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The Rush cd mastering thread (part 2)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by -Alan, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. -Alan

    -Alan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
  2. Majestyk

    Majestyk Rush Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I wonder if this will get as big as part 1?
     
  3. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Actually, I'm referring to the non-remastered AMCYs, dynamics and all. Signals, for example, has an AMCY identical to the SHM. It's a well kept secret. :)
     
    pmaraujo likes this.
  4. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast

    Lets go over what we know about the SHM's, Please add as needed:

    - SHM [or was it the mini-lp?] of Power Windows is same as the 35 8p
    - SHM of Signals is same the 1st AMCY

    I like the SHM/AMCY Signals. Have not yet direct compared to any other issue.

    I thought the SHM of Hemisphere [borrowed a copy] was severely dynamically compromised and awful. I forgot to run the EAC's before returning it, but it might me the same as the 1997 remaster which I disliked very strongly.
     
  5. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    SHM = MiniLP in these cases.

    Only the vinyl is superior IMO. :)

    The Grace Under Pressure SHM is a dud unfortunately. Hold Your Fire SHM is similar to other releases but an improvement.
     
  6. btomarra

    btomarra Classic Rock Audiophile

    Location:
    Little Rock, AR
    Can someone help me understand the Atomic pressing variations.

    I have a Made in USA Grace Under Pressure (which was one of a few titles that kept the Atomic design). Underneath it says "Made in USA by PDO". I was trying to get an earlier pressing. Preferably Made in West Germany or Made in W Germany with Made in USA @9:00.

    Instead I received a Made in Germany (which is after reunification) for USA (@9:00). It has th GEMA mark but says underneath Made in Germany by PMDC but has silver stacking ring.

    Did I come out the same?
     
  7. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Clear Highs, Deep Lows

    Location:
    California, USA
    SHF member b_squared put together a spreadsheet with all of his known masterings. The list is pretty dang complete. You can click on the link to his spreadsheet at the bottom of post 750 of part 1 of this thread.

    It looks like there is no information for Atomic CD of that album in the spreadsheet. You may want to post peak level information so others can compare with yours. Otherwise, you can wade through the 50 pages of posts in part 1.
     
  8. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    We need EAC peak value #'s, and then we can compare to what's out there already. :)
     
  9. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    IIRC, all Atomic GUPs are the same, regardless of origin.
     
  10. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    ^^^

    But that's not the case for all releases. So you can't be sure unless you look at them. :)
     
  11. btomarra

    btomarra Classic Rock Audiophile

    Location:
    Little Rock, AR
    I can post them as I have to download the software and learn how to do that. Problem is as has been illustrated with Dark Side of the Moon JPN pressings, the TO, non TO, Grail all have the exact same peak values but according to many here don't sound the same.


    My Germany 4 US on Phonogram beats my US for PDO Atomic in SQ when I did a side by side comparison.

    All I meant by my earlier post was (and I should have been clearer. Sorry): of those two GUP pressings I have which was pressed earlier?
     
  12. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    EAC peak numbers at least say if the masterings are the same. If the mastering is the same, but if they are pressed at different plants and different times and if there is a real or perceived audible difference, that's an entirely different question IMO. :)
     
  13. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Speaking of which. I think kevin, you were asking about the SHM 2112 being identical to the 25.8P? Well, I've confirmed that the peak levels for the 2112 AMCY are identical to the 25.8P. So unless the SHM 2112 is '97 Remaster copy, it is 99.9% likely to be the 25.8P/AMCY.

    BTW, kevin, did you ever test the AMCY/SHM Moving Pictures?
     
  14. Masza

    Masza Forum Resident

    Location:
    Finland
  15. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
  16. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    Do we have the peak numbers for the SHM 2112? They do match the AMCY/25.8P?



    How to generate those graphs: read the wav file into Audacity. I can't remember the exact menu commands, but there is a way to get at the spectral analysis (EQ). Export the file. I use 4096 for the sampling.

    Then you need to read that text file into Excel, and then you can subtract 2 or more spectras and make a neat graph like that. Remember, it doesn't say which one is correct, but it helps to understand how 2 CDs sound in comparison to each other.
     
  17. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Nope. 97.7% through the board. It's a '97 Remaster clone for this one. :(
     
  18. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    Got it. :) Weird how some of the SHM's are so good, but some ... not so.
     
  19. agentalbert

    agentalbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    I know that the 258P Japanese pressings of A Farewell To Kings has a different mastering than the more common WG Atomic or Anthem, but can anyone who has heard both tell me how they differ sound wise?

    I was listening to my Canadian Anthem CD today and it sounds brighter than I would like. Maybe its just the mix, but can anyone who has heard the Japanese pressings tell me if it has a noticeably less bright sound?
     
  20. Stefanoz

    Stefanoz New Member

    So, regarding the SHM, so far we have

    2112 = 1997
    Hemispheres = 1997
    Signals = AMCY
    Power Windows = 25.8P/32.8P
    Hold Your Fire = Atomic/ANC/AMCY

    How about the others SHM?
    Has anybody compared peaks to see which masters they match?
    Is there any SHM unique master?

    Cheers!
    Stefano
     
    Mr.Sean and Beech like this.
  21. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Yes.

