The often neglected tweak: speaker rake angle

I didn't check your Mathematics jtw but presuming it is correct, good job on recalling your trigonometry 40 years later. You must have had a good teacher! Given the result of your calculation, the time of day, or more precisely the time the listener has been awake, will be critical for the impact of a 1/4 degree difference in rake angle. Research suggests that human height (predominantly the length of the torso due to spinal compression) could vary by as much as this during waking hours. If we accept that such a small difference in rake angle alters the perceived sound then we must also accept that changes in the listeners height over the waking hours do as well therefore suggesting that such a small adjustment to rake angle is pointless. Just my humble opinion and in order to balance the argument I did tilt my speakers after reading this thread and did notice a difference. Quite a bit more than 1/4 degree though.

 

It doesn't get any more complicated than that.

First off, I would like to comment that this this thread is creative and a stab about an overlooked, but very important aspect of audio playback and should be an intelligent thread.

Since we are in three dimensional space, we should be be concerned with making three dimensional adjustments, all of which are important. An airplane exists and travels in three dimensional space. So, an airplane has three different attitude "adjustments", roll, pitch, and yaw, all along each separate axis.

Higher end turntables have all three of these dimensional adjustments.

It comes of no surprise that speakers do as well.

We all know and understand that the tweeter or the mid distance between the midrange driver and the tweeter should be the point that is level to ear height, when seated in the listening position.

People will usually put bookshelf speakers on stands, to that the tweeters (in a 2-way system), are at the same height as your ears.

Even then, what happens if you get a new sofa?

So, it very much makes sense to "angle" the speaker up or down to adjust to perfect listening, in the sweet spot.

First and most important. Although the OP used his own personal example, it was to illustrate how his solution worked for him, in his situation. It is not really important to question exactly what and how, other than curiosity, which is why I posted a question, which the OP happily answered.

Everybody in audio has their quarky little things that they do that either don't make sense to others or that others feel is simply incorrect. While it might be correct to ask questions, it is highly questionable that you can challenge or take a definite position, without being in the OP's house and sitting in his chair and assuming that you are his twin in all the important body shape that would effect the listing aspects, that would allow you to listen exactly the same as the OP.

As the OP has already stated, some people hear differences (in this and that...).

Not being the OP, but I am given to understand that the OP is concerned with what he is hearing in his precise listening position.

No, it is not going to effect the sound quality throughout the room. Maybe a teeny tiny bit, but not likely to be audible.

My system is the complete opposite than the OP's. I design my system to have synergy between the four different systems and the room itself.

Pretty much anywhere you go in the room and sit in a sofa or chair, or even stand up and walk around, all you have to do is mover your head in different positions to be at that particular sweet spot. Sometimes you can turn around and find multiple sweet spots.

It is just something that I enjoy doing.

It doesn't make the OP's approach wrong, just different. It doesn't make my way wrong, just different.

Actually, I like the OP's approach better than some of the other "scientific" approaches, such as using a LASER pointer to "aim" speakers to a precise point. I doubt that I would require a LASER to point the speakers in my general direction. From there, I would need to listen and make adjustments, to get them dialed in.

 

Oh, brother. Do you have a list of vocabulary I might safely pick from?

 

Please, be my guest, words of wisdom are free for the taking.

That is exactly the reason that they appear here.

Simply put, think of your speakers as an airplane.

 

Thanks for this intelligent response.

I knew my claim would eventually attract some degree of naysayer. The real intent of this thread was merely to suggest considering a parameter that most do not. I only mentioned that detail because I like to write thorough posts and it just so happened that I managed to get the speakers angled within 1/4 degree of each other. As you alluded, it wasn't to claim that everyone should run out and buy a $250 level. My speakers are also equidistant from the forward wall within 1/16" .

Our resident trig guru got me thinking. If one speaker was tilted 1/4° above the relative plane and the other speaker was 1/4° below, that would make for a 1" difference between the two at a 10' distance. Still doesn't seem like much, but then consider the openings of the ears. For my ears, the interior lobe "bowl" (excuse the terminology, the concha cymba?) Is only 1" in diameter.

BTW, my speakers actually sound very good at multiple positions about the room, but still best at the sweet spot.

 

We're all glad that the the original poster is perceiving an improvement. I don't think anyone is questioning that. The question is, how can this small change make such a big difference, since the OP probably doesn't have some kind of vise contraption to align his head. The OP also mentioned that it may be placebo, which is 100% ok.

 

The OP is only relating his personal experience and, as the OP has already noted, he is not recommending that everyone go out and buy a $250 level.

The OP is happy with his system changes and the results. I continually have a wild hair of an idea and start making changes to my system. Changed out the rear tower speakers today.

Again, the OP only offered up his experience as an example, but I believe his stated intentions were to bring more focus on the subject to the speaker rake angle.

It seems so simple that it should be obvious, but it is something that is important and may be often overlooked.

For example, how much do you encounter discussions about the VTA angle of a phono cartridge? Plenty, and that's just the first step in the chain.

Consider for a minute, that the FINAL step in the entire audio chain is the "SPEAKER'S". So I don't think that anyone should underestimate their importance in the overall scheme of things.

