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The Rush cd mastering thread (part 2)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by -Alan, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. rcsrich

    rcsrich Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I may be able to help you out in your quest...sending a PM. ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
    BitterMinnows likes this.
  2. BitterMinnows

    BitterMinnows Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United States
    So my Atomic CD of Grace Under Pressure came in today! I'll have to correct what I said earlier on about it being West German, the inserts certainly say so, but the disc was made in the US. That's fine though, I remember seeing earlier posts in this thread that described similar things happening with this CD and others. And, it sounds good! So I don't mind it being US vs. WG.

    This whole time I've also been aware of the rather infamous 'glitch' that occurs at 2:25 in The Enemy Within. As that point got close, I watched the seconds tick by on my stereo, before to my surprise, the only thing I heard was the slightest vinyl like 'pop' sound. I get that'd bother some people, but I was lead to believe it'd be much worse (like some sort of loud digital 'tick' sound), so I'm happy with this disc! The little pop seems minor to me compared to how good everything else sounds. Bass is nice and deep, the guitar and drums are clear and crisp, I heard some parts I hadn't noticed before in each song too. For now, this is the one for me. :)
     
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  3. rcsrich

    rcsrich Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I'm so used to hearing that sound that I'd miss it if it wasn't there. :)
     
  4. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    I believe they share the same mastering :)
    Glitch is on the WG #01 as well. Doesn't bother me either. :righton:
     
  5. ytserush

    ytserush Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast US

    Have to admit I wasn't expecting much with the 2015's either but I'm so glad I was wrong.
     
  6. BitterMinnows

    BitterMinnows Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United States
    So I was thinking about 90s Rush today, like Presto and Roll The Bones.

    I know the preferred versions for both are the AF SACDs, but on a budget, would the original Atlantic CDs be preferable to the remastered versions? I've seen the remasters in stores for cheap, and the originals on Ebay for cheap, so getting either isn't much trouble. I'm guessing that the originals are probably better, but I remember people mentioning some problems with them elsewhere in the thread that made them prefer the SACDs.
     
  7. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin City Pop, Rock, and anything 80s til I die

    Location:
    United States
    IMO, the originals and remasters for these two are good. The remasters boost the bass a little, though at the expensive of adding some mild peak limiting. The originals have better dynamics and are thinner, but it's not a night and day difference. I think you'd be satisfied with either version. The remasters from the Studio Albums box set are rather meh; way more compression than the previous CDs. Worst of all are the Presto and RTB tracks from Retrospective III; they're brickwalled disasters.

    If you decide to seek out Counterparts and Test for Echo, don't get the 2004 remasters. They're brighter and louder than the already compressed originals. Also on TFE, Carve Away the Stone is missing the 'sisyphus' backing vocal. In fact, the original CD is strangely the only one that has it.
     
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  8. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast
    Hi,

    Like you the Mercury was my primary experience with the album. I don't have my original Anthem handy at moment is the glitch present on that mastering as well?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
  9. BitterMinnows

    BitterMinnows Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United States
    Ah okay, I see. It might have been Counterparts and Test For Echo I was remembering the issues with. I plan on getting those at some point too, so I'll keep in mind to avoid the remasters on those.

    And also, noted with regards to Presto and Roll The Bones! I suppose I'll just pick which I can get easier when the time comes.
     
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  10. rcsrich

    rcsrich Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Don't think the Anthem pressings have it...
     
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  11. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin City Pop, Rock, and anything 80s til I die

    Location:
    United States
    Correct. The Atomic is the only one that has the glitch.
     
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  12. Yes, Chronicles sounds fantastic. It’s easily the best mastered Rush compilation.
     
  13. Any new discoveries to add to the list of mastering mix variations? For example, I think there have been references to earlier fade-ins on some songs on some Anthems and/or Atomics. Not mix variations, but subtle song variations nonetheless. I have not yet revised the list to include them. Here is the current version as updated about six months ago:

    The Weapon, Signals, MFSL Ultradisc CD mastering, “And the things that he fears/Are a weapon to be held against him” lyric missing from bridge, slightly longer fade

    New World Man, Signals, MFSL Ultradisc, slightly longer fade

    Analog Kid, Signals MFSL Ultradisc, slightly longer fade

    Carve Away the Stone, Test for Echo, Rush Remasters CD mastering, “Sisyphus” background vocals missing

    Mystic Rhythms, Power Windows, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, extra synthesizer notes towards end

    Force Ten, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, “Rising falling at force ten" lyrics channels reversed and narrowed; reversed channels on solo guitar towards middle of song

    Time Stand Still, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, additional Simmons electronic drum hits in one place in middle of song

    Second Nature, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, keyboard and sound effects channels reversed in multiple places

    Mission, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, strings added during second chorus

    Turn The Page, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, main vocal panning during chorus

    Tai Shan, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, wind chimes added during intro

    High Water, Hold Your Fire, Sector 3 CD and hi-res mastering, additional guitar lick towards end of song

