Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by -Alan, Jul 5, 2012.
I may be able to help you out in your quest...sending a PM.
So my Atomic CD of Grace Under Pressure came in today! I'll have to correct what I said earlier on about it being West German, the inserts certainly say so, but the disc was made in the US. That's fine though, I remember seeing earlier posts in this thread that described similar things happening with this CD and others. And, it sounds good! So I don't mind it being US vs. WG.
This whole time I've also been aware of the rather infamous 'glitch' that occurs at 2:25 in The Enemy Within. As that point got close, I watched the seconds tick by on my stereo, before to my surprise, the only thing I heard was the slightest vinyl like 'pop' sound. I get that'd bother some people, but I was lead to believe it'd be much worse (like some sort of loud digital 'tick' sound), so I'm happy with this disc! The little pop seems minor to me compared to how good everything else sounds. Bass is nice and deep, the guitar and drums are clear and crisp, I heard some parts I hadn't noticed before in each song too. For now, this is the one for me.
I'm so used to hearing that sound that I'd miss it if it wasn't there.
I believe they share the same mastering
Glitch is on the WG #01 as well. Doesn't bother me either.
Have to admit I wasn't expecting much with the 2015's either but I'm so glad I was wrong.
So I was thinking about 90s Rush today, like Presto and Roll The Bones.
I know the preferred versions for both are the AF SACDs, but on a budget, would the original Atlantic CDs be preferable to the remastered versions? I've seen the remasters in stores for cheap, and the originals on Ebay for cheap, so getting either isn't much trouble. I'm guessing that the originals are probably better, but I remember people mentioning some problems with them elsewhere in the thread that made them prefer the SACDs.
IMO, the originals and remasters for these two are good. The remasters boost the bass a little, though at the expensive of adding some mild peak limiting. The originals have better dynamics and are thinner, but it's not a night and day difference. I think you'd be satisfied with either version. The remasters from the Studio Albums box set are rather meh; way more compression than the previous CDs. Worst of all are the Presto and RTB tracks from Retrospective III; they're brickwalled disasters.
If you decide to seek out Counterparts and Test for Echo, don't get the 2004 remasters. They're brighter and louder than the already compressed originals. Also on TFE, Carve Away the Stone is missing the 'sisyphus' backing vocal. In fact, the original CD is strangely the only one that has it.
Like you the Mercury was my primary experience with the album. I don't have my original Anthem handy at moment is the glitch present on that mastering as well?
Ah okay, I see. It might have been Counterparts and Test For Echo I was remembering the issues with. I plan on getting those at some point too, so I'll keep in mind to avoid the remasters on those.
And also, noted with regards to Presto and Roll The Bones! I suppose I'll just pick which I can get easier when the time comes.
Don't think the Anthem pressings have it...
Correct. The Atomic is the only one that has the glitch.
Yes, Chronicles sounds fantastic. It’s easily the best mastered Rush compilation.
Any new discoveries to add to the list of mastering mix variations? For example, I think there have been references to earlier fade-ins on some songs on some Anthems and/or Atomics. Not mix variations, but subtle song variations nonetheless. I have not yet revised the list to include them. Here is the current version as updated about six months ago:
The Weapon, Signals, MFSL Ultradisc CD mastering, “And the things that he fears/Are a weapon to be held against him” lyric missing from bridge, slightly longer fade
New World Man, Signals, MFSL Ultradisc, slightly longer fade
Analog Kid, Signals MFSL Ultradisc, slightly longer fade
Carve Away the Stone, Test for Echo, Rush Remasters CD mastering, “Sisyphus” background vocals missing
Mystic Rhythms, Power Windows, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, extra synthesizer notes towards end
Force Ten, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, “Rising falling at force ten" lyrics channels reversed and narrowed; reversed channels on solo guitar towards middle of song
Time Stand Still, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, additional Simmons electronic drum hits in one place in middle of song
Second Nature, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, keyboard and sound effects channels reversed in multiple places
Mission, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, strings added during second chorus
Turn The Page, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, main vocal panning during chorus
Tai Shan, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, wind chimes added during intro
High Water, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, additional guitar lick towards end of song
Limbo, Test for Echo, Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering, Monster Mash samples (sound effects and vocals) missing
Dog Years, Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering, 5:28 length vs. the original 4:55 (probably just longer fade)
Resist Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering, 4:36 length vs. the original 4:23 (probably just longer fade)
By-Tor and the Snow Dog, Fly By Night, Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering and Archives vinyl LP mastering, extra seconds of repeating chimes (the Magee mastering has an extra 53 seconds and the Archives LP an extra 28 seconds. Both variations were created to emulate/approximate the chimes infinitely playing on the LP side 1 runout groove on the original vinyl.)
