The Monkees "More of the Monkees" Rhino Handmade Deluxe Box Set

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by The Spaceman, Dec 13, 2014.

  1. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ventura
    Mike DID take his final bow with The Monkees. He is doing solo shows and a few shows with Micky. He never said that he’d stop performing live.
     
  2. Gill-man

    Gill-man Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    What brightness complaints? I missed those in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
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  3. Finchingfield

    Finchingfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    Henrico, Va
    Back when MTV started showing The Monkees TV show reruns (in 1986?), they had a marathon one weekend, I taped all the episodes. I want to say that they broadcast the episodes where the original episode songs were replaced by other songs. I.e., the episode where Peter falls in love with that cute girl with long hair, the original episode played "I'm A Believer", but this redo played a different song.

    There's no telling (without re-watching) if MTV also edited these episodes so they could squeeze in more TV commercials...
     
  4. George C.

    George C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Littleton, CO
    I'm looking at the NY sessions that Don Kirshner approved to record songs for The Monkees 3rd album if The Monkees hadn't taken control on Headquarters.
    There's already enough songs for an album and we already know how at least 12 of those songs sound.

    Jeff Barry and Andy Kim, who were responsible for The Monkees Changes, already recorded 6 songs at this early stage.

    I'd guess that Neil Diamond's "Black & Blue" would have been Davy, so that's at least 7 Davy songs ready. The Randell/Linzer songs could easily all be Micky, although "Love Is On The Way" could go either way, so that's at least 5 Micky songs. Hard to know if the 3 remaining Barry/Kim songs would have gone to Davy or Micky.

    Would Kirshner have gone back and picked up a couple of older songs, like the early "Mr. Webster" or "I Don't Think You Know Me", or would he have lined up some other songwriters, like Goffin/King for more sessions?

    I'd guess that Mike's one song would have been "You Just May Be The One." (Chip Douglas produced?) Kirshner may have approved the Micky-sung "The Girl I Knew Somewhere."

    I Wanna Be Your Puppy Dog (Randell/Linzer) Songwriters' version:
    Love Is On The Way (Randell/Linzer) Songwriters' version: Sandy Linzer / Denny Randell 45rpms from 1967/68
    Sugar Man (Randell/Linzer) Sugar Man
    I Didn't Know You Had It In You Sally, You're A Real Ball Of Fire (Randell/Lizner)

    Love To Love (Neil Diamond)
    Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You (Neil Diamond)
    Black and Blue (Neil Diamond/Leiber/Stoller) Neil's version: Neil Diamond -- Black And Blue (from Kickin' Myself) + Measles - Subs en español

    Gotta Give it Time (Joey Levine)
    If I Learned To Play The Violin (Resnick/Levine)

    99 Pounds (Jeff Barry)
    You Can't Tie A Mustang Down (Jeff Barry)
    She Hangs Out (Withdrawn single version)
    Poor Little Me (Jeff Barry/Andy Kim)
    The Love You Got Inside (Leiber/Stoller/Jeff Barry/Andy Kim)
    Eve Of My Sorrow (Jeff Barry/Andy Kim)

    I think that The Monkees took control at the right time and dodged a bullet in the process. Some argue that they should have stayed under Kirshner's control. What do you think, given which songs were already recorded at this point?

    Which songs would you have used to make that Kirshner 3rd album?
     
  5. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    As I recall, the MTV/Nick reruns:
    • Were mastered on video, usually from 35mm sources (as opposed to 16mm film prints) for the first time since the Saturday morning run (except for a few which were 16mm sourced)
    • Mostly had the original songs from the first-run NBC airings, with a handful of notable exceptions
    • Were not "edited" per se, but had some rather abrupt fade-ins and fade-outs, especially at the beginning of an episode and at breaks
    • Used the Season 2 show opening on almost every episode, with the first season intro used on one or two episodes (as far as I know, for the first time since 1975 if not earlier)
    • Had a "Colex" (joint venture between Lexington and Columbia) end logo on video replacing the original Screen Gems end logo
    In September 1986, the show was also re-launched in syndication. These mostly came from the same sources, but:
    • The shows were now edited (on video), usually dropping the end-of show "minute short interviews" and/or any stand-alone song segments at the end of a show, but some scenes cut as well
    • "Royal Flush" had different songs from the MTV/Nick version
    • The first ten or so episodes had the theme song placed at the very beginning, before the "cold opening" which is supposed to precede it
    IINM the MTV/Nick versions were rerun on IFC a couple years ago, while the 1986 syndicated "edited on video" masters have been used virtually everywhere else since 1986, again with certain exceptions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
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  6. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    While I agree with what you're saying, some are saying that the Dolenz/Nesmith shows will be touted as "The Monkees", so if that does turn out to be true, then Michael didn't take his final Monkees bow after all...
     
