The Myth of the "Useless" Led Zep Reissue Companion Discs

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by tmtomh, May 13, 2017.

  1. JasonA

    JasonA Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cereal City
    Very cool videos. I would love it if anyone might be able to PM me with more info on the remix (source used) and the complete track.
     
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  2. Roberto899

    Roberto899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Interesting about the history of All Of My Love. I was not aware of that. Makes sense now why it was left off.

    I agree with you about the sound quality of the 3 tracks you mention. It seems in general that album doesn't seem to be the best sounding, but to me the companion disc just gives that album some balls I guess is the only way I can describe it. I don't mind the lower quality of the tracks because for me the feel more than makes up for any audio shortcomings. The murkiness of In The Evening on the proper album always drove me crazy and it being the first song, it just seems to set me up in a bad way for the rest of the album.

    Personally I thought the companion Carouselambra was one of the high points of all the companion discs.

    I do have to say, as time has gone on I have really come to appreciate the companion discs more and more. While some are more successful than others, there is some really great stuff on all of them.
     
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  3. I'm very happy with Coda and III and think some of the others have 1 or 2 great extras. I do wish that the Swan Song was included (even in it's incomplete state) and some additional acoustic jamming material like "That's Alright Mama" that are available on boots (and excellent).
     
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  4. nano nano

    nano nano Forum Resident

    Location:
    IN
    The altered vocals did not bother me when I was a new fan, but I did not have any context. Hearing the live versions on the expanded soundtrack rendered the respective album versions as vocally impaired. I would like to hear Houses without Plant's helium vocals on The Song Remains the Same/The Ocean and Quaalude vocals on No Quarter. Couple these fixes with the the superior Deluxe companion mix of Dancing Days, leave the rest of the originals "as is", and THAT would be the best studio version of that album to my ears.
     
  5. nano nano

    nano nano Forum Resident

    Location:
    IN
    Swan Song's omission, if Page has the tapes, is unfathomable to me.
     
  6. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Agree 100%. He was asked about this once during an interview in 2015, and he said something to the effect that he doesn't consider it a finished song. To this I would respond:
    1. So the f*** what? It's still awesome
    2. Sounds like a finished-enough song to me
    3. Refer to item #1
     
  7. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    I agree, and for the Companion Disks it isn't like he didn't include instrumental un-finished songs on them since he put that one La La tune on the companion for Zep II and St. Tristan's Sword on Coda

    I am not sure if there are any formal studio recordings of Swan Song besides the two audio clips of it we have but even including a cleaned up version of that would have been great
     
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  8. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    And "St. Tristan's Sword" was not a finished song either, yet, the instrumental backing was included on a companion disc.
     
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  9. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Excellent point.

    Yes - even the best-sounding version of Swan Song (or at least the best-sounding version that circulates) is reportedly a 3rd-gen dub, and is plagued by tape flutter. Even if the master copy has that flutter, just run the thing through the Plangent Process or Capstan to digitally remove the flutter, and then release it!
     
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  10. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Interesting. The 1 album I didn't buy. Interesting to know, I will have to give it a listen.

    Txs for clarifying
     
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  11. Jumpin & Changin

    Jumpin & Changin Forum Resident

    Location:
    near Philadelphia
    Overall, I like the bonuses on the reissue campaign. Some are excellent and others seem to be filler. What I am most disappointed about was the decision to do nothing that was released previously via bootlegs. Though even this rule was broken by a few tracks that have been available since the 90's (Jenning's Farm Blues, the Bombay sessions, and a little more). There are some absolute gems on the circulating bootlegs. Sound quality ranges from horrendous to pristine, but mostly falls somewhere in the middle. I'm assuming that Jimmy could have gotten better sounding official versions of those for the masses.

    To apply similar logic to the live recording: We heard the '72 Forum show on the "Burn Like A Candle" bootleg, but that didn't take away from hearing How The West Was Won. I know it's not the same because the audience recordings were done by a taper, not pro-recordings, but if you can upgrade what you have... why not? Jimmy didn't include any LZ1 outtakes due to lack of content, but they exist ('Babe I'm Gonna Leave You' with shouting vocal throughout, etc.). Maybe these will slowly drip out like the Record Store Day tracks, who knows? There are still the few remaining Sunset Sound mixes from the fourth album, as well.
     
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  12. nano nano

    nano nano Forum Resident

    Location:
    IN
    I was a leaf on the original "Oh My God!" tree in circa '97, which debuted the Swan Song outtakes along with ones for Custard Pie, Kashmir, and In the Light. I don't remember any egregious flutter problems. It sounded great but was definitely not official release-worthy fidelity.

    You'll probably recall the guy on Ebay a few years ago who alleged to have the masters of these outtakes. His tapes (based on his samples) WERE release worthy. Check out the version of "Driving to Kashmir" that Page *should* have included on the PG Deluxe:

    Oh My God Kashmir.mp3

    My point is that Page released instrumentals and embryonic versions of songs on other companion discs, so I don't buy his reasoning for Swan Song's denial. If the above sample is from the same source tape, one would also assume that fidelity or tape damage was also not a reason for its absence.

