The Monkees "More of the Monkees" Rhino Handmade Deluxe Box Set

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by The Spaceman, Dec 13, 2014.

  1. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    They included the original broadcast version (presented out of sequence, as @SJB already mentioned), complete with the commercials that aired that night, as well as a restored version, that is of much higher quality than what we got on the old DVD box set.

    Plus, on the Bonus Disc, you get some outtakes from the special, including the entire, unedited "Listen To The Band" and a few other songs. It's pretty awesome!
     
  2. cabowabodude5150

    cabowabodude5150 Forum Resident

    they backed mine out, so it probably is at the time of shipment, but I left it in my account just to make sure of the money.

    chad
     
  3. D-rock

    D-rock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Same here + the remixes
     
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  4. HELLOLARRY

    HELLOLARRY Forum Resident

    When it comes to the releases, I know I'm going to buy them regardless with few exceptions so I personally didn't see any issues with the Blu-ray set and rarely if ever would buy a set for one particular reason or another.

    With the credit card, I think they will do an authorization from time to time to insure that enough credit is left for the charge. I don't think the charge will actually stick until it ships at which point we'd get a notice. I think that is how it goes - I could be wrong.
     
  5. BobT

    BobT Resident Monkeeman

    I believe that Rhino only takes the money on pre-order if you pay using PayPal. A credit card usually does as Hello Larry stated above.
     
  6. BobT

    BobT Resident Monkeeman

    For me, I am in for the whole set. The total package sells it for me. I am most looking forward to the new mixes of the album tracks, the Mary Mary session, Whatever's Right backing track,and She's So Far Out She's In live with vocal.
     
  7. Gill-man

    Gill-man Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I agree with you about the box set. I think it’s a bit over the top and obnoxious to crap on it over issues with the bonus features. They are bonus features that we did NOT have to have in the box set. They didn’t have to provide them at all. The only true essentials in this box set were the original broadcast episodes. That’s it. Even Head didn’t have to be included in a box set for the “TV series”. Nostalgia or not, the syndicated versions were not essential to this set. Trashing the box and calling it a “disaster” over it’s bonus features is absurd and uncalled for.
     
  8. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    It's human nature for people to get upset over something that is touted, and then not delivered. And one thing I've learned is, the fans of the rerun/syndication romps are passionate in their love for them!

    But what you are saying is what I kept in mind that entire time. That everything beyond the two seasons of the show was pure gravy. I don't think too many people realize that fans of the show were extremely lucky to get a HD restoration of those episodes. Rhino will likely not recoup their costs on the restoration for a while. The sales of the Blu-ray set won't come close to covering those costs. But I applaud them for looking to the future. They're thinking that future syndication or streaming rights fees will eventually help them get back their investment. As big of a fan of the show as I am (and as badly as I wanted this kind of a restoration performed on it), I would have paid $200 just for the series. To get Head, 33 1/3 (itself the beneficiary of a massive upgrade from original vault materials), and a couple of hours of extra content, just makes the box set that much more epic of a release!
     
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  9. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    The whole *experience* was a disaster, not the box itself.

    Again, I think people have the right to complain when paying an outrageous price for something that doesn't deliver what it promised.

    And the packaging was garbage. They could have at least put some effort into it.
     
  10. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    If the release of the Blu-ray box set qualifies as a "disaster" in your life, then you should feel exceptionally good about what a blessed existence you are living!

    It was a release of a TV show from the 60's, that by all rights probably shouldn't have received such an expensive restoration in the first place. If you're a fan of the show, you can count yourself lucky to be able to see it in this kind of condition. Many (arguably, more deserving) shows have not had the love and attention paid to them that The Monkees show has received in this collection.

    Given the myriad number of legal clearances that Rhino had to obtain (most of them simply to present you bonus material that was not related to the show itself), the bumps in the road that we encountered could hardly be called a "disaster". Disappointing, yes. Inconvenient, yes. But a "disaster"?

