The record cutting machine. Questions.

Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

It doesn't. I'm not saying that. But it becomes scientific after the fact, and quite conveniently. The science isn't the guide, it's the art.

Steve has hypotheses. He experiments with different effects, different EQs. That's the scientific method, more or less.

But his interpretation of the results of his fiddling and diddling the dials is art, man, pure and simple.

I think.


TP

 

Re: Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

Firesign Theatre Voice: What?

TP

 

In life if you see something that you can touch, feel, taste, it’s there. Right? You can walk up to a car and touch it, taste it even if you are in to that sort of thing, but anyway it’s real, it’s concrete, it’s there. Now let’s take the number 3, or any number that you like. For me numbers are important very important, but where do they exist? We can draw this squiggly line on a piece of paper and call it a 3. Does that make the number real, or did I just deface my paper? Even if numbers only exist in my head that does that make them any less important. Does the true existence of numbers matter when I balance my checkbook? Probably not, but I’m not going give up wondering and learning. I’ll most likely never cut a record either, but I’d still like to understand the process.

 

Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

Originally posted by Holy Zoo


Ah! But some of us *might* be as good. (uhh... well, not me, but you know what I mean).

Yep!


You see, I don't think things are so black and white here. The truth lies somewhere in between.

Without the science part of what Steve does, one can't be as good.

But even with it, you might not have the ear/talent, and you're hosed.

But maybe you DO have the ear and talent (or become talented through practice).

I don't think Tom denies the science, neither do I-- you're only as good as the tools at your disposal (on the other hand, some of the tools Steve uses are "museum pieces" in some people's eyes.

I'm just saying the human element is the most important part. The man with no soul and no ear will never cut a good record, no matter what he knows.

Talent can come from practice and knowledge, but look at all the guys who have been doing that job for many years and rarely get it right. Was it science that failed them? They have tons of knowledge at their command.

I submit that it is the artist who is important, and to prove my point look no further than Steve Hoffman. A man who was not academically trained in the art of mastering... his work speaks for itself. So uh, HZ, what mastering engineer ya gonna point to to prove me wrong... Hmmmm?

 

Ha!


Take it to the extreme.... let's say you are literally deaf:

Lets say you know everything that Steve knows.

Which includes knowing how to apply what Steve knows.

But you can't hear anything, so you can't apply everything Steve knows, even though you how to.

What point am I making? Umm... I'm honestly not sure anymore.

 

Why did you bring Peter Mew into this, HZ?

 

Re: Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

Well, I can't comment on soul.. but I still think it's possible for that man to cut a good - even great - record, just by following the rules that those that before him learned the hard way.

Now, I'm not saying likely, just possible.

Ain't it?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

HZ, my friend, anything ...is possible.

 

OkeeDokee

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

Can a circle be square?



HZ

 

Not everyone. I got a notice from my bank just last week. They offically eliminated the number 3 (specifically) from all transactions, accounts, you name it. To have access to the number three I must pay a $3.33 surcharge, which I won't see if I don't pay it. I'll be billed every 3 months on the 3rd of the month.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

Are you drinking tonight by any chance?

 

Can a square be a rectangle? Now that someone has mentioned it, it might be time to pop a cork.

 

Can a door be a jar?

I'll drink to that!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

I've heard some pretty square LPs, Daddyo.

 

Good I hate to drink alone (well not really if it wasn't for people having company over wouldn't be so bad).

Cheers!

 

I'm having some Walmart peach flavored water, Andy! Cheers!

 

Sorry I missed this one earlier Tom!

Tom, buddy! For you! I can get it for ya wholesale!

To answer your question, you wouldn't know how to use it. Wood KNOT. You know more than most people about how Steve works, do you think you could do what Steve does? You don't have Steve's hearing, for one thing (not saying you're deef or anything).

It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to BE it. Zillions of people can play the piano, but not everyone can be Mozart.

 

Ludwig van Beethoven wrote many of his masterpieces after he had lost his hearing. Amazing, isn't it.

 

Re: Re: Mr. Hoffman!

I posted this question to Steve some time ago but he never answered it.
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3854#post3854
I wonder if that's because he doesn't want to hurt my (our) feelings.

I heard of "practice makes perfect" but what will practice make a talentless schmuck?

 

TOI explained!

Well, my friend,

People have talent, and then they have skills they hone over countless hours. You would be amazed at what you could learn to hear if you manipulated an equalizer all day for years. You could get probably get incredibly good at it.