 

On one hand we shouldn´t question the validity of personal opinions and experiences, generally; on the other hand there are limits as to what is audible. Many times I believe this conflict has gone so far it´s become an audiophile problem; it´s become a tendency not to make comments at all. And I mean generally.

 

I noticed the same thing, several years back. So now I have gotten things to sound good almost anywhere in the room.

But, there are a few places in the room where the sound is sublime.

One aspect is interesting within the context of this thread. I have all four systems playing right now. Consider that all four speakers have their tweeters at different heights, which, I think, contributes to the many sweet spots in the room.

Also, the same way that you get a "sweet spot" from one set of speakers, having four sets of speakers, allows for many interactions between them, creating an most unlimited number of sweet spots.

 

I do agree you on that one. People's perceptions are just that "their" perceptions. I mostly ignore them now.

Unfortunately, if someone starts a thread about how good their system sounds now with their new pair of "audiophile extra expensive cables", and of course, anything said to be a negative opinion would be viewed as a thread crap.

I actually do not want cables to color my system, so my system plays well with components that I have carefully matched over time.

I use plain old ordinary wire for my speaker cables and interconnects for that very reason and I don't sweat the small stuff.

Here is a peek behind the TV and on the floor.



I have a nice ESS Saber DAC in the Peachtree iNova, to I bring all the digital sources into the Peachtree to convert into analogue.

I have all kinds of amplifier's modern and vintage, SS and tubes. The same goes for speakers, turntables and carts.

I have an Oppo UDP-203, that I use as a transport only. I have CD's DVD's, Blu-ray disks and records.

I still listen to my streaming subscription Pandora channel's every day, including right now. This is despite the obvious given audiophile inherent dislike for "low quality", compressed "lossy" music.

It is not very audiophile like to have several systems playing at the same time. Right now, I'm playing two tube systems and two SS systems. I have new and vintage equipment playing at the same time. Home audio and pro-sound equipment in the same equipment mix.

All systems are pure 2-channel stereo. I use no digital surround sound processing except for decoding HT.

I personally bend or completely disregard about every "audiophile" principle out there.

After all, nobody but me has to listen to this terrible, awful sounding system.

S&G

 

I only recently managed to get my setup to where the vocalist/instrument positions usually don't shift or shift very little, regardless of listening spot. Experimenting with rake angle helped quite a bit in that regard, that and more damping of the forward wall.

 

Here is something funny too.

Now you would think that this really large A7 cabinets would be for listening at distances only. Nothing could be farther than the truth.

First, because of their height, they sound best when standing up and moving around the room listening, which I do a lot of in the evenings, while I am enjoying some adult beverages.

But the surprising thing here is that these can be listened too nearfield! I will sometimes lean against the arm of the blue sofa, while standing and there I hear an incredibly wide and full soundstage. This is at night, when I pull them out and position them a bit differently than in the daytime, since they are on wheels.

That itself is the subject of another A7 aficionado's debate. A7 "purists" don't put wheels under their A7's, they leave them on the floor. mine did not have wheels when they first got here from California on freight lines.



Here is a cabinet after removing it's covering for shipping, right outside of the front door.



Here is my state licensed general contractor putting the wheels on. The wheels were on before they were brought inside for final assembly.

The 511B horns driver's were shipped ahead by UPS as were the JBL 2404 "Baby Cheeks" and their crossovers.

I have a couple of other pairs of A7's and both of their previous owner's put wheels on them.

Anyone actually dealing with speakers of the size and weight appreciates "wheels" or casters of some kind.



Back in both rear corner's the rear tower speakers are on top of credenza's so the sound would not be blocked by the front desk or objects on the floor.



Here is the other rear speaker on the credenza by the front door.

Shown are photos of the Klipsch Icon Series WF-35's, which were just changed out yesterday, in favor of the Boston Acoustic's M-350's.



So, between the large towers in the front, the elevated HF horns and super tweeters on the A7's and the towers on the credenza's you can easily walk around the room with speakers at or near your optimum listening height.

 

I have Tannoy Cheviots. After I set them up for my listening chair, I tilted them upward about 3 to 4 degrees and it radically opened up the sound. Massive sweet spot, which I love. These are not highly resolving speakers, but they are very musical (dual concentric) and they love to be tilted in my room -- 25' x 30' with 9-foot ceiling. Also important -- good anchoring (Isoacoustics Gaia III), distance from wall (close, due to front ports), isosceles dimensions (about 6 feet x 9 feet). I got tired of overly analytical, 3-way tower speakers and began a long search for Musical + Big Sweet Spot. I found it.

 

I believe it's important factor, why would Focal have angles in their higher-end speakers if that was not important.
Given how these sound I know it's right !

 

The next idea that I had was to place a long hinge along the horn support bar on the top of the bass cabinet.

That modification would allow me to tilt the horns downward a bit, so that while sitting, I could be at the same angle to the horns as when I am standing up directly at the center height of the horns.



There is a post with a base on it that supports the rear of the horn and keeps it level.

With a hinge on the front mounting bracket, I could place some shims under the supporting rear post. That would allow me to adjust the height of the rear support, making it higher and tilting the front of the horns rake angle down.