The Rolling Stones ' Black and Blue ' Is Great --- Why Does It Get Beat Up So Much ?

That outtakes list left me thinking of an alternate Black and Blue that could satisfy both lovers and haters of the album:

Start Me Up
Fool to Cry
Slave
Hand of Fate
Memory Motel
-
Hot Stuff
Hey Negrita
Worried About You
Crazy Mama
Waiting on a Friend - in the early 1975 sessions, they tried to record this one again after the GHS master take, so I'll consider it

Another issue with the album is that is was released after the tour in support of it. And it was already 99% finished in July 1975. Why wait a full year?

 

Maybe they held out hope that they would still come up with some better material. I have always said adding Slave and Worried About You would have helped it in my opinion.

 

Interesting. I don't fully agree as NME was behind Sounds (another UK weekly music paper) went it came to the punk/new wave support. I love B&B but it is a bit (!) different to the Stones albums before it. I have a suspicion that if the Stones had played live in the UK in 77 or 78 many of the punk/new wave musicians and a fair number of music writers would have been there grooving away! You are right about the influence of a few writers but at least they were independent ie not corporate voices.

 

But if they did that what would Tattoo You have looked like? Besides, Start Me Up and Waiting on a Friend were nowhere near ready.

 

They had plenty of material which could have been used on Tattoo You. Chris Kimsey said he made a list of about 25 tracks and the Stones chose from the list. They also had all of the material which ended up on the Some Girls Deluxe Edition bonus disc.

 

Probably because they hadn't toured either IOR&R or GHS in America so in '75 they still had two albums to promote plus Made In The Shade.
There was no need to rush a 3rd studio album on to the US market to promote that summer.

 

Thanks. A bit off topic I guess but was Undercover (not a favourite of mine) an album where as far as we know the Stones started in terms of songs from scratch?

 

It was really an anti Mick thing more than an anti Stones feeling. He was just the figurehead for excess like Rod. Nick Kent, Barbara Charone and CSM et al all loved Keith and Ronnie. Also the Floyd, Yes, ELP axis had it far worse from the press than the Stones did. As I said up thread it was the rip-off feeling generated by the Earls Court shows that turned fans against them. Zeppelin did the same thing more or less by camping out at Earls Court the year before but the sound was nigh on perfect and the performances were incredible. The feeling was that it was Mick not so much the Stones who had descended into self parody at Earls Court. That he was so jaded about being the singer of the Stones that enunciating consonants was simply too much trouble. You can hear that effect on the LA Friday album from the previous year. Though once the fuss died down they redeemed themselves a bit at Knebworth and the press definitely kept supporting the band through the Miss You period and absolutely wet themselves over the New Barbarians in 79.

 

Delving into alternate histories is a slippery slope, since Tattoo You has such a specific identity (who would ever think such an album would make any "10 best Stones albums ever" list?) but I agree with you there's a heck of a lot of very strong material that could have filled it out. I certainly would have enjoyed a Black and Blue with Dr. Robert's track list more than the released version, my well documented disdain for Fool to Cry notwithstanding.

 

Can I have your gear?

 

There's also this song from Undercover, which was based on a riff from these 1975 sessions (Cellophane Trousers). What do you all think about it? I think it's pretty good, and if it had been finished in 75 would make a worthy inclusion on B&B

 

I like it just fine.
' Undercover '--underrated.

 

A different take on that, with only songs that were started in '75, would look like this:

Start Me Up (Tattoo You)
Fool to Cry (Black and Blue)
Slave (Tattoo You)
Hand of Fate (Black and Blue)
Memory Motel (Black and Blue)
-
Hot Stuff (Black and Blue)
Too Tough (Undercover)
Hey Negrita (Black and Blue)
Crazy Mama (Black and Blue)
Worried About You (Tattoo You)

This is pretty long, at about 49 minutes. But I'd hope they shave off 30 seconds from Hot Stuff, Fool to Cry and Memory Motel

 

Well, that is rather kind of you to compliment my gear that way...

 

This!^
Beave

 

My fav Stones album. Better than anything you could have made from the highlights of the 2 that preceded it. Every track is excellent (perhaps the only time they pulled this off) and it is the start of an amazing 4 album run through Tattoo You.

Also their best sounding recording of then60s-70s and the only studio album where they really jam on more than one song.

 

Just a thought experiment...

Side 1:
01. It's Only Rock 'n Roll
02. 100 Years Ago
03. Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)
04. Coming Down Again
05. Time Waits for No One

Side 2:
01. Angie
02. Silver Train
03. Winter
04. Fingerprint File
05. Star Star

I dunno. I think that's a pretty killer album. Better than Black and Blue? I dunno. I'd very happily listen to either.

 

That's made more palatable by Angie opening a side so I could just put the needle down at track 2

But I would rather ditch it in favor of Ain't Too Proud To Beg

 

Personally, I would add Dancing With Mr. D, If You Can't Rock Me and Ain't Too Proud To Beg and remove Coming Down Again, Angie and Silver Train.

 

If anything, I use Silver Train (first recorded in Oct. 1970) in my alternate Sticky Fingers, in place of Sister Morphine, which is from the Let it Bleed sessions:

Brown Sugar
Sway
Wild Horses
Can't You Hear Me Knockin'
You Gotta Move
-
Bitch
I Got the Blues
Silver Train
Dead Flowers
Moonlight Mile

Adding ST helps in adding another rocker to an album that only has three of those (Brown Sugar, the first half of Knockin' and Bitch), and keeps the album making chronological sense. And no need to give Marianne Faithfull writing credit on that one!

 

Well said, hear, hear. Especially like the preconceptions bit.

 

As someone who has listened more to Stones' compilations than to real original albums, the few I've listened to and liked are: Goats Head Soup, Black and Blue, Emotional Rescue (I was pleasantly surprised by the Where The Boys Go ) and Tattoo You. I know I should give a listen to their earlier albums too and not stick to these albums but I guess I have a preference for a more maturer sound of the Stones.

Concerning Black and Blue. I think it is a great presentation of the Rolling Stones. I'd say it's a rather intimate album. Atmosphere/ambiance wise talking. Sort of like being in one room with them during a rehearsal kinda feel. You just sit there and get a complete Stones feast for your ears. This is the typical Stones' sound. The structure of songs, so familiar and yet creative, surprising, immediately recognisable as The Rolling Stones.

The vocals are wel placed and yes... again surprising at certain moments. I don't mind this kind of surprise. Black and Blue is a "classic". It is one of those albums that defy what kind of band the Rolling Stones are. You hear any track of that album and you know it's them. Why them? 'Cause it can't be anybody else.

 

Black, blue and very bad taste: the Rolling Stones billboard that still sparks controversy (The Guardian)

 

Hand of Fate is one of my favorite songs.

 

Was watching a few of the videos from that Sea of Tranquility guy on YouTube last night. He reviews and ranks entire discographies from various artists.
Anyway...he did one on the Stones and ' Black and Blue ' was ranked very low , in the bottom five which I thought was odd. He ranked all their other 70s and 80s efforts much higher.