The peculiar nature of the Sgt. Pepper 50th anniversary mix and its consequences for The White Album

Amen

So many aspects of what Giles Martin did with the Sgt Peppers remix that listening with headphones simply accentuates the problems. From the concept to the finished product its a mess imo. A total wasted opportunity that doesnt improve by me placing headphones on.

Im hoping that if he does The Beatles he will change his methodology. If not then I hope its a total disaster and he is never let near anything to do with the Beatles again.

It will never happen, but perhaps years from now and by some sort of miracle Steven Wilson (or someone on his level of remixing finess) will be given access to Rubber Soul to remix the stereo.

 

NO! I love The Hollies!

 

In that song and others in the original stereo (Fixing a Hole comes to mind) I hate the lack of balance: the whole right side of the stereo image is empty most of the time. It's like being deaf in one ear. The remix was needed for these.

There are millions of those around, they were being printed until the 80s. And you can buy a reissue for the packaging.
If you are not interested in remixes, there is always the option not to buy them. Just saying.

 

While doing interviews and promos for the 50th Pepper, Giles said that they (band/Apple/whoever) wanted to bring out this album to the current generation or something along those lines. And modern casual listener does not listen to mono, and considers 60's "wide stereo" sounding weird, especially in the headphones (apparently a lot of people listen to music on earbuds nowadays from the mobile devices) compared to more "conventional" stereo mixes.

So the approach was to make "modern" stereo, but using mono (as the "definitive" band-approved version) as a template for song pitches/speeds, transitions and/or effects. They did do that, but only in some cases, as they didn't notice or chose not to use other traits of mono versions.

But in case of Pepper they were repeating "mono is band's definitive version" over and over again, and yes, it would seem so. But in case of White Album, what are they going to say? It's the first album where band seemed not to do stereo mixes quick (although it seems few of them are so) and were really into stereo at that point. What would be advertised as the definitive version?

 

I think the White Album is one of the handful of Beatles albums that was actually mixed better in stereo than in mono. To me, the uncompressed vinyl of the Sgt. Pepper remix is the new definitive version of that album. I almost never think that about remixes but I really believe that in this case it is a closer representation of the Beatles intent than the original stereo mix. It has some issues but the pros far outweigh the cons. I only wish we could get an uncompressed digital version.

 

I often read that White Album was this dark sounding album and all that. I only understood what that meant when I checked the mono version.
But some mono version's things I like better than stereo, like Paul's vocals in I'm So Tired.

I never understood why the less limited version was used only for the LP and not put on DVD/BD or at least the hi-res internet download.
I can understand the common "casual listener" formats (iTunes, MP3, CD) using version with more limiting, but DVD/BD and hi-res downloads are a niche market.

 

I don't get it either. The difference in compression in this case is massive too. A lot of times the vinyl is only somewhat less compressed.

 

What I understood is that Giles Martin et al were looking for the 'punchy' sound of the mono where the stereo mix dissolves into the far corners of the speakers/stereo-image.

 

Mr. Wilson?

 

I would imagine with as much positive press Giles heard about Pepper 2017 mix he realizes there was as much negative.
Hopefully Giles will take heed of this with new White Album remix release 2018.

 

How about Chris Thomas? He was there!

 

Mark H said: ↑
Just give me the 1968 stereo White Album, cut from the original analogue masters, in period replica packaging, and let Giles go F-up the Hollies catalog for a while.
NO! I love The Hollies!

Doesn't need Giles to F-up The Hollies catalogue it has already been done by Peter Mew.

 

Agreed.

When you get a remix, you're getting the new mixer's artistic vision added to the record, and for better or worse, I like the "original artistic intention" of the recording. I don't even like the product when the original artist goes back and futzes with a work, like when George Lucas re-mastered and fiddled with his Star Wars movies in 1997, I prefer the originals even though he says that the 1997 versions are better.

For example, in one of the above comments, someone said that thanks to today's technology, Giles was able to bring out all these quirky and beautiful sounds the Beatles recorded for Pepper that were then lost when they were "folded down" or whatever (I'm not being flippant, I'm just not a studio tech so don't know the lingo), and that Giles had liberated them so that you could now hear them clearly in all their splendor.

But my thinking is, the "folding down" was part of the artistic process. When the band made those sounds, they did so not with the idea that they would be heard spaciously and separately, but that they would be heard "folded down". It's kind of like a cook adding a pinch of pepper to be mixed in to a stew. He doesn't intend the pinch of pepper to be separated out by your spoon and savored separately, rather he wants the effect of the pepper being blended with the other ingredients.

And even if Paul and Ringo endorse what Giles did, that doesn't sway me, because that's the Paul or Ringo of 2017 talking, not the 1967 guys who made the record.

