The Official MAGMA (& Christian Vander) Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Plan9, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    From the couple I have heard, yes they are too compressed and have a uniformly darker tonality, but not smoother or more analog-sounding, just boomy, muddy, thick, boxy. They don't actually improve on depth, resolution or imaging, they don't breathe more... It's a bit puzzling why they have chosen to go a US engineer who seems specialized in Metal bands for the remastering.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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  2. fRa

    fRa Conny Olivetti - Sound Alchemist

    Location:
    Sweden
    Nice version of Zombies, music starts approx 2:42
     
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  3. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Really like the new lineup
     
  4. fRa

    fRa Conny Olivetti - Sound Alchemist

    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes, and Jimmy Top on bass ( son of Jannick Top)
     
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  5. Hundazir Strabehn

    Hundazir Strabehn Kobaïan spoken here

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    A couple more gigs have been officially announced for next year with a third one on the way (Melle).

    1st October Melle
    16th October Six Fours Les Plage
    19th October Valence
     
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  6. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    A nice introductory guide for newcomers!

     
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  7. Hundazir Strabehn

    Hundazir Strabehn Kobaïan spoken here

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    So, what do we think will appear on the forthcoming AKT19 release? A 2020 show?
     
  8. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I wouldn't mind that; when I saw them live earlier this year, it was in the top 3 concerts of my life.
     
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  9. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Switzerland
    Just to crosspost, over the last couple of days I've reviewed the five Mythes et Legendes DVDs over on another thread.
     
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  10. Hundazir Strabehn

    Hundazir Strabehn Kobaïan spoken here

    Location:
    Edinburgh
  11. Hundazir Strabehn

    Hundazir Strabehn Kobaïan spoken here

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    The announcement of a January release of a CD reissue of the 3 albums RETROSPEKTIW I-II-III with a bonus, has generated many questions and assumptions. This bonus is not an excerpt from the concerts but a completely unpublished version, recorded in the studio in January 1979, one of the tracks on one of the 3 albums and is RETROVISION, whose title at that time was still Attahk,

    Season's greetings to all my Kobaian friends out there
     
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  12. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Magma and Seventh Records are now on Bandcamp! > MAGMA

    This is great news beacause it means you can stream the new remasters, and, if you like them, download them in lossless sound (hopefully in Hi-Res?), or order physical media. I think all the official albums and lives are available.
     
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  13. efam

    efam Forum Resident

    Any comment on the new remastering ?
    (Especialy comparing to the previous one on "köhnzert zünd" ?)
     
  14. fRa

    fRa Conny Olivetti - Sound Alchemist

    Location:
    Sweden
    See post 701!
     
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  15. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    To be fair my opinion was based on the couple remasters I have heard, there have been many more since then. All of them being on Bandcamp will facilitate the sound comparisons for sure.
     
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  16. Hundazir Strabehn

    Hundazir Strabehn Kobaïan spoken here

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Prophecy Productions

    As a first teaser offering a hint at the amazing things to come in our 25th year with PROPHECY PRODUCTIONS, we are proud to reveal that we have teamed up with legendary French prog-rockers
    MAGMA
    - the inventors of Zeuhl - for a future collaboration!
    More details in due time …

    Prophexy Productions have signed two legendary prog musicians, British solo artist Arthur Brown and French outfit Magma. New details regarding Magma will be revealed in the near future, while Brown’s signing was a result of a joint agreement made with Magnetic Eye Records.

    An influential figure to shock rock and glam figures such as Alice Cooper, King Diamond, Kiss, Peter Gabriel and Marilyn Manson, Brown is renown for unique stage presence and style. His banshee scream would also go on to inspire a number of heavy metal vocalists.

    “I am delighted to be signing with Prophecy and Magnetic Eye. I have chosen to work with these labels, because they believe in artist development and are therefore interested in the artist’s vision of the direction of the music and overall aesthetic,” Brown said in a statement. “They are adventurous companies. We have already started developing ideas of how we can work together.”

    Truly unique down to their core, Magma was most active in the 1970s, where they sang in a fictional language called Kobaïan, which was created by the band’s drummer and composer Christian Vander. The band were mainly active in the 1970s, but after a nearly two decade long hiatus, they returned in 2004, with the release of K.A (Köhntarkösz Anteria).

    Russell brought his debut album The Crazy World of Arthur Brown live to the United States for the first time since 1969 during a 2017 tour. Magma performed live at the Regent Theater in Los Angeles, California, back in 2016.


    Also there is a user on Youtube called 'From Kobaia with love' who has started posting bootleg audio recordings of Magma from the early to mid nineteen seventies. Might be of interest to the completionists amongst you.
     
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  17. fysyf

    fysyf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nice, France
    I've just A/B'd LIVE/HHAI 2015 version (2017 LP and 2015 CD from the box set - they sound basically the same except the LP seems to be cut at a lower volume) to my 1989 CD and really don't know what to think...
    It's night and day.
    The 2015 version is hyper bass heavy, which gives a menacing feeling to the music, so it, well, works, in a kinda way, especially with this type of music. I can somehow understand why they chose a metal guy, because there definitely is a metal feeling with Magma (among plenty others)

    On the other hand the drums and voices are much clearer in the 1989 version, and the 2015 is definitely louder (and certainly more compressed, although not really brickwalled)

    But when you switch back from the 2015 to the 1989, it lacks bass so much that at first it sounds like you're going from a soundboard to an audience recording !

