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The Rush cd mastering thread (part 2)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by -Alan, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. boboquisp

    boboquisp Magic Prism Eye

    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Dude, they are the same. Didn't you scope out the @jamesc link in post #1584? It's there for you...:righton:
    I've had that bookmarked forever. Very useful reference.
     
    ytserush likes this.
  2. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    Yes
    I was looking at the wrong one the silverhub silverface which appears to be different!!!!
    It's funny how different members say this disc sounds better than that one.
    But a lot of these discs share the same mastering :D
    Great I have the clear hub silverface for S/T just as good as the magical Anthem pressing!!!!
    I have the silver hub silverface for 2112
    So is the clear hub a little better for that one?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
    boboquisp likes this.
  3. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    A farewell to kings I have is the sliver hub sliverface
    But this disc says made in the USA by PDO
    Is that the same mastering as a Non PDO disc?
     
  4. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin City Pop, Rock, and anything 80s til I die

    Location:
    United States
    For 2112, the Mercury discs are all the same regardless of whether or not the hub is clear. While it comes from the same digital tape source as the Anthem, the Mercury CDs boosts the bass and treble. This same thing also happened with the debut, Caress of Steel, and Hemispheres. The rest of the Mercurys are either identical to the Anthems or just simple level-shifts.
     
  5. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    Ok so the Anthem S/T has no treble and bass boosting?
    Even though the Clear hub silverface shares the same mastering?
    So I am assuming that the Anthem might be a little smoother sounding then correct?
    Would the Anthem 2112 be smoother as well?
    Give me your prefered masterings if you don't mind :)
     
  6. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin City Pop, Rock, and anything 80s til I die

    Location:
    United States
    The clear hub debut is the only Mercury version that has the same sound as the Anthem. All other versions have that smiley-faced EQ boost. I like both versions, but the Anthem is a bit smoother. For 2112, the Anthem is definitely the smoothest sounding CD out there. The MFSL sounds almost the same to me, so there's no reason to get it if you already have the Anthem. If you can't find an Anthem or MFSL, the silverface isn't all that bad. If you want to hear what the Anthem sounds like, Chronicles has that version of the title-track included (though it's unfortunately not the full song).

    Preferred CD list:

    Rush - Anthem/clear hub silverface
    Fly by Night - Any original CD
    Caress of Steel - Anthem, (Mercury sounds nice despite the smiley-faced EQ)
    2112 - Anthem or MFSL
    All the World's a Stage - Any original CD
    A Farewell to Kings - 40th Anniversary reissue, (the original CDs are a great alternative)
    Hemispheres - Anthem, (Mercury is too bright, Audio Fidelity SACD sound also sounds goos but it's too expensive)
    Permanent Waves - Undecided between the early Japanese mastering and MFSL
    Moving Pictures - Undecided, (I used to like the 03 Atomic the most, but now I think it sounds a bit cold and clinical. Most people will still tell you the 03 is the best one though)
    Signals - AMCY/SHM, (TBH, all of the CDs are excellent except for the '97 remaster which is too thin and dull.)
    Grace Under Pressure - I guess the Sector 3 remaster. Unlike Signals, there isn't a great sounding mastering. Mercury is too bright, Anthem is muffled and thin. Yes, the Sector version is compressed, but I thought it had the best EQ. The 2015 vinyl reissue is my overall favorite for this album.)
    Power Windows - Any original CD
    Hold Your Fire - Any original CD, (the Sector 3 remaster is worth hearing just for the alternate mixes, but it has a huge treble roll-off)
    A Show of Hands - Any original CD
    Presto - Audio Fidelity SACD, (the 2004 remaster is a good budget option, though the US cassette is currently my favorite version :hide:)
    Roll the Bones - Audio Fidelity HDCD, (same deal as Presto)
    Counterparts - Audio Fidelity SACD, (the other CDs are too compressed)
    Test for Echo - Any original CD, (every CD mastering is too compressed, so if you want dynamics, get the cassette or vinyl editions)
    Vapor Trails - Remix, (I do like the original mix better overall, but the CD is horrible. The cassette and hi-res remaster are as close to dynamic as the mix will ever get)
    Feedback - Studio Albums remaster, (The CDs are way too compressed; get the 2015 vinyl for full dynamics)
    Snakes & Arrows - Original, (same deal as Feedback)
     
    jamesc likes this.
  7. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I have mixed feelings about Mercury & 98 remasters.