All that said, I don't mind at all that Giles did the remix or that others are enjoying it. The existence of the remix doesn't prevent me from enjoying the original mix, and it would be churlish of me to say I wish Giles had never done the remix, thus depriving others of the pleasures they are having from it.

But as you said, it's not for me.

 

The utilization of compression in his Pepper mixes is my main issue. Although I’m not crazy with some of the ping pong effects; they don’t bother me as much as the added compression.

 

I agree, but once again, you guys are forgetting that the "original artistic intention" is ONLY in the mono mix. The original stereo, vintage as it may be, is someone else's artistic vision. Things like different speed in SLH or lack of phasing in LSD go to show it's not what the Beatles intended. They worked on the mono mix and that was the album for them.

If Giles had made a remix in mono, I would have said "what's the point?", "don't mess with the Mona Lisa" (or Mono Lisa ) and all that. But stereo is fair game, because as far as I'm concerned, the Beatles never made a stereo mix of Pepper. Not only that, 60s stereo (before the White Album), even though George Martin was present (and not always) received very little time and attention (hence glaring mistakes like the ADT issue in Eleanor Rigby), so remixing with more time and attention, better technical resources, etc is a very good idea. The original versions will still be the mono mixes, but why stick to stereo mixes that do not represent the artists' intentions and that were made with so litlle interest and so many limitations? Remix the whole catalog pre-68 in good stereo, I say. Worst case scenario, we can always go back to the originals.

That said, I see no point in remixing the last three albums, but I'm not opposed to it. If I don't like them, I can ignore them.

 

I agree with whole Lucas analogy but in this case it's not like they added some digital rocks or CGI animals in some of the shots. But the whole "artistic intention" sometimes is how to say, over-emphasized? The whole quirkiness of most of those early to late 60s stereo mixes by band's and George Martin's own admissions turned out like that because of their own lack of experience and most importantly, technical limitations. I don't think it's some artistic "psychedelic" intention that in original Good Morning Good Morning everything is in the left channel except vocals and brass. It's probably because they had to bounce down the tracks and then had so many things crammed onto 1 track of a new tape - not that big of an issue for making a mono mix though.

That doesn't mean that every old recording that had technical limitations should be treated to a modern remix of course.

That is also true and I agree with it. If asked about the sound quality on Chaos & Creation or Memory Almost Full, Paul would probably say something like that it's in your face and "sounds like we are in the room playing" just like he said about Let it Be... Naked.

On this forum I've learned that Beatles were present and participated in mixing 5 out of 13 tracks on the album. So stereo mix has at least around 40% of the "artistic intention"!

I don't think there's much that can be done for the 2-track recordings (considering that a lot of them were lost or wiped or something), but I'd love to check out what can be done with stuff they recorded after they switched to 4-track until the end of the band's existence. But even then, pre-1967 recordings put severe limitations also, because a lot of them have drums, bass and/or guitar locked on the same track.

 

Hardly. Where is the negative press? Unless you're including this website, I saw none. Literally none from any established press.

 

I love the Sgt. Pepper remix. The album rocks so much more for me now and I really look forward to a possible remix of The White Album - my favourite Beatles album.
I'm hoping the acoustic nature of it is brought out more clearly and that the sludge on some of the more rocking tracks is lifted. I feel hopeful that Giles will do a great job, but the one track that concerns me the most is Helter Skelter. I'm so curious to hear what is done with it. It IS a bit of a sonic mess.

 

Yeah, but isn't it supposed to? Paul said he wanted to make a dirty noisy track.

 

Agreed, I did mean from the Hoffman site. I should have added that in my earlier comment. I know I have seen some negative press online. Hope I'm forgiven?

For me the new 2017 mix was a revelation on an already iconic album. This coming from a man who loves the original 1967 mono. I think Giles did a fabulous job into adding new life to this heralded album.

 

Sorry if anybody read or heard this interview with Giles already. You could read or click on the LISTEN link to listen to Giles talk about Pepper and the new 2017 mix. Interesting stuff.


50 Years Later, Producer Remixes 'Sgt. Pepper' To 'Bring It Into The Modern World'

 

Yep.. that's precisely why the White Album needs a different approach to the Pepper remix. They can't say that mono was the definitive version, nor can they say stereo was.

Rather than defaulting to the mono mix as 'decision maker' for 50/50 calls (eg speed of She's Leaving Home), there's gonna be way more latitude for judgement calls by Giles.

 

I have loved this album 45 years, and never had any problem with the original stereo mix, but in my opinion, the new mix is more natural, more balanced, more powerful and much more musical. For me, it's no contest; the new stereo mix is so much better. If you can imagine a scenario in which The Beatles were somehow given the choice between the original mix and something approximating this 2017 mix, it's inconceivable to me that the band would opt for the former.