  7. Deano6

    Deano6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Plymouth, NC, USA
    Given the myriad number of legal clearances that Rhino had to obtain (most of them simply to present you bonus material that was not related to the show itself), the bumps in the road that we encountered could hardly be called a "disaster". Disappointing, yes. Inconvenient, yes. But a "disaster"?

    Again, if it was for you, consider yourself most fortunate. And if you felt the price was "outrageous", why would you pay it? As I said, Rhino hasn't come close to recouping their initial investment in the show's restoration. That kind of restoration work is quite costly. And they know the audience for the physical product is very limited. Somewhere, you have to find a balance of being able to make some money, without giving it away. Given the size of the audience, the price was reasonable.[/QUOTE]
     
  8. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    I don't know if I can answer this, as far as choosing 12 songs for an album, as there are still some songs I have not heard.

    Kirshner was still in place as the Headquarters sessions began. He was only removed after the "Little Bit Me" single was released in Canada. I think people tend to forget this, like people tend to forget that Kirshner had not yet been hired at the time of the very earliest recording sessions in 1966 which yielded some of the early Nesmith tracks like "All The King's Horses."

    I think it's clear that the plan was to record an album's worth of "manufactured" songs to have on stand-by in the event that the Monkees' own sessions were not considered releasable.

    But I think it's also clear that had such a Kirshner-centric album been released, it would have been, how do I say this...a much "lesser" album than the one we ultimately got, and as Andrew Sandoval has suggested, an album very similar to Changes.

    Now whether such an album would have sold better or worse than Headquarters, I can't answer that. I think with Sgt. Pepper coming out at the same time, it might have been either a little behind the time, or "ahead of its time" (might have fit in with the factory-assembled bubblegum, not knocking it but just describing it, like the Super K stuff which would emerge circa 1968-70). But Changes pretty much fit right into that scene, and still tanked.

    Maybe they should have released an album under a different group name. They kind of half-heartedly did that with Pisces -- their faces are blank on the front cover, the Monkees guitar logo is hidden in the mushrooms, and on the spine (of the original album), the name "The Monkees" is printed in red ink and kind of obscured by the graphics behind it. But it was still officially released by the Monkees.

    I wonder if they had pulled off an "Alias Pink Puzz" a la Paul Revere and the Raiders, if it would have made any difference. Well, they still ended up with both Headquarters and Pisces as #1 albums, so I guess they did all right.
     
  9. Deano6

    Deano6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Plymouth, NC, USA
    [/QUOTE]
    This is not my post! I accidently hit the wrong button. Sorry all.
     
    Grand_Ennui likes this.
  10. Deano6

    Deano6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Plymouth, NC, USA
    But while I'm here, how did this get so far off topic that you guys are talking about the DVD set. Isn't there a thread for that? Just asking.
     
    marc with a c likes this.
  11. Grand_Ennui

    Grand_Ennui Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI

    People got to talking about the Blu-Ray set because Andrew Sandoval brought it up in his reply post earlier in this thread... I do agree though, that further discussions of the Blu-Ray set should be directed to the thread proper.
     
  12. HELLOLARRY

    HELLOLARRY Forum Resident

    Semantics. Point being is that everything is marketed or hyped in some way. Does not tip the scales for me in any direction when i go to make a purchase.
     
