The Smiths - CD comparison thread

Re: "Louder Than Bombs"

Hi Kevin,

indeed I did match volume level for the comparison. The UK disc is very tight and well balanced - the US disc is less focussed for want of a better phrase. This is not a subtle effect - the UK disc is clearly superior.

I take your point about the clipped samples. However, that is not the only consideration when deciding which mastering is best. Of course, only actually listening to the two discs will tell you which you prefer. The point about the clipped samples in the case of these Rough Trade original CDs is that unlike modern remasters it does not indicate that any compression has necessarily been applied the mastering stage. Also, these pressings pre-date the use of digital compression which is the real source of the unpleasant sound on most modern mastering.

What these clipped samples do indicate is that the levels have been pushed up as high as possible thus utilising the full 16-bits of the CD format - a better situation to be in compared to the overly cautious low levels used on the Sire disc.

Don't forget that the DCC gold discs we all love peak at 100% from time to time. The art of mastering is to produce the best sounding result regardless of the technical pre-conceptions one may have. Bottom line - if it sounds OK then it is OK!

So, take it from me, these Rough Trade discs showing 100% peaks on a few tracks sound GREAT!

Another thing worth noting - just because a track peaks at 100% doesn't mean that the whole track is pushing 100% the whole way through - it may be a single extreme peak registering that value.

By all means stick with your Sire discs - but in doing so don't be so sure you have the best sounding editions......

 

I've always wondered about our AUS releases. How do they compare?

 

Compared to the US Sires and UK Rough Trades, I have no idea

Compared to the 2001 Very Best Of comp (which is apparently the best sounding Smiths on CD), I can't hear much of a difference to the WEAs other than the volume.

I'll post some more EAC peak levels for the WEAs soon...

 

Yeah, regarding the clipping, the impression I get from the forums and a few discs I've compared is that it's not ideal, but it's also not the end of the world. Light clipping, I hasten to add. For example, people who've compared the Japanese and Canadian versions of Steve's Who's Next all seem to prefer the Japanese, even though it's slightly clipped. And there we're talking about essentially the same mastering, though the Canadian is a copy of a copy and some problems arose. But a slightly clipped disc with good mastering could easily outshine a disc that isn't clipped but that has bad mastering.

 

Meat Is Murder - WEA Aus disc same as Dr. Merkwürdigli's numbers
Strangeways, Here We Come - WEA Aus disc same as Dr. Merkwürdigli's numbers


Hatful Of Hollow
WEA 4509-91893-2
Made in Australia

Track 1 Peak level 86.1 %
Track 2 Peak level 93.7 %
Track 3 Peak level 83.6 %
Track 4 Peak level 97.9 %
Track 5 Peak level 95.6 %
Track 6 Peak level 86.2 %
Track 7 Peak level 97.9 %
Track 8 Peak level 89.0 %
Track 9 Peak level 91.6 %
Track 10 Peak level 97.9 %
Track 11 Peak level 88.8 %
Track 12 Peak level 86.0 %
Track 13 Peak level 97.9 %
Track 14 Peak level 51.6 %
Track 15 Peak level 97.9 %
Track 16 Peak level 72.7 %


The Queen Is Dead
WEA 4509 91896 2
Made In Australia

Track 1 Peak level 86.6 %
Track 2 Peak level 87.9 %
Track 3 Peak level 85.8 %
Track 4 Peak level 92.1 %
Track 5 Peak level 92.5 %
Track 6 Peak level 87.5 %
Track 7 Peak level 85.1 %
Track 8 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 9 Peak level 92.9 %
Track 10 Peak level 100.0 %


Smiths (S/T)
WEA 4509-91892-2
Made In Germany

Track 1 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 2 Peak level 91.7 %
Track 3 Peak level 89.8 %
Track 4 Peak level 96.6 %
Track 5 Peak level 96.2 %
Track 6 Peak level 89.5 %
Track 7 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 8 Peak level 96.6 %
Track 9 Peak level 84.2 %
Track 10 Peak level 95.7 %
Track 11 Peak level 99.9 %

 

Ummm.. err.. so the ridiculously expensive Rough Trade cds that are impossible/expensive to find are the best cd versions. Uh.. Ok, I got it.
Thanks for that.

No, really - I knew that already from reading previous threads about this, but upon trying to actually obtain the RT cds I found myself in an overpriced fantasy-land. Donald Trump I am not. Guess I'll make do with the current versions until something better comes along. Hey, one can dream, can't he?

 

Re: "Louder Than Bombs"

I recently acquired a sire CD of louder than bombs, and I was a little disappointed with the sound - it compared less favorably to the cassette, I thought

 

Well, my curiousity is piqued, so I just ordered a European version of LTBs. I'll report back. I'm not married to the U.S. version and I do want the best one I can get.

 

You mean you ordered the old (out of print) European version? That is the one I'm talking about - ROUGH CD255. The currently available European WEA pressing is yet another mastering according to the data presented on this thread but having never heard that one I can't tell you how it compares to the original EU or US editions.

 

Yeah, I've been trying to track all of RT pressings down for about a year now and have gotten some at decent prices but still some of the titles elude me or are so overpriced it's rediculous. I just can't see spending more than $25 a piece on any of these titles.

 

Agreed.