    Again, if it was for you, consider yourself most fortunate. And if you felt the price was "outrageous", why would you pay it? As I said, Rhino hasn't come close to recouping their initial investment in the show's restoration. That kind of restoration work is quite costly. And they know the audience for the physical product is very limited. Somewhere, you have to find a balance of being able to make some money, without giving it away. Given the size of the audience, the price was reasonable.
     
  11. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    Because I was expecting a well-produced, high-quality package for my money, not a cheap flimsy box that distintegrates in shipment.

    It's not the end of the world. It just changed my view of how to deal with situations like this. No more expensive pre-orders from Rhino.

    It also wasn't particularly helpful when Andrew refused to discuss problems with the box after it had been released. After he got his pre-orders and the box was manufactured, he washed his hands of it. I think that was unfair to the fans who wanted answers, and it had a lot to do with the negative vibes that followed.
     
  12. Michelle66

    Michelle66 Forum Resident

    Ed, this one small post of yours ended up being what has shifted my opinion of the bluray set, and why I'll order one the next time Rhino has a sale. (Maybe something for Black Friday, perhaps?)

    While I'm still smarting about the way Rhino screwed up many aspects of its marketing, manufacturing, and shipping of the bluray collection, finally learning about this previously-unknown gesture is what pushed me off the fence to the "buy" side.

    Often, it's just one tiny detail that's enough to change someone's mind on something, and for me, this is it.
     
  13. action pact

    action pact Forum Resident

    Every once in a while I get the notion to add my own bass track to the recording... but haven't followed through yet.
     
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  14. RickA

    RickA Senior Member

    Location:
    Tampa, FL

    Andrew is such a great guy who loves what he does. As we.... :righton:
     
  15. cartologist

    cartologist Not the world's foremost expert

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Correct.
     
  16. PhoffiFozz

    PhoffiFozz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, 60173
    That's pretty much what I was asking!
    LOL... Me too. I actually think I did this back in the 80's, when I was a teen and on cassette tape somewhere, but even if I have it somewhere still, I have no desire to waste time looking for it. I have no doubts that my current efforts would only bring better results both sonically and performance-wise. But it isn't a high priority for me right now, I'd apparently rather sit on my ass and read and write comments about thinking about doing it! :)
     
  17. George C.

    George C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Littleton, CO
    You know, that is pretty awesome. I've had the crap low vocals version forever.
     
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  18. HELLOLARRY

    HELLOLARRY Forum Resident

    As a collector for some 40+ years, I'm no stranger to having to repurchase things a few times. My thought behind it is the main content when I make such a purchase - is it an upgrade from what I currently have? When it comes to the blu-ray set the answer was yes. There were a lot of imperfections with the original sets on DVD and even back to the VHS set in the 90s. I bought 'em all as each time it was better than what I previously had when I first started recording them off TV in the 80s.

    When I look at something like bonus features, I too feel that is extra and chances are many times that I'll even be upgrading something in my collection that is part of the bonus features. Other times, more material still remains that hasn't been released. When these sets are put together, I'm sure there is a budget to adhere to so sometimes you have to look at where you put it. Take the Jerry Lee Lewis edit as an example. Wasn't a problem in previous releases but somehow that changed along the way. It may have been a question of do we spend X amount of $ clearing the Jerry Lee Lewis segment or do we take that money to clear
    "Randy Scouse Git" and "Someday Man". The complete versions are still out there somewhere and chances are we all have that in our collections. I have all kinds of bits and pieces in my collection that I've had to hang on to because something wasn't complete in an 'ultimate' or 'definitive' edition; an episode of a show was complete on VHS but it was missing a segment on a complete series DVD or things along those lines. These things happen time and time again (see what I did there?)

    If this stuff wasn't released - people would complain. If this stuff is released - people will complain. The common thread is people will complain. It's hard to please the masses because there will always be something to pick apart and criticize. Trust me, I'm a huge nerd about this stuff and love it however at the end of the day, it's only a CD or DVD release - a small part of my life. If one doesn't like it, nobody is forcing you to purchase it. I like reading opinion / review however one can overanalyze something to the point where the subject matter ceases to be entertaining.
     