  13. dangiedr

    dangiedr Senior Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    Considering the Phoenix recordings on this set, and their use on Episode #32 of the TV series: Excluding a re-recorded Micky vocal for the brief snippet of "Last Train..." featured in the concert montage of the episode, I have never heard any other re- recorded vocals that were actually used in the episode audio. It sounds like there was recorded signal for all the concert vocals (excluding Micky's vocal mic set up at his drum kit) based on the mono bootleg tape of the full concert that's been "out there" these past 25 years or so. In other words, does anybody hear anything differently in regards to the vocals in the episode that isn't audible on that mono tape? It's been reported that the vocals were all re-recorded for use on the tv show, but excluding Micky on "..Clarksville" I don't hear anything used that wasn't part of the original recording. Maybe other selections were re-recorded, then not used??
    Regardless, I'm so excited to hear these live selections in stereo in a better mix!!
     
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  14. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    How many "farewell tours" have people like Cher and Barry Manilow done? One time back in 2001 when the Monkees were interviewed for an Indiana newspaper, Peter Tork said they were doing their "first annual final tour."
     
  15. super sally

    super sally Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mint Hill, NC USA
    Not entirely relevant to your post but I'd like to throw out that depending on where you lived in the 1970's--- you could have seen a different cut when compared to another market.
    Many local stations cut them down on their own to make room for more commercials, content.
     
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  16. super sally

    super sally Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mint Hill, NC USA

    If we had had a Jeff Barry produced third album, I doubt we'd all be here talking about the Monkees today.
     
  17. readr

    readr Forum Resident

    Here’s what I like. A few of these I never heard, so I couldn’t suggest using them.

    The Girl I Left Behind Me
    A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You
    The Girl I Knew Somewhere
    Of You
    She Hangs Out
    99 Pounds
    Love To Love
    Gotta Give It Time
    Sugar Man
    Black And Blue
    Love Is On The Way
    Eve Of My Sorrow

    So glad this didn’t happen. I have visions of a Partridge Family-like catalogue, the hits tapering off, just this bubblegum stuff.
     
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  18. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    I remember seeing the episode "Hitting The High Seas" with the "Star Collector" segment cut at the end of the show and spliced back into the middle of the episode. Evidently cut for time at some point and when they put it back, it went into the wrong place. But one key difference between 1970s syndication with 16mm film prints and 1980s syndication with shows mastered on video, not in every case, but with film, often TV stations were on their own to make their own edits for time as needed, but once shows started being mastered on tape, they were often pre-cut with the same edits everywhere. I remember reading about people who recorded certain shows like Star Trek or Lost In Space, and traded tapes with people in other parts of the country to cut a complete (or more complete) version of a show back together from different TV stations. Now you can just get the whole series on DVD and be done with it. Those were the days.
     
  19. HELLOLARRY

    HELLOLARRY Forum Resident

    I remember when I was a kid where that would be the same deal when it came to movies. They would always cut the Abbott and Costello films here but other places in the US had different cuts in the film. I'd swap my print with someone elses and had either a complete or reasonably complete print. I had two copies of Get Smart and All in the Family for years as between the two of them I had fairly complete episodes.

    Back to the Monkees though. I believe when the first came back on MTV / Nickelodeon they were complete except for some of the edits made by the syndicator to remove references to NBC (Find the Monkees and Monkees Watch Their Feet) - the latter being falsely faded in after Mike made his initial references to the network plus some chatter between Mike and Peter in the tag of Monkees Mind Their Manor was cut and again falsely faded in. Other than that, there were no cuts to my recollection. Now when my local UHF channel ran them (channel 50), they were edited further.

    Those false fade outs / ins were annoying but I'm glad it was all corrected on the Blu-ray set.
     
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  20. Galley

    Galley Forum Resident

  21. BeatleStair

    BeatleStair Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Wayne, IN
  22. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

  23. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Dunno why the powers that be don't realise that a PAC&J LTD handmade Super Deluxe box is the way to go.
     
    joy stinson likes this.
  24. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

    I mean, maybe in due course, but this needs to be done first.
     
  25. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Perhaps. But this is going to take ages/years for the entire catalog to get the same treatment ( if ever). Just thought there would a been a precedent of the most popular title.
     

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