Stuff like this makes me wonder how many versions of the mixes they usually did, and if parts were flown-in on the stereo mixes, before or during mastering... and why aren't all the final mixes in one place...
I was just listening to the Audio Fidelity version of Counterparts the other day, and I noticed the outro of Stick It Out was longer than the original CD. The original CD and the Magee hires are both 4:31 and the AF version is 4:48.
I completely agree...for the life of me I don't understand how or why alternative mixes of songs were allowed to be released on the Sector sets (disclaimer: I don't own any of them so I haven't heard them) when Rush was pretty consistent throughout their history in standing by the authenticity of their originally released material. After all, they endeavored to replicate it live as close to the original as possible, they were that committed to it. Longer fades are not that big of a deal IMO, but the fact that the band would allow songs to be re-released with sound effects and vocals missing, instruments added, etc., doesn't make sense to me. Or, maybe it's better to ask why a remastering engineer was given the freedom to change the producer's work?
I love it when stuff like this happens. MFSL Sisters of Mercy-Floodland ended up with a couple unique mixes, Duran Duran's Strange Behaviour comp gave us an alternate extended mix of Hold Back The Rain on accident.
Using the wrong tapes rock
It does make for interesting listening...with Rush, it just seems so odd (to me at least) because they were insistent on not releasing their records until they were satisfied it was all exactly the way they wanted it, for better or worse.
Yeah that was an odd duck for sure.
Think it was just a simple mistake with whomever was compiling the tapes for that project.
I think it’s likely that the band had mostly finalized the mixes by the time they were ready to make master tapes, but there were still a few "events" that they hadn’t decided on yet (such as the extra vocals in The Weapon, the extra keyboard sounds on Hold Your Fire, longer outros, etc.) They probably had a few final mixes made (before mastering) and the band took home cassette pre-masters to listen to and decided which versions they wanted to send out for mastering and release. This would require multiple different "master tapes" to be made, and the band would ultimately decide that "version 1" or "version 2" would be the one to send to the mastering engineer to make the final release version. If these "pre masters " were not clearly labeled, they may have just gone into the band’s or record label’s archive, without a clear indication of which one is the "proper" version. When they were pulled off the shelf for remastering over the years, it appears that the label the was doing the remastering and release (Universal, Audio Fidelity, MOFI, or whoever) sometimes pulled the wrong version. Only a super-fan would notice most of these differences, so you can’t blame the labels or mastering engineers for not recognizing by ear that they’ve used the incorrect master tape,
My guess is that although Rush were always very involved and dedicated to every record at the time of release, they’ve always seemed to be a bit "hands off" when something is reissued or used in a compilation, other than making sure the artwork is well done.
This is my preference for cd...I also own the 97 remaster and the 40th anniversary 3cd set. The 97 is way too bright for me, and the 4oth doesn't sound as smooth as the old US. It's amazing how many of these early discs are still preferred over multiple remastering attempts.
I'm still looking for masterings of the main albums that are more mellow/laid back than the Sean Magee ones. Any suggestions? Cheers.
PS: I already have the Audio Fidelity "Hemispheres", and it's great.
As huge as my collection is Doc, me thinks- many times they got em right the first time around.
I don't believe in the 'new converters=better' nonsense. Seems they get sterilized by them, the soul is lost.
And a huge reason why I go after old cd singles
Good words...yep, I keep reading about the improvement with updated converters, but 9 times out of 10 I'm not hearing it.
I'm just happy that most of these relics are cheap.
Same here, Cheap is very important
DG's breakdown on this thread was a huge help, plus finding oldies for a buck at local thrifts.
Found a WG for US S/T last year that I enjoy as well.
I still have to track down an old Signals and I think I'll be all set
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