The Smiths - CD comparison thread

@kevin - interesting! I just went back and listened to a few tracks from the 2011 remaster of LTB. I still have a tough time getting past the compression (DR6-8 compared to DR11-14 is a major difference, quite audible IMHO).

In addition, on a track like Sheila Take a Bow, I find the remaster, while having nice bass, is a bit crispy - if anything more aggressive than the original US Sire, with more sibilance in Morrissey's vocals.

Here's a three-way comparison:



The purple, in front, is the original 1987 US Sire. The green, in the middle, is the 1987 German Line "Sheila Take a Bow" EP CD. And the red, in the rear, is the 2011 Rhino Marr remaster. Ignore the dB scale - I've arranged them to compare the EQ, not the absolute volume/loudness.

For much of the frequency spectrum, a thin sliver of the the 2011 remaster's waveform is visible above the German Line's. This includes 250Hz-2.5kHz, and 9kHz to about 15kHz. This means their EQ profiles are more or less identical in these areas (because I shifted the red up slightly so it would be visible behind the green).

So their main areas of difference are in the bass: 20-250Hz, where the 2011 remaster clearly is boosted over the German Line. And in the upper-mids and lower treble: 2.5kHz-9kHz, where even with my visual shifting, the 2011 remaster is barely visible, because the German Line is slightly boosted here relative to the 2011 remaster.

So there you have it: in terms of bass and mid/upper treble, the 2011 remaster is boosted more than the German Line, with the German Line putting (relatively) more emphasis than the remaster on that 2.5-9kHz range.

To each his own of course. But that area where the German Line is more prominent corresponds with what I like when I hear it: the upper ranges of Morrissey's voice and Marr's guitar, along with some of the upper harmonics and parts of the high-end percussion, are a little more forward and clear, while the overall dynamic range remains high.

 

To revive an old tack. After getting most of the CD versions I want or need, I am now thinking of dipping my toes in the vinyl (if that doesn't sound too icky). I can't face going all the way back through these threads, so can anyone tell me if there was any consensus (or just give your own opinion) on the difference between the 2009 and the 2011/12 Rhinos? If one edition is particularly preferred or just much better? (I also posted this on the Smith Comparison thread, but no takers. I see this is more active here.)

 

It shouldn't be too long before someone comes in and - quite helpfully - tells you to buy only original UK Rough Trade versions.

Unfortunately I can't answer your actual question because I haven't heard either of the reissues, and I'm not sure if they are, in fact, the same (but it's a good question and I'm curious to know the answer, too). All I know is that those 2009 versions looked like crap - the cover art was very grainy, as if the images were poorly sourced and had to be blown up or something. That kind of thing probably doesn't matter to most people here, but it would irk the hell out of me. Also, iirc, I don't believe the comps (Hatful, TWWL, Louder) were done in 2009, and that there are only 2011s for those.

 

Damn you, now I'm going to have to track this sucker down!

But in all seriousness, thanks for "taking one for the team" and sharing all this info with us.

 

Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised on the UK RT versions. I'll try to pick them gradually. What you say about the comps rings a bell. Good artwork is always nice but, in this case, if the remasters get a thumbs-up, I'll get them.

 

I would argue that probably more brilliant music was released by The Smiths on singles than the albums (apart from TQID) so you may as well try to track down the 12" singles, which will be RT originals. True much of this stuff was released on the compilation albums but it can never sound so good as it does on the 12" 45rpm issues. All Porky cuts as well I'd imagine so they sound wonderful.

 

UK Rough Trade 12" singles. Sound fantastic,especially "How Soon Is Now".

 

Currently I only have cd boxset "Complete", and yet cant say much of the bands catalogue as I havent studied enough (heard most of the album though anyways).

But one thing I can say, in my honest opinion, "How Soon Is Now?" is one of the best singles ever released.
And in fact, I have been shuffling different music at work today and now by accident the song is playing in the background as Im writing this post.

 

Best b-side ever released?

 

Oh, yes. B-side, sorry my mistake.