    Silverface cds are good but wayyy too quiet of itd mastering, 98 versions can be nice, compression is resourceful if used correctly. Too much of it was used and sucked the life out it.

    I think the 2015 are the way to go. It's just sucks that most of it is not released on cd.
     
  8. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    Great thanks for the list :righton:
    I just added what I have next to said cd title
    The PDO pressings any different?
     
  9. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin City Pop, Rock, and anything 80s til I die

    Location:
    United States
    All PDO pressings should be the same as the standard US versions.
     
  10. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    Ok Thanks :)
     
  11. TheJosh

    TheJosh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Sean Magee did a good job overall with the reissue series with the exception of Permanent Waves. Seriously, what in the absolute f*** happened with that one? Total head scratcher there...
     
  12. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    Good list. Have you ever tried the MFSL for Moving Pictures? I like that one equally with the Atomic 03, but they are different. I don't believe I've ever checked out any Jpn discs for Permanent Waves, cool.
     
  13. Ben C.

    Ben C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I know it was meant for Diablo Griffin but I have the Atomic 03 and MFSL and still prefer the 25.8p - big and lush.

    And here's an alternative fave list (mine :)) :

    Rush - U.S. Mercury Silverface, clear hub
    Fly By Night - SHM (all things being equal, why not get the cool packaging)
    Caress of Steel - Anthem
    2112 - MFSL (I know. I compared it to my ANC-1-1004 and I like the MFSL better. So sue me :))
    All the World's... - U.S. Mercury Silverface
    A Farewell to Kings - Anthem
    Hemispheres - Anthem
    Permanent Waves - MFSL (splits the difference between the '97 aggression and the too-flat orig)
    Moving Pictures - 25.8P (Awesome. It's like a Green Arrow without the flaws)
    Exit...Stage Left - U.S. Mercury Silverface
    Signals - AMCY
    Grace Under Pressure - AMCY
    Power Windows - 25.8P
    Hold Your Fire - U.S. Mercury Silverface
    A Show of Hands - Vertigo
    Presto - Audio Fidelity ('remastered' by me)
    Roll the Bones - Audio Fidelity ('remastered' by me)
    Counterparts - orig. Atlantic (yep, loudness aside, the AFZ removed that bite that I found to be a hallmark of the original).
    Test for Echo - orig. Atlantic
    Different Stages - U.S. Atlantic
    Vapor Trails - SHM Remixed
    Rush in Rio - Atlantic
    Feedback - Atlantic
    Snakes & Arrows - SHM
    Snakes & Arrows Live - Atlantic
    Clockwork Angels - Roadrunner (actually think it sounds slightly better than the SHM)
     
  14. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    Might have to checkout the 40th for kings looks pretty good!!!!
     
  15. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin City Pop, Rock, and anything 80s til I die

    Location:
    United States
    Yep, I have it and enjoy it. I remember preferring it over the Atomic, but I haven't listened to it in a while.
     
  16. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    I don't have any notes at all about the 25-8P for Moving Pictures, except that it's different than the AMCY. Will have to revisit that one. Good list too!
     
    Ben C. likes this.
  17. ytserush

    ytserush Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast US
    The original Japan CD is a top 2 or 3 Permanent Waves CD for me. Really dig the Mobile Fidelity one too, but I can never decide if I like it better. It's just different.
     
    Diablo Griffin likes this.
  18. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    Referring to the list of CD masterings (by EAC peak value), for 2112:

    Code:
    CA Anthem ANC-1-1004     100.0% 100.0% 75.5% 86.4% 54.7% 69.4%
    CA Anthem ANMD-1004      100.0% 100.0% 75.5% 86.4% 54.7% 69.4%
    JP Epic/Sony 25-8P-5166   95.5% 95.5% 72.1% 82.5% 52.2% 66.3%
    JP Atlantic AMCY-317      95.5% 95.5% 72.1% 82.5% 52.2% 66.3%


    These two families would appear to be the same, just level shifted. I should know this, and maybe I do ... at home ... ;) but here, if I divide the top family by the bottom, I get a pretty constant 1.047 for each song as the divisor/multiplier. ??

    Rush CD Mastering Comparisons

    [I'm going through this spreadsheet, and comparing to what I know, or don't know.]
     
