"The New Linda Ronstadt Documentary Proves Just How Underrated She Is"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Tone, May 24, 2019.

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  1. dh46374

    dh46374 Forum Resident

    You're really taking too much offense at what I wrote. I'm just puzzled at why you keep hammering this point over and over again. It seems to be very important to you, but not to anyone else.

    You don't use the word unethical, but "other artists had more integrity than to do that." sounds about the same to me. Lack of integrity is often behind doing unethical things.

    The Beatles and the Stones did lots of covers in their early days. Their hit singles are not covers to the extent that Linda's are, but so what? Doing a cover is doing a cover. The Beatles and Stones never changed genres completely. Linda did. Does that give her more integrity or less?

    Most of us have listened to Linda long enough, read about her, and watched her on TV to have made our own open-eyed, realistic assessments of her career. We have come to the conclusion that her hit single covers are not a problem for us and we think she deserves the career she's had.

    Her covers seem to be a problem for you. You can keep hammering away at this and hope someone agrees with you eventually, or you can let it go. Or you can do whatever else you want to do. It's a free country.

    I'm not trying to argue with you and I have no problem with you holding your point of view, so please don't take this as criticism or that I think you're wrong. It's just a matter of opinion, and we have different opinions. Many artists have done things that I don't like, but I find that if I'm going to listen to rock at all, I just have to let stuff like that slide.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  2. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    I keep responding because others keep responding — and either misinterpreting what I've written, or missing the point entirely. I'll be happy to go away when people stop doing this.


    Nonsense. You've never heard the term "artistic integrity"? That's an entirely different issue from lack of integrity in, say, business or political dealings.


    Well, that's for sure…no one's hit singles are covers to the extent Linda's are — my very point. In fact, The Beatles never released a cover song as a single in the UK. Their US labels released a small number of them to cash in on the initial unprecedented wave of Beatlemania here in 1964 and put more product on the shelves. The Beatles themselves never authorized any of those single releases.

    The Stones did covers back before they became songwriters. Once they did, it was very rare for them to release a cover as a single. And the songs they covered in their early days were only rarely big hits for other artists. For the most part, the were relatively obscure blues or rock 'n' roll songs that their British fans were unfamiliar with.


    Actually, it's not. For one thing, you're mixing terms again, as so many others have done in this thread. We're not talking about just any "cover"…we're talking about songs that were already proven hits in the past for other artists. Since Linda wasn't a songwriter, all of her songs in effect were covers, even if just of songwriter demos.

    But that's not the issue. If she had released primarily singles that were recordings of songs not previously known and made into hits by others, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That is what every single other artist of her stature did, without exception. As it was, she did this exactly four times ("It's So Easy," "Poor Poor Pitiful Me," "How Do I Make You" and "Get Closer") out of fifteen — and the first two of these get by on technicalities.

    Furthermore, for any artist, particularly in the era we're talking about, the choices made for single releases were crucial. Success with a single paved the way for that artist to record an album, where he/she/they might stretch out all they cared to. As it is, there's a reason you had to sell a million copies of a single to get it certified Gold, but only 500,000 copies of an album. That's how important singles were.


    Particularly with regard to The Beatles, that is such a breathtaking statement that I'm not even gonna go there — other than to say "Yeah, 'I Want to Hold Your Hand' to 'Strawberry Fields Forever'…no change there at all!"


    I think "most of you" just like Linda so much that you're content to ignore this particular aspect of her career. I'm not sure I'd call this an open-eyed, realistic assessment. But it's perfectly OK if this is the path you choose, and I've said time and again I'm not trying to talk anyone into liking Linda or enjoying her music any less than they do now. That has never been my goal.

    I'll stop "hammering away" as soon as others stop trying to argue that it makes no difference whatsoever that she achieved success in a major part of her career using a method that no other artist of her stature came anywhere close to doing. I believe it does make a difference. There are many things I like about Linda, so I guess a part of me wishes she (or those around her) hadn't chosen this path.
     
  3. kirkhawley@q.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I love How Do I Make You. She had no business singing in that style, totally the wrong voice for it. But she did any and she knocked it out of the park.
     
  4. kirkhawley@q.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I saw her in Phoenix. I was totally skeptical. Somebody talked me into going. I remained a skeptic until the end of Accidents Will Happen, I think. Then she let it loose and knocked me over. Suddenly I got it.
     
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  5. fujiyama

    fujiyama Forum Resident

    Location:
    greenwood, sc
    Wow, I read this whole thread. I would disagree that Ronstadt's remakes added nothing to the original releases in every case. Her version of When Will I Be Loved is so drastically different from the Everly Brothers that she should be given songwriting credit. If she had not remade the song, it would probably be totally forgotten today. I did not even remember the original version of Blue Bayou although I had heard it-- it really wasn't a remake of a big hit. And I liked previous versions of You're You're No Good, but Linda's is the definitive version to me, next to the Swinging Blue Jeans.

    Anyway, I've been a Ronstadt fan since 1969. She did release many singles that were not previously hits but they were not huge chart successes. Lose Again and Someone to Lay Down Beside Me were singles but didn't really catch on. But release That'll Be the Day and radio jumped right on the bandwagon. It seems once the record company hit on a formula, they milked it. I would much rather that her singles were not comprised of so many remakes also. I thought there were several unknown songs on most of her albums that should have could have been released as singles.

