 album, Bob Rafelson and Bert Schneider were credited as producers. I definitely hear added echo or reverb.

 

I haven't listened to the live 1967 box set in better than a decade, but I do recall there was considerably less audience noise/"ambiance" than on the single disc. There were a LOT of "clams" in the performances so I recall thinking that Rhino did a great job distilling those recordings down to the best performances. I don't think they added punch-ins from one performance to the other, just selected the "cleanest" run-through of each song.

It's all the more regrettable that, thus far, no clean recordings from the 1968 Far East tour have come to light. I know Peter was quoted as saying they were "under-rehearsed," but they had come a long way in just over a year, with only one true public performance (the "Circle Sky" recording / thank you concert in SLC) between those recordings.

 

Discussed here on SH:

Monkees Album by Album Thread

 

Well jeez, all 42 pages worth? The first few details are wrong. Taylor was on the session, not Knechtel. There's nothing to indicate a bass track was replaced with handclaps. Though Sandoval mentions group backing may have been replaced with Boyce, Hart and Hicklin. Ron

 

I think that just means that Inglot added a lot of reverb and ambience (which this stuff desperately needs IMO), while the deluxe set presents the shows "raw" (which is extremely unflattering). There are no "cut aways" or "fly ins" on the Inglot version. Actually, they probably couldn't really do that in 1987 anyway. It's all about the way he mixed the stuff.

 

Love To Love has always had a 1969 vocal. Davy added vocals to ALBM, ALBY, She Hangs Out, 99 Pounds and Violin in early 1967.

Davy, under the direction of Brendan Cahill, added vocals to Love To Love and Mustang on 8/5/69.....as possible new tracks for the Saturday morning reruns.

There was another session for the early 1967 leftovers on 10/3/69, but only Sally got a Micky vocal. Sugar Man and Love Is On The Way were bounced from 4 track to 8 track during this session but were never given vocals. I’m stealing Andrew’s research here.

Davy’s voice actually changed significantly from 67-69. Check out The Girl I Left Behind Me (1966 vocal) into A Man Without A Dream (1969 vocal) on Instant Replay. He found some vibrato and grew up a little. It’s easy to pick out the year his voice was recorded. Same with Mike prior to 1967 to after his tonsils were removed. Micky’s voice just kept jumping octaves from record to record, but he’s a little harder to pinpoint. Peter didn’t sing enough to warrant an assessment.

 

Considering it was one of their earlier recording dates (other recordings were done later in July), it's hard to see how they ran out of time. If it really bothered them, it seems like they would have had time to fix it at one of the later dates. It could also be a case of B & H remembering incorrectly.

Does the pilot version of the song (with B&H vocals in 1965) have bass on it? What was Peter supposed to have been playing in the episode if there's no bass?

 

>>>>>>>>>I dont think the viewers were sophisticated enough listeners to make the connection.

 

This was before Peter knew how to 'turn on.'

 

So, why didn't they do a bass overdub at the same time Micky & company were doing the vocals?

 

Great question, Ken. I can only think that it was for expediencies sake. I do know it was tough to schedule Mickey and Davey in the studio.....those guys got up at 6:00 in the morning to report for hair and makeup and were often still on set at 8:00 pm. Mickey talks about it in his book.

 

Or any other day as many of the songs took more than 1 session to complete. It's silly to say a song didn't make an album because they were in a hurry weeks before other tracks on the same LP were recorded.

 

Even harder to run out of time if it was the first song from the session (July 5, 1966) as alleged by Stereoguy via a Bobby Hart interview. Even some of the earliest songs had subsequent instrumentation overdubbing, including The Kind Of Girl I Could Love, from Mike's first session. I think there's something to say about this being Boyce & Hart's first studio date with the Monkees. The absence of bass indicates, to me at least, that the decision was on purpose. There's really no telling why they would make such a decision, but Taylor being late seems a bit far-fetched. He could EASILY have overdubbed bass later that session (if he was late, or left for some reason), or on any number of subsequent sessions. All of this also presumes that the tape log is incorrect. Ron

 

You guys are are spot-on regarding not putting the 45 vinyl tracks on the CD.

Most all of the Monkees fans on this forum, myself included, are extremely appreciative of everything Andrew Sandoval has done to put together and push Rhino to release these Monkees Super Deluxe Boxed sets, but this trend of putting exclusive tracks only on the bonus 45 vinyl but not on the CD needs to stop.

It is indeed totally annoying and aggravating...and beyond. Why alienate and upset fans by doing this? Record labels are struggling to sell physical media as it is, don't make it any harder.

To be clear, I'm not against having rare mixes/tracks included on vinyl in a premium deluxe set like this. There is a niche of vinyl fans who really love to get cool stuff on vinyl record- and I am thrilled for them to be able to have it- just don't neglect the broader market for those same tracks by leaving them off the CD- it's not cool...It's not cool at all!

I truly believe Andrew is trying to get us the best product and I also believe he values fan feedback and takes it seriously. So Andrew, if you happen to read this post, please stop the practice of not releasing on CD the songs found on the Super Deluxe Boxed sets bonus vinyl 45's. It's not a winning strategy and a lot of fans don't like it.

 

I'll throw my 2 cents in on the exclusive 45 discussion...I really like them! I have them all and quite honestly don't feel any of them are that great that they should have been included on the CD set. Andrew is probably looking at it like we have these tracks, and instead of not releasing them at all, let's put out a little something extra on a single with a nice picture sleeve. I like the format that they have been following for these and by including them they make the presentation of the sets a lot cooler.