"The Passion Of The Christ"

Hell, a Pentacostal church in Denver this week rolled out a large banner proclaiming 'The Jews Killed Jesus'. They did this to coincide with the release of the movie.

 

This is not true. As a Jew, I can tell you that, in my 51 years I have NEVER heard Jesus mentioned in Temple. To us, he was just another person.


"I disagree, Jeff. FWIW, I have never heard in my life any kind of resentment against Jews for having killed Jesus (and I know a thing or two about this, having studied religion for 6 years). There's no resentment whatsoever - if anything, both at the Catholic school I attended and in the Christian group I frequent Jews are considered our "Brothers in Faith".

Your naivete is shocking. All throughout history, until fairly recently. Easter was cause for Jews all over the world (but especially in Europe) to cower, awaiting the Pogroms that followed the performance of the Passion Play. You are obviously too young to remember any of this, but I have been called "Christ killer" enough times in my childhood to know. Until Pope John's ecumenicism (which Gibson's sect disavows), all of my Christian friends learned in church that He was killed by the Jews. Gibson is trying to undo 40 years of progress between the religions.

 

I share your distaste for those comments. Actually, that's been the most off-putting element of this whole controversy for me: not onscreen violence, not the alleged anti-Semitism**, but the self-righteous, "in your face" attitudes that a lot of traditionalist Catholics, fundamentalist/evangelical Protestants, and political conservatives seem to be exhibiting regarding the movie, and people's reactions to it. I suppose this is unavoidable, given the ongoing culture wars and the reality of a movie that advances a view of Christ and his death that is not only deeply personal, but expressly theological in nature.

Wasn't Dylan's Slow Train Coming met with a similarly mixed reaction when it came out, for many of the same reasons?




** For whatever it's worth--and this is stricly speaking from personal experience--I attended a parochial school through the sixth grade (Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, essentially a fundamentalist denomination), and was always taught that *all* of humanity was responsible for Christ's death due to the sin we had inherited from Adam and Eve. The Jews were never singled out as Christ-killers. (We were, on the other hand, taught that unconverted Jews were going to spend eternity in Hell, but that was a theological tenet that also applied to atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Unitarian Universalists, and any "false" Christians--depending on who you talked to, this category could include anyone from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses to Roman Catholics, non-Lutheran Protestants, and even non-Missouri Synod Lutherans.)

 

Yes. There is a popular christian movie called "Left Behind". I haven watched it yest, as it still sits next to my TV still sealed. From the looks of the back cover, it still has a lot of "Hollywood" fantasy in it.

 

Larry, I repeat myself. In 6 years of studying religion (Catholic, Christian, etc.) I NEVER heard a bad word about Jews or Judaism. NEVER. I do know how things were 100's (or 50, or 40) years ago, but I was just talking about my personal experience. Maybe I have been lucky to be around people who know better, or something. But, I repeat, I have never heard one bad word about Judaism because of the death of Christ.

I don't see why a movie such as The Passion could be found out as to be anti-semitic. It's as if a movie about the Inquisition was branded as anti-christian. YES, people were killed during the Inquisition. YES, it happened. YES, the Pope has apologized about it. NO, I don't believe a movie about it could be called anti-Christian. So, why do you think a movie like Gibson is "trying to undo 40 years or progress"? As I said before, the movie is not about death or violence or blame, is about love and hope. Why is this so difficult to understand?

I'm sorry you were called a "Christ killer", btw.

 

That's my point, you ARE lucky. Mexico has a completely different history than the US. Being a country made up of Christians & Indians, with very few Jews, it's just not as big an issue there as it is in the US or Europe. It's hard to call someone a "Christ killer" when there arent any around!

 

Not only that, there are a lot of Jew haters up here in the US, just waiting to pounce on things like this as an affirmation of their twisted beliefs.

Is it safe to say that Mexico is a Catholic nation? Catholicism appears to be the largest religion in the US, but is not an "official" religion, as it is forbidden by the Constitution to have a government-sanctioned religion. But, there are also a lot of enemies of the Catholic church in the US by many christians and non-christians alike.

 

I've seen Marvin Hier on TV. I've heard his remarks on the New Testament. My translation could be a stretch if solely based on the single sentence I quoted from the L.A. Times. However, if you research what Rabbi Hier has said and been trying to do throughout the "controversy", you will understand where I came from. I think he is one of those who "have a problem with the four Gospels". If I follow your logic on Hier's comment, the Passion as written in the Bible "can inspire anti-Semitism around the world", too. But you can't blame the Bible and try to rewrite it, right?

Anit-Semitism, or racism toward any ethnic group, is a serious charge. It shouldn't be used so liberally that it's being cheapened.

 

"Trivally-minded"? What about "he would proudly take it like carrying his cross"?

There is nothing trival-minded about being proud to be attacked, ridiculed and blacklisted in the name of Jesus. You think it is? I would proudly wear the trival-minded label like a crucifix for supporting Mel Gibson.

 

Friends,

A friendly reminder - intense discussions about this film and the controversy surrounding it are bound to stir strong feelings in all participants. We ask that you thoughtfully consider all posts, respond only with respect, courtesy and that you refrain from generalizations. We prefer that this thread stick more to the actual film as well. We want to see this thread as a succcessful venue for this discussion.

Thank you very much,

Bob

 

It has been inspiring anti-Semitism for 2000 years. That was the POINT of Vatican II, to try to put an end to this. The problem is that Gibson's obscure Christian sect DISAVOWS Vatican II. He would like to take us BACK to the "good old days", and throw out 40 years of tolerance. The term is NOT being used cheaply in this case.

And just WAIT until it's shown in the Middle East, where they are neither Christian OR Jew (except Israel, of course). Let's see how much "love" it inspires there. Or in France, where anti-Semitism is currently rampant...

 

Actually, Catholicism is not the largest religion in the U.S. Protestanism is, clocking in around 50%. Catholicism is around 25%. Perhaps you meant "Christianity" is the largest, which is, of course, true.

 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing myself.... still, there's a considerable Jewish community, and we would never call them "Christ killers" or anything! I don't think the idea ever crossed my mind (or anyone else I knew of!).

Actually, now that I think of, one of my best friends' wife is Jewish... and they got married on a Jewish / Catholic ceremony. It was a beautiful thing to behold - a Rabbi and a Priest blessing a union. It takes on a whole new meaning after reading this thread.

Grant, México is not a Catholic nation in a sense - there's a strict separation between Church and State sin ce the 1800's. The majority of the population *is* Catholic, though. There are lots of Christians and Jewish people, too....

 

Larry, what makes you think this is Gibson's intention (to throw away 40 years of tolerance?). Do you have a source?

I don't get it. Most people who have seen the film have said the movie is not about intolerance... I can't comment because I haven't seen it yet, but apparently, you are presuming the movie is intolerant because of hearsay and Gibson's past. Maybe you should give it a chance - perhaps you could be wrong?

I still think that, if he stayed true to the original source, Christians, Jews and everyone else can feel safe in knowing there won't be any anti-anything feelings about it.

 

Final Warning!

Do not throw any more Gasoline on an already smoldering fire!

We need to move off the religious dogma and back to the film or this thread will be shut down - period!

Thank you for your expected cooperation on this matter!

Bob

 

His rejection of the tenets of Vatican II is my source. His flogging of the film only to right-wingers and his exclusion from pre-screenings of anyone who could possibly disagree with it is a good sign of his agenda. Until recently, I was not aware that Jesus was a Republican.