  19. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Granted, the packaging stunk, and they caught hell for it. And rightly so. As one of the set's biggest defenders (at least as far as Hoffman Forums is concerned), I was quite critical of the packaging design, and the lack of foresight that went into it. But companies aren't perfect. To Rhino's credit, they didn't wait around until there was a huge wave of criticism about it. They got out in front of it, addressed it, and made some important changes. Those of us who were inconvenienced did not need to send back the faulty packaging, we simply received an entirely new, reinforced box a short time later. Though they may have blown it right out of the gate, they made a good-faith effort to correct the problem in a timely manner, and halted all further shipments of the box until it was fixed.

    Most importantly, regarding your last paragraph: a lot of people don't seem to realize that Andrew Sandoval is not an employee of Rhino. He does not have final say on anything that goes out with Rhino's name on it. He advises them, but that's it. Acting as if it was his responsibility to address and/or fix the problems that people were talking about is simply misguided. In fact, he even revealed in one interview that he would have handled one of the rights clearance issues differently from how Rhino chose to. The bottom line is, he's a fan like you and I, working hard to put out stuff that he knows diehard fans would want. He's not lining his pockets from the sales of these Blu-ray's, and in fact has spent some of his own money to present to us some of the cool bonus features on the set. So, holding him responsible for the problems Rhino encountered with this set is misplaced anger.
     
  20. HELLOLARRY

    HELLOLARRY Forum Resident

    Specific to the packaging it was too heavy for the material. I get that they wanted it configured to match the audio box sets but there is a lot of room in there for things to shift around. The audio sets fit more snug into the box.
     
  21. intv7

    intv7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Andrew is not Rhino customer service. He did his job -- went above and beyond to secure clips, by the way -- and once he submits to Rhino, it's not his job to answer your questions about packaging, rights issues, etc.
     
  22. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    Okay, fair enough. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth I guess.
     
  23. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Forum Resident

    Okay, here is what I propose...

    Everyone who has audio and/or video of the summer 1967 song redubs, and/or the 1969-70 Saturday morning song redubs, let's start putting together a database of info regarding what actually exists of this material.

    The song redubs on the Blu-Ray set are there because one person (Andrew Sandoval) had them in his private collection. I remember seeing photos of either film or tape boxes they were going through when this project was being put together. The restorations were done to create high-definition masters for TV. The Blu-Ray set was conceived as a means for gathering additional funding to get it done, in other words, the set was released for collectors because of the restoration work being done on the shows by Sony for television. If it wasn't for that, there would have been no cooperation between Sony and Rhino in the first place. And it's evident that all this material is not in one place, i.e. there is not an archive where they have the different dubs of the shows stored side by side. It's not like someone said, "we have the complete set of redubs but they're not important, let's leave most of them off." We know certain ones exist (or did exist) because they showed up in reruns at one time or another over the years. But otherwise, this is like trying to reassemble a complete set of Chaplin Keystone films. What is out there is out there. (If I am incorrect about this, please point out to me where this stuff is archived, besides eBaY and You Tube. I'd like to be wrong about this.)

    But if all the known variations are catalogued, then at least we know what exists, and hopefully where. This would make it possible for the stuff to be used for some hypothetical project down the line, be it a Handmade compilation or something along the lines of Have You Got It Yet.

    I would love to have gotten all the alternate soundtracks. But I guess my point is, you can't release what you ain't got.

    Again, I'd love to be wrong about this.
     
  24. andrewsandoval

    andrewsandoval Forum Resident

    Location:
    los angeles
    I will address a couple of BluRay issues now that some time has passed:

    1) The Jerry Lee Lewis part was excised because the publishing of the song was in dispute between two parties (neither of them Sony or Rhino). I suggested that Rhino put the money is escrow until the dispute between these parties was resolved, but they countered that they were opening themselves up to a lawsuit - which is true. They said either take the TV special off the box, or edit out the few seconds of that song. When I explained that the special was essential and so was this song, they rolled their eyes - it was a legal issue that I had no control over.

