The Plangent Process

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Stephen Murphy, Dec 8, 2014.

  1. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Well it's a multi variable comparison anyway. But if there's been not pitch stability correction done to test subject A and there has been to test subject B, the pitch relates differences ought to be discernable even if there are also other differences.
     
  2. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I agree 100% :agree:
     
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  3. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The page was saved in the Wayback Machine, but it doesn't appear that any of the audio samples were.

    Plangent Processes - Examples
     
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  4. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Well since as I said this is the first I've heard of the Plangent Process I didn't even know the founder's name and was participating in this thread which was started in 2014. You don't expect me to read all 20 pages do you?

    And the company's website link which I found in that Audiophile Review article stopped me in my tracks saying my browser isn't supported which is BS as someone who's been online with outdated browsers for 20 years visiting all sorts of unknown/new startup websites delivering basically the same GUI design, layouts and Unicode font formatting with videos, audio file downloads having no problems with my browser. What's so special about Plangent Process website that it requires an updated browser while other newer sites don't?

    I just came here from a new Ultimate Press Burger site location in my town I've never been to or heard of but I can at least get a burger and choose fixings without updating my browser.
     
  5. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    That would be a good start, yes.
     
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  6. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    I'm not a digital audio expert, just a self taught technology enthusiast who's hobby is digital imaging and photography. I've done photo restoration work for family and friends who were quite pleased with the results. Photos so damaged over time by process chemical sourced deterioration so bad one would just toss the photo in the trash where I was able to restore to a level of clarity as if it were shot yesterday by a pro photographer.

    Some of the technical language describing what the Plangent Process does for audio in the AR article sound familiar to what I had to do with digital photo restorations especially about reverse pitch filtering or something like that. There's tricks one could do to clean up millions of chemical burns spots in old photos by doing reversal techniques similar to "invert" in Audacity but I wouldn't know how to spot what wow and flutter is doing to overall audio much less spot it listening on headphones.

    This is some of my work I take to be similar to what the Plangent Process does to audio
    which appears seamless. You can't tell what was done. It just sounds better overall.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021 at 2:56 PM
  7. Well alrighty then.
     
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  8. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I don't know what to tell you. If you're using Internet Explorer, Microsoft is phasing it out, gonna discontinue it completely by next June. There are lots sites, and especially lots of internet video and internet applications and animations and security, that you'll find no longer work with what's left of IE. I certainly have that problem with a website I run, and with a lot of website and applications the IT department I work with runs. If that's the outdated browser you're using, I think you'll find it to be increasingly common to encounter problems in the coming months. Might want to think about updating to a browser that's a company is still supporting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021 at 3:40 PM
  9. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    The Plangent Process corrects for audible artifacts of pitch instability and related mechanical effects inherent in tape recording and playback. There are similar mechanical problems inherent in vinyl playback too. Here's a functional definition -- Glossary :

    Wow & Flutter
    A cyclical variation in replay speed which affects the pitch of the recorded material. Wow is a low-speed variation (nominally below 4Hz) which typically occurs once per revolution of the device and may be caused by an off-centre hole on a vinyl record, or a sticking tape on a reel-reel machine. Flutter is a higher speed variation (nomninally above 4Hz) and can often be perceived as a form of intermodulation distortion.

    You'll hear its elimination dramatically when its gone, though obviously in some cases the problems will be worse than in others. For wow, listen to sustained steady parts like long held piano and organ notes. But also you'll notice a much more realistic and less mechanical sort of playback where it sounds more like you're hearing through to the moment of the recording, not listening to artifacts of the recording (or of the playback) itself. For flutter listen to the ease without strain or congestion or loss of detail of HF extension Also listen to the timing of regular rhythm parts. I'm not a big proponent of analysis of audio that focuses on that old audio saw of PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing), but the dramatic reduction in these kinds of timing stability artifacts doesn't have a pretty dramatic effect on the presentation of the pace, rhythm and timing of a recorded performance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021 at 4:01 PM
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  10. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Same thing said to me countless of times from countless forum member discussions I've been on since '98. Never happened never became a common encounter over all those 20 years. I'm not being contentious with you. I'm being factual according to my own experience with browser incompatibility issues on just a handful of websites over all those years.

    So if it's some kind of security issue with my browser it's like telling me they really don't have very valuable information to make it worth my investing in the cost it would take in buying a newer computer with a newer OS that sucks up more and more RAM and hard drive space with each upgrade.

    IOW it's not just updating the browser. It's updating a whole slew of hardware and software interconnectivity and other compatibility issues to make that happen.
     