    You gotta love Page...he leaves this prime chunk of Zep light/shade off the official release but was not as shy when he wheeled out the awful "Midnight Moonlight" for The Firm's debut, which was a complete lift of Swan Song, with added length, boredom, back up singers and a typically banal lyric from Rodgers! I also have no clue why he officially released "Driving to Kashmir" on the PG companion, which is merely the standard version's doppelganger. The unreleased outtake above is a killer instrumental that highlights Bonham's hypnotic beat and Jones' eventually inaudible-on-the-master bass line. You suck, Jimmy...
     
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  13. Flaming Torch

    Flaming Torch Forum Resident

    I did not know that Plant wrote the melodies - as you say there are some real beauties.
    Re the bonus discs I have enjoyed them all. Zep 1 I already had the boot of the live recording but it is great that it has (albeit truncated) an official release. I have been reading through this thread and it does make me wish for more archival releases both live and studio (I have loads of boots including the great Studio Magick but it is great to get official releases). Overall I think adding studio material rather than live to the albums was a good call. Re live stuff well where do you start?! Yes in an ideal world it would be like the Dead's Dick's or Dave Pick's.
    How the West was a great release but the powers that be did not follow it up with any more releases.
     
  14. fredhammersmith

    fredhammersmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Oh God I just heard it for the 1st time.
    What's the story? Who's the "singer"? How come Page let that out?
     
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  15. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Well, for one thing he was desperate for companion material for Presence. He said in interviews that it was the one album he was concerned about finding companion material for, until he found "a reel" he hadn't previously been aware of. Given that companion disc has only five tracks and runs about 31 minutes, he probably felt he had to put everything he'd found on the disc. Plus it's just fun - and Zep always liked a bit of silliness. Don't get me wrong - personally I can't stand it and I never listen to it. But it is funny in its way.
     
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  16. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Yeah, the Royal Orleans vocal (presumably Bonzo) is not good for more than a one-time listen. One has to assume JP left behind some alternate guitar parts from his Achilles Last Stand overdubbing session -- an alternate mix with different guitar passages could have been very interesting.

    I also thought some adding a few live tracks to both HOTH and Presence could have been viable options. JP could have used the unreleased versions of Achilles and Nobody's Fault from Knebworth to fill out the Presence companion disc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  17. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Good points - although I remember when this first came out, everyone assumed it was Bonham singing, but I believe Page and/or Plant insisted it's actually Plant (doing his - very bad - impression of Dr. John).

    Regardless, it would have been very interesting to get some live performances on those companion discs. But Page evidently did not want to mix and match.

    I do have to say, we sort of know what an alternate, more typical bonus-track plan might have looked like, because it's what Plant has done on his solo reissues - single-disc releases, with 2-4 bonus tracks, usually a mix of live and studio, added to the end of the main album. It allows for better curation (no need to come up with an entire album's worth of bonus material), for more variation in type of track (live, studio, outtake, b-side, whatever), and for more variation album to album.

    But all that said, I've ended up not liking the way Plant's reissues do it. The bonus tracks feel exactly like what they are - tacked-on odds and ends. And I don't like having them included at the end of the running order of the original albums.

    To be clear, I'm not in any way suggesting you are advocating that way of doing it. Just saying that I find Page's companion-disc approach limited and flawed, but probably less flawed than most of the other alternative scenarios he could've have gone with.
     
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  18. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    It's Plant croaking out Royal Orleans. It doesn't require that great of a leap of imagination to hear it.

    I wanted live bonus tracks mixed in with the studio material, but apparently, that would've made people's heads explode. Why, I really don't know. There must be some live odds and ends that wouldn't really be part of a release of an entire show or tour that would've fit the profile, but Zeppelin fans are so dumb that they would be unduly stressed by such an approach, so it didn't happen.
     
  19. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    I'm sure there are some exceptions, Dazed, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, bits and pieces of blues melodies that were appropriated here and there, but the more significant, substantial songs, like Stairway, The Rain Song, Over The Hills And Far Away, Going to California, Ten Years Gone, etc. -- those are Robert's melodies, and they're perfect.
     
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  20. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    Houses Of The Holy doesn't need to be 'fixed.' It's been 45 years, and there will always be more copies of the original than the 'fix' anyway.

    This revisionism gets a little tired after a while. Nothing's ever good enough.
     
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  21. nano nano

    nano nano Forum Resident

    Location:
    IN
    The "too my ears" part was a clue this was my opinion. Obviously, a thread about alternate versions on the companion discs begets such posts. If you are tired of the whole idea, why chime in at all?
     
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  22. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    The same could be asked of you. Why not just shut up?
     
  23. nano nano

    nano nano Forum Resident

    Location:
    IN
    You're the one who claimed he was tired of all this, but the extra calories you burned typing "shut up" certainly did not help your fatigue. I'm going to spend the rest of my evening "fixing" In Through the Out Door. Don't worry, I won't get you involved -- I don't want to exhaust you... ;)
     
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  24. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    I’m loving the two digital tracks on Spotify for Rock and Roll Sunset Sound mix, and Friends Olympic Studios mix. I wish those would have made the companion discs!
     
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  25. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    Yeah, I definitely would include that one on a self-compiled disc! :cool:
     
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