    2) Rhino had good intentions about including the repeat songs in the set, but they assumed they could just dub in the tracks from the stereo album masters. When I explained that the mixes and edits were unique, and we could only do this if the material was found through Sony, we went back to Sony and there was no willingness on their part to allow us to review every source they had to find these or if they even still had them. FYI - the rerun versions are not labelled, which is why they randomly showed up in syndication and on the Japanese laser disc. Frankly, Sony only had one obligation: that was to deliver to Rhino the 58 shows with original music selections. Sony own the rights to syndicate the shows and with such a small number of episodes, their chances of making back the money of their restoration are slim. Each show cost about $5000 to transfer and that was before clearances of the songs. Rhino hasn't sold that many sets, so they aren't making back their money either. That makes any further projects very difficult.

    Every additional song from the reruns required a new publishing clearance, and that was something that Rhino did not understand from the outset. We had many calls and discussions about this - the more I drilled down into the details of the 1969/70 reruns with the people at Rhino & Sony, the more they found it necessary to tune me out. Sony didn't have the hours to deal with these requests, they were on a deadline to deliver the HD versions of the show. Rhino's business and publishing people had no idea from the outset what the myriad of variations were in this property - this was one of dozens of projects they had to clear and they had to chose their battles.

    They did generously allow me to transfer my personal 35mm's of the rerun songs and Ed Reilly also loaned me all of his 16mm film reels - neither of us were paid to do this. We did this to preserve what we could of the show. I also purchased other film outtakes and donated them to the project - I was happy to see these legitimately and professionally presented. That was payment enough.

    3) The packaging: I had no involvement in the design or concept of the packaging. I saw a sample of it and that was it. I assumed that Rhino knew what they were doing. Hey, I didn't like the Good Times packaging either - but it was a hit record and the cover was just one element in a complex and delicate project. My main goal was getting Sony & Rhino to agree to the investment on restoring the show which was about $250k - that took several years. I know for $200 you expected more, and I am sorry, I did not get involved in that end of things. Most of my dealings with Rhino on this set were by phone or email, I did not have access to their customer service, nor could I provide replacements parts. I personally own 3 sets of the box, and 2 of them have issues that I have never gotten fixed - I haven't had the time. Unfortunately, I am the last person for a speedy resolution given the few hours I visit Rhino every year - I honestly do not have an office there and I am only allowed in the building when called for a meeting or appointment. They have security and technically I am a former employee. I know this is obvious to most people here, but for some it was not. I think that they imagine I am getting money for every box sold or I had some financial incentive with the preorders - I only did the promo and hype because I didn't want Rhino to regret their investment after so many years of waiting and watching the film elements degrade. Bottom line - Rhino owed you fixed boxes, I hope everyone got them.

    4) I wanted to address a few of these things personally at the time, but they piled up and when I lurked in to see what was going on, I too got upset. My message to fans was after getting some quite troubling personal and private notes, that I will not share. You may judge that I should have been there more for people, that it was my obligation after sharing my excitement for the project publicly. I understand your point of view, but I did as much as I could under the circumstances. A few fans made it quite clear that I owed them and they owned me - they bought my book, so therefore I was obligated to answer every question they had. If I honestly did not know the answer, they could become quite aggressive and insulting. I too have watched a very small group of people on the road become aggressive and mean with The Monkees and it breaks my heart. So many great people out there, but some fans feel they own this thing and the people involved. It makes me feel bad when I see this, because it switches from love to hate very quickly and it is shocking.

    Maybe this explains a few things, whatever the case, you may now go back to MOTM.
     
  25. MerseyBeatle

    MerseyBeatle Martha my dear (1995-2012)

    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Thank you Andrew for this post, for all your hard work and efforts. Also, thank you for all you do for The Monkees and the fans. I am quite pleased with my BluRay box.

    :cheers:
     
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