 

While I think that the Smiths were as much an album band as a singles band, I totally agree that those UK 12"s (and the German Stop Me 12") sound absolutely amazing. I think they're well worth tracking down. I've managed to collect almost all of them, and all for $20 or less a piece.

And it was when I started collecting those 12"s that I realized just how bad the Sire Louder Than Bombs is regardless of format.

 

Oh, it was my pleasure - I ended up with what may be my favorite-sounding versions of five Smiths tracks, and got a nice little collectible in the bargain.

I would also like to say that I'm really enjoying this thread - everyone is being kind, staying focused on the fun stuff, and sharing great info. Very cool.

 

And no "The Draize Train", which is one of my favorite Smiths songs. Even though its mix is too thin. Definitely should've been there instead of a mere different mix of an album track ("Hand in Glove") IMO. But that doesn't prevent LTB from being a fantastic release, of course.

 

I'll take that as an endorsement! I guess you probably have no need for the re-issued Rhino singles (if they were separate from that mega-sized one?), but have you had a chance to compare any recent vinyl singles to the RTs?

 

So, on the subject of cobbling together one's own superior sounding Louder Than Bombs CD from good, alternate CD sources, this is what seems to be the deal:

The following songs cannot be sourced from Hatful of Hollow, The World Won't Listen, or the German Line CD EP:

Golden Lights - this is on a Rough Trade Ask CD EP from 1988, but I've never heard it and don't know the source. This can also be found on the Japanese TWWL (which I've never heard), and the 2011 TWWL remaster (but this is loud, like the LTB remaster). There was also a CD on WEA from the 90s, but since none of the other WEAs sound ideal, I'm skeptical about this one.
These Things Take Time - this is on a Rough Trade What Difference Does It Make CD EP released in 1988; I have no idea how this sounds or from where it was sourced.
Back To The Old House - same as above. (This one's also on at least two different How Soon Is Now CD EPs from the early 90s, on WEA and Warners, but I'm skeptical about those).
Stretch Out And Wait - can't find another RT CD with this; unless I'm mistaken, this would have to be needle dropped from the 12" (the version on TWWL is, of course, different).

So, this has got me curious about the Ask and What Difference CD EPs. Does anyone have these? I'd love to know how they sound.

(There were also RT CD EPs for some of the other singles, like Heaven Knows, William, and Boy w/ The Thorn In His Side, which I also haven't heard).

If anyone has anything to add to this, or if I've overlooked something, please let me know!

 

Oh, and of course the German Line CD I reference above is the 7-track Sheila Take A Bow one that tmtomh discussed further up.

 

Also - Stretch Out And Wait appears on both Headmaster Ritual and Barbarism Begins At Home CD EPs (also both RT from 1988), but according to Discogs they're both slightly longer, like the alternate vocal version on TWWL, so I suspect these versions are from TWWL?

Sheesh - such a complicated discography!

 

Best b-side and single!!!!! First released as a b-side in William it was really nothing,, it was later released as a single in his own rights.

 

You can find information on different released versions on passionsjustlikemine.com

 

Yup - I'm well acquainted with that site. It's a great source of info.

 

Thanks for this round-up. A couple of comments:

Golden Lights: This is indeed available on the 1993 German WEA version of TWWL, which is plentiful and inexpensive on the used market. I prefer the original UK Rough Trade mastering on this album, but the German WEA is not at all bad on most songs - and Golden Lights is one of them. To my years it sounds good, and it's plenty dynamic. (And Money Changes Everything sounds good too - so my homemade 18-track TWWL is just the UK Rough Trade, with these two tracks added in from the German WEA.)

These Things Take Time, Back to the Old House, Stretch Out and Wait: Do I assume correctly that you're talking about the specific versions of these tracks that were included on LTB? I confess that while I love The Smiths and collect a lot of their stuff, I'm not a completist. And since I really prefer the version of Back to the Old House from Hatful of Hollow, and don't have a strong version-preference on the other two, I haven't bothered to seek out alternate sources of these particular versions. But it's good to know where they can be found though - thanks!

 

Let's continue here:

The Smiths - CD comparison thread (part2)