    Didn't personally test this one, so I don't know.

    Yes.

    No, this SHM was unique from the other versions we had samples of (AMCY and Atomic). Since the Anthem appears to be identical to the AMCY/Atomic, the best guess is that the HYF SHM is the HYF 25.8P(32.P?). We need a sample from that CD to confirm. :p

    The SHM for Farewell to Kings is another 1997 copy.

    The SHM for Moving Pictures is identical to the AMCY Moving Pictures. Based on the peak values, the AMCY appears to be a re-leveled 25.8P, but I have not yet confirmed this (Kevin? :D).

    Grace Under Pressure SHM is unique from all tested CDs (Anthem, Atomic, 25.8P, 1997), so it is logical to assume that it is a copy of the not-yet-testing AMCY GUP.

    Based on the available evidence, there are NO SHMs that are unique masters.

    Also, so there's no confusion, the AMCYs (NOT the SHM as Stefanoz correctly pointed out) for 2112 and Farewell to Kings are identical to the corresponding 25.8Ps.
     
  22. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    From listening to it, the AMCY A Farewell to Kings (as pointed out above, is identical to the 25.8P) has a bright sound as well. According to some previous comments by Fizbin, the 25.8P/AMCY is actually brighter than the Anthem. So the Anthem is still the best release for AFtK. You may want to try the Atomic/Mercury AFtK, which is unique from the Anthem.
     
  23. Stefanoz

    Stefanoz New Member


    Hey Ambassador, awesome reply!
    Thanks!

    I have the 25.8P and the 32.8P HYF here. I'll get the peaks and post them here.
    I also bought today a GUP AMCY, and I should get it in a couple of weekes - then I can post its peaks too.

    By the way, is there a way of reading peaks on the EAC without extracting the songs?

    Cheers!
     
  24. Stefanoz

    Stefanoz New Member

    HYF 32.8P:

    99.9% / 100% / 100% / 100% / 100% / 100% / 100% / 100% / 89.3% / 100%


    TOC of the extracted CD

    Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1 | 0:00.00 | 4:33.25 | 0 | 20499
    2 | 4:33.25 | 5:08.67 | 20500 | 43666
    3 | 9:42.17 | 5:38.25 | 43667 | 69041
    4 | 15:20.42 | 4:36.33 | 69042 | 89774
    5 | 19:57.00 | 5:20.37 | 89775 | 113811
    6 | 25:17.37 | 5:09.55 | 113812 | 137041
    7 | 30:27.17 | 5:17.40 | 137042 | 160856
    8 | 35:44.57 | 4:55.08 | 160857 | 182989
    9 | 40:39.65 | 4:17.05 | 182990 | 202269
    10 | 44:56.70 | 5:34.55 | 202270 | 227374


    Track 1

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\01 Force Ten.wav

    Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00

    Peak level 99.9 %
    Extraction speed 2.4 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC B63EF1DD
    Copy CRC B63EF1DD
    Copy OK

    Track 2

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\02 Time Stand Still.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 2.8 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 987A9768
    Copy CRC 987A9768
    Copy OK

    Track 3

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\03 Open Secrets.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 2.9 X
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Test CRC 3332D3A1
    Copy CRC 3332D3A1
    Copy OK

    Track 4

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\04 Second Nature.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 3.3 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 51878D29
    Copy CRC 51878D29
    Copy OK

    Track 5

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\05 Prime Mover.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 3.6 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC EF38D3F6
    Copy CRC EF38D3F6
    Copy OK

    Track 6

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\06 Lock And Key.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 3.5 X
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Test CRC B37F0D71
    Copy CRC B37F0D71
    Copy OK

    Track 7

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\07 Mission.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 4.1 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 5C5636E5
    Copy CRC 5C5636E5
    Copy OK

    Track 8

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\08 Turn The Page.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 3.9 X
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Test CRC B3491CFA
    Copy CRC B3491CFA
    Copy OK

    Track 9

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\09 Tai Shan.wav

    Peak level 89.3 %
    Extraction speed 4.4 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC AC39A17D
    Copy CRC AC39A17D
    Copy OK

    Track 10

    Filename C:\Users\User\Documents\Hold Your Fire\10 High Water.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Extraction speed 4.7 X
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 9BB17153
    Copy CRC 9BB17153
    Copy OK
     
  25. Ambassador

    Ambassador Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Interesting. The SHM does not match the 32.8P:

    Code:
    Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL]
    -- 100.0 [B9AB3DFF] [E4A52CDA]
    01 99.9 [EBA09FF3] [BB237830]
    02 100.0 [08716A4B] [9D87FA23]
    03 100.0 [88D36BAE] [0C5B0122]
    04 99.9 [FE83830A] [1435933C]
    05 100.0 [73F375EF] [F2FAF797]
    06 100.0 [3206887D] [C0216F2A]
    07 100.0 [996E0025] [85CFDED2]
    08 100.0 [1357B208] [C41ACCBC]
    09 89.3 [CA410BEC] [D1E4F5E8]
    10 99.9 [2D49117C] [BECED596]
    Could it be that the 25.8P is different or that the SHM is a truly unique mastering?
     

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