    Also someone mentioned Love is a Rose as a cover song. At the time Linda put out that song I don't think anyone else had ever released it. Again, many radio stations were slow to play it so the record company withdrew Love Is a Rose/Silver Blue and hurriedly put out Heat Wave/Love is a Rose and radio responded with one of her fastest selling singles.
     
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  6. fujiyama

    fujiyama Forum Resident

    Location:
    greenwood, sc
    "But that's not the issue. If she had released primarily singles that were recordings of songs not previously known and made into hits by others, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That is what every single other artist of her stature did, without exception. As it was, she did this exactly four times ("It's So Easy," "Poor Poor Pitiful Me," "How Do I Make You" and "Get Closer") out of fifteen — and the first two of these get by on technicalities."

    These are singles Ronstadt released that were not recordings of well-known songs or previous hits:
    every Stone Poneys single including Different Drum and Up to My Neck in High Muddy Water/Carnival Bear
    The Long Way Around/ She's A Very Lovely Woman
    Long Long Time
    Love Is a Rose
    Lose Again
    Someone to Lay Down Beside Me
    Easy For You to Say
    Somewhere Out There
    Love Has No Pride
    Don't Know Much (All I Need to Know) was released by Bette Midler but few heard it.
    Adios
    Telling Me Lies
    Dreams to Dream
    Heartbeats Accelerating
    The Blue Train
    Living Like a Fool
    A River For Him
    Colorado
    The Sweetest Gift
    All My Life
    When We Ran

    "As it is, there's a reason you had to sell a million copies of a single to get it certified Gold, but only 500,000 copies of an album. That's how important singles were."

    Also, 500,000 copies of an album made more money for the record company than a million singles.

    "Since Linda wasn't a songwriter, all of her songs in effect were covers, "

    Redefining the term are we? Is this a special rule just for Linda Ronstadt or would that apply to Nancy Sinatra or, for the most part, Streisand also?

    "I keep responding because others keep responding — "

    Does this mean that you are required to have the last word? As I read this thread, I thought this guy keeps beating a dead horse and essentially saying the same thing over and over.
     
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  7. Comet01

    Comet01 Forum Resident

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. dh46374

    dh46374 Forum Resident

    OK. Got it.
     
  9. stillrockin

    stillrockin Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I own almost all of her albums on cd and they remain in very regular rotation in my house not just the "hits". I love Linda and I love her voice and her music.
     
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  10. davenav

    davenav High Plains Grifter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY USA
    My ignore button finger is getting itchy.
     
  11. colinu

    colinu I'm not lazy, I'm energy saving!

    TVO in Ontario broadcast this yesterday - I happened to stumble upon it while browsing. I got to watch the last half. Fortunately it was re-broadcast overnight. Set my PVR - will watch the rest later.
     
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  12. ElvisRocks

    ElvisRocks Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Omaha. NE
    This was a great documentary. Actually paid to watch it on Amazon. She is one of my favorites back in the day. One person I regret not seeing live. She could sing anything and make it her own.
     
  13. bbanderic

    bbanderic Forum Resident

    The criticism of Linda Ronstadt covering songs that were previously well known, as to say somehow it negatively affects her stature as an artist is silliness. To me, the best way to gauge her credibility as an artist is what her peers thought of her at the time and I would say it’s a slam dunk in the affirmative from some of the greatest songwriters in history...Jagger, Henley, Browne etc.
     
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  14. Rick Bartlett

    Rick Bartlett Forum Resident

    Just watched this today.
    I've always liked some of Linda's stuff, and knew some of the back story and the songs,
    but had no idea how great of a vocalist she was to cross the amount of genre's she did.
    Country-Rock to Opera?
    Wowsers!
    That blew me away how she was able to tackle the different projects she did, and completely nail them.
    Not everybody can do that and do it successfully.
    I wasn't aware of the Nelson Riddle material either, how cool!
    The last couple minutes were pretty sad to see her in this deteriorating condition.
    Excellent documentary, thoroughly enjoyed it!
     
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  15. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    NS, Canada
    Had forgotten all about this thread and for a completely different reason, just got the Dvd a few days ago, and watched it for the first time tonight, which made me search for a thread ....

    I liked Different Drum way back when, and she introduced me to Heart Like Wheel. Not a huge fan of her covers of the very well known songs. You’re No Good was known to me in the Betty Everett version, but that Dee Dee Warwick version was new to me, and would be my new favorite version.

    But I may try that Nelson Riddle album soon
     
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  16. footprintsinthesand

    footprintsinthesand Reasons to be cheerful part 1

    Location:
    Dutch mountains
    Just watched this documentary and it was excellent from the beginning to the very end.

    I knew some of Linda's hits and got her Simple Dreams album by coincidence last year.
    But her voice, her talent, her ability to absorb so many music styles and excel ... a stunning experience.
     
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  17. I’ve always been been a fan and always thought that part of the reaction Is driven by jealousy and sexism.
     
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  18. speedracer

    speedracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cascadia
    Linda Ronstadt was phenomenal. I didn't really pay much attention until last year, other than being really happy to hear her on the radio, then I became a stone fanpuppy after listened to some of her live recordings. She was so totally "there", and so gracious and good-humored, amazing presence, seeing her live must have been great and I openly envy posters here who did. I like her studio records a lot, but my standbys are the live material.
     
  19. Just caught this last night. As fine an interpreter of song as any that ever lived. And man, could she pick the song. Respect.
     
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