"The secrets of the tabla" on Paul McCartney - Pipes Of Peace - exclusive interview

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Claudio Dirani, May 26, 2007.

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  1. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil

    From the early 70's to the early 80’s...now I want to take you back to the hectic sessions that produced not only Pipes Of Peace, but the whole Give My Regards To Broad Street multimidia project. Udoubtly, the Tug Of War's follow-up was one of Paul’s most criticized albums. However, in my opinion there’re some interesting items on it that are worth a better listening, including the title-track - a worldwide hit in its own right.

    So this time I want to show you all an interview I did back in 2002 with Canandian percussionist, James Kippen, who contributed with the remarkable sound of tabla heard on the Pipes of Peace track.

    Before you started reading, though, I want to call your attention to some detail on this interview. For some unknown reason, the original transcription in English got lost in the way I was finishing up my book. So I had to re-translate it to the English after publishing it in Portuguese, my mother language. In spite of that, I believe there was anything missed in this process. Any grammar or typos, please, it's only my fault, not Kippen's! ;)

    I hope you enjoy as much as you did with my interview with Eirik Wangberg.

    Claudio Dirani



    How did you end up working with Paul on Pipes Of Peace?


    Well, I’d known George Martin for years before I got invited to work in the sessions. We used to live in the same neighbourhood and his wife (Judy) was close to my mother as well. Another coincidence, by the way. Before that, in the early ‘70s, I looked after George’s children and that indeed helped to make our bond stronger. Truth is that George Martin was very influential in my life because he instigated me quite a lot to improve my musical abilities and reassure my interests in music.

    What about playing tabla on the track Pipes Of Peace? How did the invitation come about?

    The proper invitation happened in October 1982. George rang me up at home and we had a chat about Paul McCartney’s latest project. Around that time, Paul had already written the song (Pipes Of Peace) as a musical piece that involved several kinds of pipes originated from many countries around the world. It was actually a song about the global peace. And, as Paul is very into detail, he also had a objective idea that his track would be arranged with a very unique sound of percussion backing. Well, so that’s where my role started off. I’m a tabla player, and when Paul thought the arrangement for the song would have Indian instruments, my name immediately came to George Martin’s mind. So he made another phone call and I accepted his invitation.


    When you arrived at A.I.R Paul was already there?

    No, not really. Paul arrived about a half hour later in the studio and he seemed to be very nice and relaxed. He's actually a very easy-going, down-to-earth person and he wanted to make sure I was feeling comfortable too. And, as soon as he got in there, we started chatting about how he intended to record the song. It didn't take long, though.


    What about Paul McCartney's decisions on the arrangements? Did he give you any particular instruction before taping the track?


    Well, that’s a nice question by the way. First of all, he wanted to make sure I had understood how my contribution would be like. I remember very well when Paul picked up my tabla to show me exactly what he wanted. He had a particular percussion sound in mind so that he tried to translate it in a practical way for me to reproduce it in the record. He gave the tabla back to me and I offered him several ideas with proper phrases that would serve as support to the song. Paul’s reply to some of my run-throughs were negative, but thankfully he did enjoy most of them. When we decided what was going to be in the song, I had some time to rehearse before recording it properly. Apparently, Paul liked what he heard!


    So you did record Pipes Of Peace in the same day you met him for the first time?


    Yes, we did. Not a single minute wasted, I can tell! (laughs) After I rehearsed my parts, Paul called me up in the control room to show me where exactly the tabla phrases were going to be placed in. Then we started off recording almost immediately after his last instructions. I guess we did about 20 or 30 takes of my tabla before he decided which was the best one. The remaining of the session was dedicated to mix the tabla sounds on Pipes Of Peace, so the recording engineers came into the scene.

    Did they change something throughout the process? Did your original performance get altered in some form?

    Actually, yes. But not much. The main difference to the actual recording was that the tabla sound was given a treatment in the mixing desk that ended up with more low timbres than it's in the original performance. However, it wasn't heavily altered in the mix. I enjoyed the results as much as Paul and George Martin did.

    You told me that the original concept of Pipes Of Peace would feature several pipes in the arrangement. What happened to initial project?

    Actually I was only told that they had changed their minds on the project, months after the album were already available in the record stores. I was in India doing my research on musical instruments and got a little bit surprised with the change of direction. Apparently, one of the instruments that was going to be used in the session was the shehnai, a kind of oboe played in the north of India. So, they'd to face the following situation: it was unlikely they would get in London a musician capable to play the shehnai in the very way the track's melody was conceived by Paul. One thing I recall is that George Martin later asked me about the actual possibilities to produce the arrangement and I went, very frankly: "Not many, George!"


    Did you feel a bit disappoited that it had changed?



    No, not really! I enjoyed the results very much. However, you can't deny that, had the original concept been achieved, it would have turned out as something beautiful, unique.
    You know, after I picked my copy of the Pipes Of Peace album I showed the final results to my Indian friends and they got impressed with the recording. And I can tell, I DID enjoy the recording. Mainly the tabla bits, I don't know why...(laughs).