  19. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    Duh, never mind. Right in the table!

     
    Ben C. likes this.
  20. jamesc

    jamesc Formerly Known as Undertow

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Yeah, hats off to everyone responsible for that site! Good stuff!
     
    Diablo Griffin, Ben C. and boboquisp like this.
  21. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    I am going through that site now, and cleaning up my own spreadsheet of EAC numbers. When got to Moving Pictures, I chuckled:
    That's exactly how I feel! :)

    I have to imagine it's someone here. ??

    (I do things like that for myself, but it's never that presentable. :) My Rush spreadsheet is in fact a small mess. But I know where everything is!)
     
  22. Frost15

    Frost15 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Madrid
    I'll be forever grateful that I read your list a few pages back in this thread, because you pointed me to Anthem's Hemispheres, which was a great surprise and to this day my go-to version. Then I started to make my own list and we actually have very similar ears! I agree with everything except 2112 and Permanent Waves (I'll have to recheck the MFSLs). Also I'm comparing lately the 192/24 download card version of Test For Echo and I'm starting to like it better than the orig.Atlantic. Apart from that I share your taste!
     
    Diablo Griffin and Ben C. like this.
  23. Ben C.

    Ben C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    It's really cool how that happens - how some ears are more entranced by a certain sound quality, and some prefer something totally different! Glad you discovered the Anthem of Hemispheres - such a great sounding disc for sure.
    Regarding the MFSLs of 2112 and PW - I will say choosing between the Anthem and MFSL of 2112 is not easy, they're not light-years different, and the Anthem is definitely more 'balanced' tonally. And PW... I'm not 100% happy with any of the releases! The original releases sound too flat and narrow to me, and the MFSL a bit too aggressive although more open and fuller.
    And thanks for the heads-up re: T4E - will have to check that out :)
     
    Diablo Griffin and Frost15 like this.
  24. Frost15

    Frost15 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Madrid
    I agree that 2112 is a very hard album to judge, but Geddy Lee's vocals make me like the Anthem better... The MFSL sounds fuller yes, but it has less separation and Geddy Lee sounds boxed in too many parts... :S
     
    Diablo Griffin and Ben C. like this.
  25. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    I might have missed this previously, but from that web site for Power Windows:

    Code:
    CA Anthem ANC-1-1049
      97.7% 83.6% 92.0% 78.1% 78.8% 78.4% 91.3% 85.6%       
    CA Anthem ANK-1049
      97.7% 83.6% 92.0% 78.1% 78.8% 78.4% 91.3% 85.6%       
    CA Anthem VANK-1049
      97.7% 83.6% 92.0% 78.1% 78.8% 78.4% 91.3% 85.6%       
    
    JP Epic/Sony 25-8P-5078
      100.0% 85.6% 94.2% 80.0% 78.8% 78.4% 91.3% 85.6%       
    JP Epic/Sony 32-8P-101
      100.0% 85.6% 94.2% 80.0% 78.8% 78.4% 91.3% 85.6%       
    JP Atlantic AMCY-293
      100.0% 85.6% 94.2% 80.0% 78.8% 78.4% 91.3% 85.6%       
    JP SHM WPCR-13482
      100.0% 85.6% 94.2% 80.0% 78.8% 78.4% 91.3% 85.6%       
    
    WG Mercury 826 098-2
    (Atomic) 95.5% 81.7% 89.9% 72.1% 75.2% 76.6% 89.2% 85.5%       
    US Mercury 826 098-2
    (Atomic) 95.5% 81.7% 89.9% 72.1% 75.2% 76.6% 89.2% 85.5%  
    I believe that these are all the "same" mastering:

    Code:
    WG At   ANK    Jpn   ANK/WG At    Jpn/ANK
    95.5    97.7   100    1.023       1.024
    81.7    83.6   85.6   1.023       1.024
    89.9    92     94.2   1.023       1.024
    72.1    78.1   80     1.083       1.024
    75.2    78.8   78.8   1.048       1.000
    76.6    78.4   78.4   1.023       1.000
    89.2    91.3   91.3   1.024       1.000
    85.5    85.6   85.6   1.001       1.000
    
    And he also says:

    "Preferred mastering is any original release (before 1997 Remasters)"

    Which seems to imply they all are the same too.

    ??
     

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