The myth of Brian Jones creating The Rolling Stones.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MHP, Jun 12, 2022.

  1. Voodoo Chile

    Voodoo Chile Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wonderland
    It was a typo! It's 1962
     
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  2. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    This topic has been discussed for years among Stones fans. Everyone agrees (as you said) that Brian and Stu started the band to play the blues, and that Brian named the band and was the guiding hand in the early days.

    After that, Stones fans get crazy. Jones fans say Mick and Keith are devils. Keith fans say Mick is the devil. Mick Taylor fans say Keith is the devil. Brian fans say the Stones ended when Brian left. Mick Taylor fans say the Stones ended when Mick Taylor left. etc. etc.

    A week ago, I saw them live in Munich. amazing.
     
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  3. Jimmy Phelge

    Jimmy Phelge Edith Grove Alumnus

    I have sympathy for them all.
     
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  4. Meyer

    Meyer Heavy Metal Parking Lot Resident

    I’ve mentioned this in similar threads over the years… Brian was there at the beginning and put the pieces together. He was a fantastic blues guitarist and everybody knows he could pick up just about any instrument and use it to augment a track and make it unique (as well as just plain better).

    He lost his spot in the band the moment Mick and Keith cobbled together their first song, which was something that Brian was not adept at. And he really wasn’t the kind of guy that would say, “hey, we got a good thing going here - I’ll do what I can to help make this band the best in the world” and take on that role long-term. He eventually got bored and felt like he was second-tier in the band. Often being difficult to work with didn’t help his cause with the rest of the band, either.

    He might have gotten the stone rolling, but Mick and Keith pushed it down a far more amazing (and longer) path than if they had simply remained a rhythm and blues cover band under Jones’ direction/vision.
     
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  5. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    What does starting have to do with anything? It's what happens after that matters.
     
  6. Pseudonym

    Pseudonym Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    Pros: Serviceable harmonica player, rhythm guitarist, and slide guitar player; handsome; recruited Ian Stewart.

    Cons: Couldn't write songs, couldn't sing, never played a non-slide guitar solo, played a lot of non-rock instruments during the Stones' tedious non-rock period from 1965 to 1967.

    As far as creating the Stones—Edison didn't invent the light bulb, but he made the first good one. Whether it's correlation or causation, the Stones became the Stones with Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed, with Jones essentially gone.
     
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  7. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll Thread Starter

    Location:
    DK
    Which is full of made-up stories like the one where Brian overdubs Keith and Bill’s guitars without their knowledge, during their first LP session. Firstly, that’s simply a daft theory, secondly it’s was not even possible in 1964, as they recorded on 2-track, making it impossible to wipe any instruments once they were recorded.

    Trynka’s mission was a revenge after reading Keith’s biography. That says it all: He wanted to paint a picture of Jones as a saint.

    Still, there IS some nice stories in that book.

    No he did not form the Rolling Stones (he named them, but that was later). He formed a group with Stu, and then met Mick and Keith who also had a group.

    You could just as well argue it was Mick and Keith deciding to let others in their group.
    The ‘ad’ did not attract Jagger or Richards.
    Jones met Jagger through a jam session.

    Believe what Brian wrote, maybe?
     
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  8. Rich-n-Roll

    Rich-n-Roll Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington State
    :edthumbs:
     
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  9. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll Thread Starter

    Location:
    DK
    Hey, let’s not forget Jones was a great multi-instrumentalist. He provided some really iconic parts on their sixties recordings!
     
  10. speedracer

    speedracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cascadia
    That bit you posted in the OP? That tells us zero about who was moving things along.

    Starting to look like an "OP takes a position and defends against all comers" thread.
     
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  11. Pseudonym

    Pseudonym Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    I wouldn't say he was a great multi-instrumentalist; I'd say he was a multi-instrumentalist. I also differ from most people in that I have zero interest in the Stones during their music hall/granny music/psychedelic period, before they became an actual rock band with "Jumpin' Jack Flash," so that aspect of Jones's career holds little weight for me.
     
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  12. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll Thread Starter

    Location:
    DK
    Oh no?
    So now his own words isn’t good enough either?
    What do you believe?
     
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  13. speedracer

    speedracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cascadia
    There it is. Poor thread hosting imo. Have I challenged your opinion? Not at all, I have simply stated mine. If you host a thread varying opinions will appear, it is poor thread hosting to throw down with every post that does not fit your view.
     
  14. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll Thread Starter

    Location:
    DK
    Fair enough. What I meant with ‘great’ is his capability to come up with insteresting parts and melodies for the arrangements.
     
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  15. spencer1

    spencer1 Great Western Forum Resident

    With Brian gone lots of the interesting unexpected stuff seemed to go with him.
    Marimbas, sitars, strings etc.
    I don't know if he formed them but he sure made them interesting.
     
  16. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll Thread Starter

    Location:
    DK
    With all respect. No, I’m not throwing anything down here. I’m just a bit confused what you believe is ‘wrong’ with the letter and why it doesn’t prove anything. That’s all.
     
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  17. speedracer

    speedracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cascadia
    Nothing "wrong" with it. Have you ever started or joined a band? It is never a collective moment, someone gets the ball rolling. I personally feel that from the available info, Keith's autobiog, various other things out there same as anyone can read, that Brian Jones was the prime mover in this case.
     
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  18. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Jones / Stones ..Sixties ?
    He certainly made them looks interesting also at the forefront in band photos. Camera loved him for sure.
     
  19. jkauff

    jkauff Senior Member

    Location:
    Akron, OH
    Mick reportedly complained to Oldham that the Stones sold almost as many records as the Beatles but they had way less money. Oldham explained songwriting royalties, and told Mick that as long as the Stones were a cover band they’d remain broke. Once Jagger and Richards became successful songwriters, Brian became a “second tier” band member. He was still the photographers’ darling, and he carved out a new role for himself in the band, but the Stones became the Jagger/Richards show.
     
  20. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Exactly. This is why it's a moot point as far as who "created" the band. It's a pointless argument.
     
  21. Ghost of Ziggy

    Ghost of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hell
    Even Keith admits Brian named the band, we can at least agree on that.
     
  22. joy stinson

    joy stinson Secret friend

    Location:
    Dickson. Tn
    Thanks so much for all of this info. I’d thought it was Brian’s band in the beginning but I was so young when the stones hit the scene, had barely learned to read then read late sixties music mags. Someone above called his efforts…”granny music”…..lol, guess it wasn’t “ rock n roll, but I liked it.” It’s amazing how psychedelica became granny.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2022
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  23. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Jones was the Stone's "Jerkbag" just like Lennon was to the Beatles. He was edgy and abusive. But yes, very gifted musically.
     
  24. hulloder72

    hulloder72 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Roma


    Now you have to tell me what Brian does in this song?

    Each lead and rhythm guitar sound can also be seen by eye as well as listening to it comes from Keith like most of the songs,

    Especially in the opening records (19363-1965) I can't find where Brian's contribution to the music of the Stones is except in some slide lines or some arpeggio on "The last time" however few things.

    I think it was important as an image at the beginning, as a catalyst and later as a very good arranger but at the very level of musical contribution and performance almost nothing.
     
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  25. tages

    tages Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Even the Stones made “Granny music”?

    That term has officially jumped the shark, what does it even mean anymore?

    Anyways, I have a real soft spot for Brian. I love what the Stones did afterwards but there was something special he brought to the table. I don’t know if he “created” the Stones but he sure helped keep them interesting.
    [​IMG]
     
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