The peculiar nature of the Sgt. Pepper 50th anniversary mix and its consequences for The White Album

I can understand the interest in the bonus tracks--which was also the key selling point of the Pepper set--but Giles Martin has demonstrated that he doesn't really get the appeal of fully immersive surround mixes. I'm not sure why he doesn't just hand that piece of it off to someone else, since he apparently finds too much discrete information in the rears to be too "distracting".

 

Yes there are many aspects to comparing different versions and saying one "sounds better" doesn't really get into it. It helps to break it down.

My remix would differ from Giles' in that I would center the bass on most tracks, and would not have used the ADT (or whatever you want to call it) on the drums in "Good Morning". The bass AND drums mixed right on ADITL is especially somewhat inexplicable to me.

Still, the stereo positioning overall is much improved over the original, if not exactly how I would do it.

I like the overall sound, including the reverb, compression and mastering.

 

Some spcifics I'm looking forward to on the potential White Album remix:
-USSR-Just an overall stronger sounding track; always sounded comparitively weak on the low end.
-Dear Prudence-Brighter clarity on the drums
-Ob-La-Di-same as USSR
-Bungalow Bill-Overall, sounds like it plays under a pillow...will hopefully be brighter, cleaner, crisper sounding acoustic guitar (especially the mellotron one at the intro)
-Guitar Gently Weeps-Could possibly sound the most updated of them all with beefier drums and bass
-Warm Gun-Again, brighter sounding drums but more than anything, no more sibilance on those backup vocals in the last section of the song
-Julia-A better balanced bottom end (from John's finger picking)which is actually overbearing on the remastered mono vinyl version.
-I Will-better balanced vocal "bass guitar" with crisper acoustic guitar.
-Birthday-True stereo separation on the backing.
-Yer Blues-Beefier drums, more "crunch" on the guitar runs.
-Sexy Sadie-I always thought the drums had a sort of "watery" sound on this track..would like to hear them tighter, snappier.
-Helter Skelter-For me, if I had to name ONE Beatle recording a "sonic mess", this would be it. I hope the remix on this one isn't, as they say, a "missed opportunity".
-Long, Long, Long-As I said in another thread, I've always been turned off by this song due to it's distant sounding texture...the acoustic guitars sounds too soft and low, yet overly metallic and dirty and the drums sound two rooms away.
-Good Night-Hopefully will be more comparable to the richer, cleaner strings heard on Anthology.

...this isn't to say that the songs I didn't mention sound great "as is"...but these specifics are what my ears will be listening for.

 

Some of those issues may be, in fact, the product of technical limitations, but others seem like intentional sound textures to me (like that "distant" resonance in Long Long Long, I think that's the point of that song).

As I said in another thread, I don't think the White Album needs remixing. By then the Beatles gave stereo the same importance as mono, and they attended mixing sessions for both. The original stereo sounds perfectly fine to me. A remix may improve clarity by going to the multitracks, but in terms of stereo image, texture, effects, levels, etc, not much can be improved, IMO.

I'd be interested in a 5.1 mix, though. And of course outtakes and demos (those Esher tapes, dammit)

I'd wish they remixed Rubber Soul instead.

 

I think the recent Pepper box is inferior in every way. The only good thing about it is the packaging. I’m planning on selling mine on Discogs. The surround mix is a wasted opportunity, the bonus tracks aren’t very interesting. The stereo mix sucks the life out of the album.

I won’t be buying a White Album box.

 

In all honesty, if I had to choose just one for a remix, it would be Revolver..and you're probably right about LLL (someone else pretty much said the same thing earlier on another thread). Far as whether or not The White Album *needs* remixing, we can also look at other classic Rock albums that have been remixed over the last 7 or 8 years that, truthfully, weren't in dire need of a remix, but were, nonetheless, improved by it. the best examples i can think of are those of Jethro Tull done by Steven Wilson. Stand Up, War Child, Minstrel In the Gallery, Benefit...I feel those are all perfectly very good sounding albums and remixing wasn't really necessary. But that said, it did make them "even better" (but like you imply, it's all a matter of personal opinion).

 

Forget that the drums are mixed right in ADITL. Why were they mixed to the right rear?

 

"consequences" would be a good one word description of a remixed WA.

 

Couldn't disagree mote. Lovely Rita, original stereo, has always been my go-to headphone demo track. When I demo the USB apple to people, this and Till There Was You ate the tracks I use. It just puts you in a different world, has incredible bass, with a one of a kind soundscape. The new mix has none of the fairy dust of the original.

 

Just give me the 1968 stereo White Album, cut from the original analogue masters, in period replica packaging, and let Giles go F-up the Hollies catalog for a while.

 

I don't do 5.1 so I didn't even know they were!

 

Because The Beatles are SACRED in the scheme of things and you just don't "hand it off" to someone.
Or would u
You like to give your whole estate to your brother in law to manage On your behalf?
Beave

 

I have the the single and deluxe vinyl editions of the 2017 remix and like them.

However the 1967 mix is my go to version. When I saw the 2012 vinyl stereo version (pressed in Germany) at Fry's Electronics for just $15.71 I ran to the counter. There is a certain dark warmth to that mix that the Giles just does not match.
Although Ringo does shine on the 2017 mix.

 

I've no idea, but there is nothing wrong with the drums being mixed to the right rear.

 

Your pepper, I'm a pepper too.

 

I think Long Long Long was the White Album track that gained the most from the 2009 stereo remaster.

On the 1987 CD release, it was muddy as anything - it was as if 2009 wiped the grime from the windows and you could see outside clearly.

I know what you mean about Long Long Long being MEANT to sound distant though.. and I want that kept in a remix - using the 'cleaned window' analogy, Long Long Long is like looking out the window at George playing at the far end of your backyard.. you don't want that right up close, it changes the song's character.

 

This was going to be my question. I sort of understand wanting to update the hard panning in stereo Pepper, but was that even an issue with The White Album? Not that I recall, though honestly its been awhile since I've really listened to it.

(edit: I see this has been fairly well addressed in the latter half of the thread.)

 

I know. Think of the bazooka blast to the head that the introduction of Being For The Benefit Of Mr Kite is in the surround mix and stereo remix.

 

Does Mr. Hoffman have a say in this?

 

White Album ?
Anniversary: My worries it'll sound like Let It Be naked.

 

I would be very happy with a stereo remix of The White Album, especially one that has the punch of the mono-version! I think the ‘New’ Sgt. Pepper’s is an improvement on the old stereo-mix.

 

I think that a good example of his mono-ising everything is the guitar solo in Fixing A Hole which, after having the guitars panned, he moves to the centre. It is infuriating.

 

Exactly. Pepper is a finely tuned, multilayered effervescence of sound whereas the white album is more like a collection of demos in comparison.

 

What these two said.

With the 2017 Pepper, the benefits of improved detail and clarity outweigh the drawback of the loudness IMO. Not sure the raw material of the WA will offer the same potential. And a loud WA would just be a bummer.

But of course I will buy it. Maybe he'll surprise us.

 

I don’t get this “doing a stereo mix to sound like the mono” concept at all. A stereo remix should surely be used as an oppprtunity to make something sound as good and interesting as it can rather than as a tribute to the mono. The mono already exists.