If I did what Steve does, all day every day, instead of play, compare and review records and experiment with my stereo, all day every day, for fifteen or twenty years, I think I could be pretty good too. As good? Who knows? Twenty years is a long time. He's got a big jump on me; I could never catch up this late in the game. Wouldn't even try. (And there's no need. He's still alive and kickin'. And who would do my job if I did his?)

That's not me saying how smart I am, or talented. That's me saying it's amazing what you can learn when you do it every day for years and years and really put everything you have into it. There are a lot of smarter, more talented people in audio than I. The reason I know more about records, IMO, and stereo reproduction, IMO, than they do, is mostly because they simply haven't devoted the time and effort I have to the subject, mostly because they don't want to. Can't blame 'em! Most people wouldn't want my job, and they wouldn't want Steve's either, IMO.

I also believe that most people in audio are not well suited to it. They don't do a very good job, IMO. Most audio equipment, upwards of 90% I would guess, just doesn't sound good, IMO. Because the people who made it, IMO, aren't very good at their jobs.

The reviewers who write for all the audio rags? Not too good at their jobs, IMO.

People who make audiophile records, like Groove Note, Audioquest, Chesky and the like? Not too good.

You may think otherwise. I won't argue with you. As I say, IMO.

It's my Theory of Incompetence (TOI). People who say things in the audio mags that I think are nonsense are not evil. They are not taking money under the table to say it. They really believe it. They just don't know what they are talking about. They are incompetent. This theory, ahem, explains much more of the world than any other I could come up with, so it's the one I use. Competitors of mine selling dreadful audiophile records? They really think this crap sounds good! They really do. They are not trying to rip you off. They just don't know any better. They are not very good at their jobs, IMO.

TOI. Try it. See if it works for ya. It's one way to feel better about the world. People aren't bad. They're just bad at their jobs. See? Much better already.

TP

 

Re: TOI explained!

Uh, Mr. Tom, with all due respect:

The mastering engineers you don't seem to care for, Stan Ricker, Bernie, Doug and others have been mastering FOR 30 YEARS OR MORE and THEY don't have it right. So it can't be the 20 years thing, eh?

 

Re: Re: TOI explained!

It can't be just that. I didn't say that, obviously. You have to have talent, and you have to like the sound Steve (and I) like.

Hell, he TAUGHT me that sound. I didn't know what lower midrange was until he showed it to me. One out of twenty audiophiles knows what it is and why it's important. Maybe one out of 50.

And I LOVE Doug Sax before he turned to the dark side and started cutting for Chad.

And Bernie cut great records back in the day. Much more midrange magic (another thing I learned in toto from Steve) in his old records than in his new ones. Why is that? TOI?

You decide!

TP

 

Re: TOI explained!

Originally posted by Humorem
People have talent, and then they have skills they hone over countless hours. You would be amazed at what you could learn to hear if you manipulated an equalizer all day for years. You could get probably get incredibly good at it.

That's not me saying how smart I am, or talented. That's me saying it's amazing what you can learn when you do it every day for years and years and really put everything you have into it. There are a lot of smarter, more talented people in audio than I. The reason I know more about records, IMO, and stereo reproduction, IMO, than they do, is mostly because they simply haven't devoted the time and effort I have to the subject, mostly because they don't want to.

Great points, Tom. I have to admit that when people tell me that they couldn't draw to save their life that my attitude is that anyone can learn to draw-- and draw well, if given only a little bit of instruction. I can point to people who have done it.

I also believe that most people in audio are not well suited to it. They don't do a very good job, IMO. Most audio equipment, upwards of 90% I would guess, just doesn't sound good, IMO. Because the people who made it, IMO, aren't very good at their jobs.

That's true of everything though, Humorem.

It's my Theory of Incompetence (TOI). People who say things in the audio mags that I think are nonsense are not evil. They are not taking money under the table to say it. They really believe it. They just don't know what they are talking about. They are incompetent. This theory, ahem, explains much more of the world than any other I could come up with, so it's the one I use. Competitors of mine selling dreadful audiophile records? They really think this crap sounds good! They really do. They are not trying to rip you off. They just don't know any better. They are not very good at their jobs, IMO.

TOI. Try it. See if it works for ya. It's one way to feel better about the world. People aren't bad. They're just bad at their jobs. See? Much better already. TP

LOL! The logic is hard to argue against. I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for sharing that!