    Limbo, Test for Echo, Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering, Monster Mash samples (sound effects and vocals) missing

    Dog Years, Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering, 5:28 length vs. the original 4:55 (probably just longer fade)

    Resist Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering, 4:36 length vs. the original 4:23 (probably just longer fade)

    By-Tor and the Snow Dog, Fly By Night, Sean Magee LP and hi-res mastering and Archives vinyl LP mastering, extra seconds of repeating chimes (the Magee mastering has an extra 53 seconds and the Archives LP an extra 28 seconds. Both variations were created to emulate/approximate the chimes infinitely playing on the LP side 1 runout groove on the original vinyl.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  14. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Stuff like this makes me wonder how many versions of the mixes they usually did, and if parts were flown-in on the stereo mixes, before or during mastering... and why aren't all the final mixes in one place...
     
  15. wellers73

    wellers73 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I was just listening to the Audio Fidelity version of Counterparts the other day, and I noticed the outro of Stick It Out was longer than the original CD. The original CD and the Magee hires are both 4:31 and the AF version is 4:48.
     
  16. ToddBD

    ToddBD Forum Resident

    I completely agree...for the life of me I don't understand how or why alternative mixes of songs were allowed to be released on the Sector sets (disclaimer: I don't own any of them so I haven't heard them) when Rush was pretty consistent throughout their history in standing by the authenticity of their originally released material. After all, they endeavored to replicate it live as close to the original as possible, they were that committed to it. Longer fades are not that big of a deal IMO, but the fact that the band would allow songs to be re-released with sound effects and vocals missing, instruments added, etc., doesn't make sense to me. Or, maybe it's better to ask why a remastering engineer was given the freedom to change the producer's work?
     
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  17. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    I love it when stuff like this happens. MFSL Sisters of Mercy-Floodland ended up with a couple unique mixes, Duran Duran's Strange Behaviour comp gave us an alternate extended mix of Hold Back The Rain on accident.
    Using the wrong tapes rock :laugh:
     
  18. ToddBD

    ToddBD Forum Resident

    It does make for interesting listening...with Rush, it just seems so odd (to me at least) because they were insistent on not releasing their records until they were satisfied it was all exactly the way they wanted it, for better or worse.
     
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  19. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    Yeah that was an odd duck for sure.
    Think it was just a simple mistake with whomever was compiling the tapes for that project.
     
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  20. wellers73

    wellers73 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I think it’s likely that the band had mostly finalized the mixes by the time they were ready to make master tapes, but there were still a few "events" that they hadn’t decided on yet (such as the extra vocals in The Weapon, the extra keyboard sounds on Hold Your Fire, longer outros, etc.) They probably had a few final mixes made (before mastering) and the band took home cassette pre-masters to listen to and decided which versions they wanted to send out for mastering and release. This would require multiple different "master tapes" to be made, and the band would ultimately decide that "version 1" or "version 2" would be the one to send to the mastering engineer to make the final release version. If these "pre masters " were not clearly labeled, they may have just gone into the band’s or record label’s archive, without a clear indication of which one is the "proper" version. When they were pulled off the shelf for remastering over the years, it appears that the label the was doing the remastering and release (Universal, Audio Fidelity, MOFI, or whoever) sometimes pulled the wrong version. Only a super-fan would notice most of these differences, so you can’t blame the labels or mastering engineers for not recognizing by ear that they’ve used the incorrect master tape,

    My guess is that although Rush were always very involved and dedicated to every record at the time of release, they’ve always seemed to be a bit "hands off" when something is reissued or used in a compilation, other than making sure the artwork is well done.
     
  21. Dr. Funk

    Dr. Funk Vintage Dust

    Location:
    Fort Worth TX
    This is my preference for cd...I also own the 97 remaster and the 40th anniversary 3cd set. The 97 is way too bright for me, and the 4oth doesn't sound as smooth as the old US. It's amazing how many of these early discs are still preferred over multiple remastering attempts.
     
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  22. Hatchet Jack

    Hatchet Jack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    I'm still looking for masterings of the main albums that are more mellow/laid back than the Sean Magee ones. Any suggestions? Cheers.

    PS: I already have the Audio Fidelity "Hemispheres", and it's great.
     
  23. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    As huge as my collection is Doc, me thinks- many times they got em right the first time around.
    I don't believe in the 'new converters=better' nonsense. Seems they get sterilized by them, the soul is lost.
    And a huge reason why I go after old cd singles :)
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Dr. Funk

    Dr. Funk Vintage Dust

    Location:
    Fort Worth TX
    Good words...yep, I keep reading about the improvement with updated converters, but 9 times out of 10 I'm not hearing it.

    I'm just happy that most of these relics are cheap.
     
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  25. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    Same here, Cheap is very important :laugh:
    DG's breakdown on this thread was a huge help, plus finding oldies for a buck at local thrifts.
    Found a WG for US S/T last year that I enjoy as well.
    I still have to track down an old Signals and I think I'll be all set :)
     
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