  11. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Well, all I can say is I started in the internet publishing business back in 1995, when there weren't even that many graphical web browsers out there. And though that's not my business any more, I've been in the media and comms business since and working with media communications on the web through multiple iterations of all kinds of difference client and server side environments in common usages. I say, don't count on being able to use IE 11, if that's what you're using, in any kind of universal way, in the future.
     
  12. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Which requires an A/B comparison to hear the dramatic and noticeable results when it's gone because if it's that subtle lacking a pretty dramatic effect as quoted below which doesn't make sense regarding its efficacy .

     
  13. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Forgot to add I'm using Firefox 48. Safari became useless years ago on my 2010 MacMini and I wouldn't touch Explorer with ten foot pole. Firefox has been working just fine and alerts me when scripts are churning away slowing my download of Youtube videos.

    I just trash the browser cache and toss the YouTube cookie and I'm good to go. What's strange is after tossing the YouTube cookie I still stay logged into my acount. It's just a faster download experience.
     
  14. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Well, you can A/B. There are releases out there that have been done of old music with the Plangent process. There are other differences too because they are remasters so there are EQ and dynamics processing differences maybe, so it's not a single variable comparison, but the time effects can be pretty dramatic when you hear a recording you're familiar with played back without them. But, you know, it's not a consumer technology. It's a B2B technology. They're not trying to demo the tech for us consumers, we aren't in a position to use or not use the process. Honestly, I don't know, it's like LP vs. CD. To me LP's mechanical intrusions and flaws are always present and in the way when I listen to an LP -- the pitch instability from off centeredness, the mechanical roar from motor breakthrough and the burr of the vinyl surface and stylus groove friction, tracking distortion in HF, and of course ticks and pops. You can minimize and minimize and minimize each of these things with different design elements, but you can't get rid of them, and their absence is pretty stark when you play a CD and all of that is gone. I hear that kind of difference when I hear say the Plangentized Aretha Franklin I Never Loved a Man... and Chain of Fools singles compared literally to any and every other release of the material from the same tapes in any other format -- single, LP, CD, stereo, mono. Doesn't really require a single variable A/B to hear the missing distortions.
     
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  15. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Where? I couldn't find them.
     
  16. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I've stayed entirely away from the Apple universe since the days of an old Mac 512 in the earliest '90s, so I have no experience with that. But I think Firefox is up to version 92. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect all web services to be designed to be back compatible with obsolete tech. And Mozilla will give you the new browser for free.
     
  17. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Not online. Like you know, buy or stream the newly released Plangent process versions and compare them the the prior releases of the album you have, just like you'd do comparing any other new master to an old one. Like I said, compare the 2018 Aretha Franklin Atlantic Singles Collection 1967-1970 to any other release of the same material. Compare the Plangentized reissue of Workingman's Dead, to any previous release of the album you've ever heard.
     
  18. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Not unless I upgrade my OS which as I've said is not just an upgrade of the OS but all of my legacy software I've created content on that I must pay at least $500 just so I can read what's on Plangent Processes website.

    Not worth it.
     
  19. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    To be fair, that's not an apples to apples comparison. Different tape transfer, different mastering, and sometimes even different sources.
     
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  20. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I don't know what to tell you about that. I doubt it's going to be the last website or webservice you're going to run into problems with as time rolls on. I hate buying new stuff when old stuff will do. But when the old stuff will no longer do, sometimes I just gotta suck it up and by new stuff.
     
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  21. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    It's not a single variable comparison, but the sonic differences I hear relating to rhythm and speed stability and a kind of elimination of a mechanical scrim that previously seemed to stand between the listener and the moment the music was created is really surprisingly apparent. We're all pretty familiar with with differences of EQ and differences of dynamics processing sounds like. This difference is of a different sort.
     
  22. Experiencereunited

    Experiencereunited Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland
    Anthem Of The Sun was like that for me.
     
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  23. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    There are people who are in a position to use the process who would love to hear exactly what it can do though. The people putting quality records out are part of the same target audience of audio nerds who care about this stuff in the first place.

    If I could pick anything in the world to hear Plangent Processed, totally hypothetical wishlist scenario, I’d love to hear Chuck Berry’s Maybelline. The section right after the solo sounds like some nasty scrape flutter on basically any version I’ve heard. Who knows if the tape even exists anymore though, we all know what happened to most of the Chess catalog…
     
  24. jtiner

    jtiner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maine
    Well, it's a bit low-fi, but here's an NPR interview with Jamie from 2007 that's still available. They play a few snatches of some extremely problematic material. The telephone ringing and the NBC Orchestra air check were on the Plangent site originally.
    Using Digital Tools to Repair Analog Audio
     
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  25. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    A clearer demonstration doesn't exist.:righton:
     
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