    It is obvious that they are not the same mix, but if I have read correctly, the 1989 CD was actually the remix and the 2015 the original mix ?

    I'd like to know if the bass-heavy sound in the 2015 comes only from the mix putting the bass (instrument) upfront, or also from the mastering boosting the low-end... (Or inversely if the bass-shy sound in the 1989 comes from the mix or a trebly mastering)

    To those who have it : I never heard the 1975 original LP, is it close to the 2015 version ? Bassier than the 1989 CD ?
     
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  18. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I thought the 2015 was just a remaster of the 1980's mix, but I may be wrong.

    I have the original 1975 Live Hhaï vinyl pressing, I could post samples for comparison, but I don't remember it being super bassy and muffled like the 2015 remaster.
    To my ears (and recollections), both the original vinyl and the 1989 CD were much more tonally balanced than the remaster.
     
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  19. fysyf

    fysyf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nice, France
    So listening to the original LP may be the only way to be sure...
    Actually, I may be wrong when I say that 1989 and 2015 are different mixes, maybe it's just a super boosted low-end mastering but the difference was so huge that I instantly thought they were different mixes.
     
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  20. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Here is an extract from Side C of my 1975 vinyl of Magma - Live: Smash
     
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  21. fysyf

    fysyf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nice, France
    Thanks @Plan9 for posting this sample, it's been very helpful !

    I've compared it to the 1989 CD and the 2015/2017 version and here are my impressions :

    - The 2015 version is closer to the original 1975 LP but with a more bass/boomy sound and more compressed
    - The 1989 CD is dramatically different with a much higher end, and lacking bass. Voices and drums are much more upfront but bass and keyboards sound much lower
    - The best sounding version to my ears is the original 1975 LP as it is the most balanced : it's not as boomy as the latest one, voices and drums are clearer, but it still has plenty of bass to have the "menacing" feeling I was referring to before, much more than on the 1989 CD. This original version is a real pleasure to listen to. Too bad they didn't match it for the 2015 issue...
    - I 'm still not sure if the 1989 CD sound is due to a different mix or a very different mastering. Anyway, if the 1989 CD is indeed a remix, then I'm pretty certain that the original mix was used for the 2015 version, but with a different mastering, bottom-end emphasised and compressed.

    IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER : the "1989 CD" I've done all my comparisons with is actually a rip I made years ago. It is possible that this rip was flawed in some way or another. I would have to find a copy of this CD to be sure.
     
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  22. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Thanks for your impressions. A way to tell a different mix would be the stereo placement of instruments. Also if there are big differences in the balance of instruments (vocals and drums more upfront as you mention), it's likely a different mix.
    I don't have the 1980s CD anymore so I can't compare directly. (There is also a way to know if your CD was ripped correctly and that's comparing it with the results in the Accurip database -only if it's a lossless rip).
    By the way, was that the official Seventh Records CD that you have a rip of, or the bootleg Charly CD?

    There was another remaster of the album that I happen to have, the 2009 Japanese SHM-CD. For this series however, they usually took the 1980s masters and just tweaked them. So it could be interesting to compare. I'll try it when I have the time.


    The 1975 Live is probably the Magma album that has the most variations:

    1975 vinyl
    1988 Charly CD (unofficial, certainly original mix?)
    1989 Seventh CD (remix)
    2009 SHM-CD (remaster, of the remix probably)
    2015 Seventh remaster (of the original mix?)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  23. fysyf

    fysyf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nice, France
    That's what is strange : the stereo placement seems to be exactly the same, there doesn't seem to be any instrument missing or anything, but it is true that vocals and drums (hi-hat and cymbals particularly) sound more upfront. That's why I'm still not clear if it's a different mix or not
    I've tried to compare both with extreme EQ on my amp to kinda remove differences : it's closer but still different.
    Anyway in all cases, both 1975 and 2015 sound more natural than the CD rip I have : the more I compare, the more I dislike this rip.

    Unfortunately, it's lossy

    Well I always assumed it was the Seventh, but actually I'm not quite sure. Could the bad Charly be the origin of this strange sound ? I can't even remember where it came from... my guess is a local library. But it could be a friend who happened to have all Magma CD's in the 90's, I could have borrowed it from him.

    It's true. And to me it's one of the greatest live album of all times ! That's why it's sad if there isn't a good digital version available.
     
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  24. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I had a quick listen to the 2009 SHM-CD remaster and it sounded like the same original mix as my 1975 LP, although I'd have to compare more in depth to be sure.

    The 2009 remaster doesn't lack bass, but is the most compressed version. Here are a couple of samples for comparison: Smash
     
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  25. fysyf

    fysyf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nice, France
    Well it's getting weirder and weirder...
    Thanks to your samples, I've done a quick comparison myself, and to me the 2009 is closer to the 1989 CD than to the original LP.
    (Except it's much louder)
    (By the way, my rip is from the Seventh CD, as I have ËMËHNTÊHT-RÊ and DA ZEUHL WORTZ MEKANÏK which are not on the Charly CD)

    The seventh records page about this album states it was remixed, but they don't say if it's the 1989 or the 2015 version !

    CD MAGMA

    After all, maybe the 1989 was the original mix with just a hyper-trebly mastering, and the 2015 is actually the remix with bass upfront and boosted low-end mastering, thus the hyper-bass sound ?
     
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