    To wrap this up, any particular fun recollection of the sessions?

    Yes, I've got some. I remember when I finished my part I had my way to the studios' restaurant to have a bite and relax a little bit. Paul was already there, and I recall that A.I.R had a videogame machine there and guess what? Paul was having a go in the '80's ultimate game" - Space Invaders. We chatted a bit and then he confessed: "I'm addicted to this game....I just can't stop playing it!" (laughs) He told me that the night before our session he had spent hours and hours and just had given up playing "Invaders" around 4 a.m! We had a laugh talking about that, it was really lots of fun...



    ****
     
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  2. bob2935

    bob2935 Active Member

    Location:
    Oakville, Canada
    Another good one Claudio. Thank you very much.
    Bob.
     
  3. Sammy Banderas

    Sammy Banderas Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Keep 'em coming, Claudio!!!:righton:
     
  4. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    glad you're enjoying it :)
     
  5. Wollensack

    Wollensack Beatles maniac

    Location:
    Philly, PA, USA
    Well done, sir!
     
  6. Jack Son #9 Dream

    Jack Son #9 Dream lofi hip hop is good

    Location:
    U.S.A.
    I love the song "Pipes Of Peace" and I've always thought the tabla was a great part in it.

    Great interview!
     
  7. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block

    Come on Claudio . You are making up all these interviews.Confess.

    Next week I'm posting the interview I did with
    Jimi Hendrix....last week :)

    Good job again Claudio !
     
  8. backseat

    backseat Italian translator - Paul McCartney's 'The Lyrics'

    Location:
    Italy
    Great one, Claudio.
    PIPES OF PEACE sessions are not so well documented, so great contribution from one musician that was in the studio.
    I've always wondered if Paul did play all other instruments on that song and who plays on the oct 1982 sessions.
    Maybe it was like this:

    - PIPES OF PEACE
    Paul: vocals, piano, keyboards, bass
    James Kippan: tabla
    The Pewstalozzi Children's Choir: voices

    - THE OTHER ME
    Paul: piano, electric guitar, bass, keyboards, percussions
    Does not seem that we have a real drums, but a drum machine

    - SO BAD
    Paul: vocal, bass, acoustic guitar, electric guitar (?), keyboards (?)
    Linda: backing vocals
    Eric Stewart: backing vocals, electric guitar (?)
    Ringo: drums

    - THROUGH OUR LOVE
    Paul: vocal, bass, percussions
    Geoff Whitehorn: acousitc guitar
    Dave Mattacks: drums
    George Martin: piano, percussions
    Linda and Eric Stewart: backing vocals

    TUG OF PEACE

    Paul: vocals, bass, electric guitar, percussions, keyboards (?)
    George Martin: percussions
    Also here we have a drum machine (very similar rhythm to CORRIDOR MUSIC) but also powerful percussions

    I'm on the way of finishing a book reconstructing all musicians that played on Paul records.
     
  9. Verano

    Verano New Member

    Location:
    Norway, Europe
    Thanks!

    I think Pipes of Peace is one of Paul's most underrated albums. I've never heard him talk about any of the songs, and as far as I know, he's never played any of the tracks live.

    Imagine that Paul re-arranged some of the songs for a tour, for instance. Keep Under Cover could be a cool rocker, with heavy guitars and Paul's rock'n'roll-voice.

    I'd like to hear Through Our Love without all the reverb on the vocals. It's a beautiful song!
     
  10. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    I didn't make up!
    :)
    I swear!

    You know, I've always loved the "story behind" a song. So that's a real pleasure, finding out what was like to be a fly on the wall in the studio.
     
  11. johmbolaya

    johmbolaya Active Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    That's great, and very inspiring. I'm still in the planning stages of a book I want to do, where I want to talk with people who were involved in various sessions, and this is the kind of "hidden" or "unknown" information I'd like to get from my subjects.

    Of course, with these interview bits being Beatle related, I don't mind that at all one bit either!
     
  12. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Hi, If you want to use any of this information, feel free. Just give a little credit to me and I'm happy.
     
  13. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Hey, there's some info on the songs published on the Club Sandwich number 31, I think. He talks about a few tracks on this article.
     
  14. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil

    I think I have got this info and might be posting later for us.
     
  15. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Thanks, Jack. Tabla does have a cool sound on it.
     
  16. cousinvin

    cousinvin New Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Love your avatar- is that your Memory Almost Full chair?
     
  17. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Cool, innit?
    It's a friend's chair. I spotted it in his house and asked for a pic!:righton:
     
  18. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    thanks Andre!
    You should interview him for the Breakfast. What do you think?
    We should produce a special series on the making of all Paul's albums.
     
  19. GrandpaFrederick

    GrandpaFrederick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Interesting interview.
     
  20. Maidenpriest

    Maidenpriest Setting the controls for the heart of the sun :)

    Location:
    Europe
    Paul McCartney hooked on space invaders! who would of thought!!
     
  21. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall Thread Starter

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil


    Yeah, anyway, I still think this game is cool over 20 years later...I don't blame him to get hooked on it! :)
     
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