 

Hmmm... OK, I'll have to see what I get and then go from there. Thanks.

 

Have you guys been trying to track these down on Ebay or in used record stores? I remember one of my old TAs having all of the rough trades Smiths. I made copies of them all but back then all that was available were tapes.

 

Apologies for any confusion I may have caused

 

You can find the Rought Trades for $25 or so if you are persistent. You may have to settle for some that aren't in mint condition though.

 

OK, since this is kind of a comparison thread, unfortunately now I have to ask... , I just checked, and I have Rough Trade versions of Hatful of Hollow and Meat is Murder, but Sires (/Rough Trade) for the Queen is Dead and Strangeways. Is there a similar step in sound quality for those two discs too?

 

I have two Rough Trade CD's of The Queen Is Dead, one pressed by MPO France and one pressed by Nimbus UK. I think the Nimbus one was pressed a bit later on because it has a bar code on the back cover. The nimbus CD also seems to me, to be a better CD pressing. When I hold the MPO CD up to a lamp, there are a lot of pin holes in the aluminum/silver layer. I think they sound pretty much the same, same mastering.

Were there a Nimbus CD pressings of Hatful and Meat too?

 

The World Won't Listen
WEA 4509-91898-2
Made in Australia

Track 1 Peak level 98.0 %
Track 2 Peak level 94.7 %
Track 3 Peak level 86.0 %
Track 4 Peak level 87.3 %
Track 5 Peak level 87.1 %
Track 6 Peak level 86.4 %
Track 7 Peak level 94.1 %
Track 8 Peak level 91.8 %
Track 9 Peak level 85.2 %
Track 10 Peak level 62.8 %
Track 11 Peak level 94.2 %
Track 12 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 13 Peak level 92.6 %
Track 14 Peak level 98.5 %
Track 15 Peak level 94.0 %
Track 16 Peak level 98.2 %
Track 17 Peak level 96.3 %
Track 18 Peak level 77.3 %

 

Here's the last lot of WEA peak values

Rank
WEA 4509-91900-2
Made in France

Track 1 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 2 Peak level 85.8 %
Track 3 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 4 Peak level 95.0 %
Track 5 Peak level 88.3 %
Track 6 Peak level 97.6 %
Track 7 Peak level 86.2 %
Track 8 Peak level 88.7 %
Track 9 Peak level 85.0 %
Track 10 Peak level 92.5 %
Track 11 Peak level 96.5 %
Track 12 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 13 Peak level 95.6 %
Track 14 Peak level 96.8 %

 

I got the S/t and Queen is Dead for $10 each.
How? Luck.
I went online at Amazon for queen and someone listed cd from France. I took a gamble and got that for $10
Then, I was in Amoeba and got the s/t for $8.
That was within the past year, BTW.
They are not amazing, but they are better than the current cds.

The best cd, IMO, is the best of mastered by Inglot from WEA.

 

Here are the results so far

"RT" - original Rough Trade release (if RT different pressings have different peaks then these are plotted separately)

"RT/Sire" - original US pressings

WEA - so far worldwide WEA pressings for each title have been shown to be identical

The "track #" follows the version of each album with the most tracks. If a particular edition has less tracks then this is shown as a gap in the data.

I've opted to show the peak levels in such a way as to illustrate how the level of each track varies through the album. Of course, it should be noted that the EAC peaks do not necesarily accurately represent the actual level of a track. Even if one track has a lower average level than another, EAC may show it to have a higher peak level since there need only be one high level sample to push the EAC peak reading up. Despite this caveat the EAC peak can still be a fairly good indication as the relative level of each track - just bear in mind that it is not definitive.

 

..

 

The main conclusion to draw from these plots is that if the peaks for different editions are not identical then the mastering is different. However, bear in mind that if the peaks are identical that doesn't mean the mastering is neccesarily identical although it is highly likely that this would indicate identical mastering.

Case in point - my Australian Festival pressing of "The Queen Is Dead" has the unique alternate edit of "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others". Despite this difference the EAC peak values for that disc are identical to all other RT pressings. My guess is that the disc is identical to the other RTs apart from the alternate intro to "Some Girls" - that is, even the rest of "Some Girls" is identical and the alternate version is simply a digitally edited version of the same A->D transfer. Without further investigation this is just guesswork of course.

The main goal here was simply to find out whether the different CD editions of the Smiths albums did indeed use different mastering or not - for that purpose the analysis presented here is sufficient.

As to the question of which editions sound the best is going to be harder to come to agreement on since not everyone will have all editions. Suffice to say, every time I have compared an original RT to either an RT/Sire or a WEA the RT has clearly come out on top. My advice is to start saving for those RTs!!

Thanks for all you input

 

Crap. I just got my Louder than Bombs (Amazon.co.uk marketplace), and it's a WEA. I'll do the comparison vs the Sire/RT I have, and then continue to look for a true RT. The funny thing being, because of this thread, there's probably going to be a little bit more demand right now for these, so maybe I'll wait a little while, and *then* look.

Peak values are important. But if you have wav editing software, you can also get the rms value, which is an indicator of overall loudness. With both the peak values and rms, you can compare two versions to say if one has been substantially clipped or not.

 

Thanks for all the hard work Mal....it is appreciated.