Kinda of agree , for me Years of Refusal is too high , id put that in the bottom three..Great to see the new one after a 26 years gap competing with those established classics in the top two
So his top albums total (including the smiths) The Queen is Dead - 4.87 Vauxhall and I - 4.4 Strangeways Here We Come - 4.35 Your Arsenal - 4.275 Meat is Murder- 4.21 I Am Not a Dog on a Chain - 4.161 Viva Hate - 4.091 The Smiths - 4.06 You Are the Quarry - 3.88 Years of Refusal - 3.74 Ringleader of the Tormentors - 3.545 California Son - 3.538 Southpaw Grammar - 3.49 Low in High School - 3.334 World Peace is None of Your Business - 3.325 Maladjusted - 2.89 Again feels and looks right , maybe swap The Smiths and Viva Hate around
Well, it's not really comparing like with like as they are from different eras and are of different genres. I think it's pretty fair that The Smiths is considered to be the weakest of those early releases due to the production and the omission of This Charming Man. There are still some classic songs there though. And the latest album is rightly being hailed as a return to form and has brought quite a few fans back to the fold. The production and vocals are certainly imo stronger than the debut.
The Smith's debut is not audiophile quality, I will certainly give you that point. However, it was a dramatic artistic and highly influential statement that has held up well for a few decades now. I don't think we'll be saying that in 35 years about "I'm Not a Dog On a Chain". If so, I'll check back in here and eat some crow. It probably comes back to genres and era's as you say. I like the Smith's genre better and I like that era of Morrissey better as well. I wish I shared everyone's opinion of the new release here - Glad you enjoy it.
Oh, I think all of The Smiths albums will always be seen as more influential than all of Morrissey's albums. Without exception. That's part of the reason why I didn't post a crossover list of Smiths/Morrissey songs or albums. They are by different artists and will always be viewed differently. But that wouldn't necessarily make them all better. For example, I doubt many musicians have claimed to be influenced by Alain Whyte or Boz Boorer, but I would still rank Vauxhall and I higher than The Smiths. Nothing like as influential, but a better listening experience. Each to their own though, and it's been good to read everyone's opinions throughout the thread.
The final averages for all songs: 1 - Now My Heart is Full - 4.87 2 - Speedway - 4.86 3 - Everyday is Like Sunday - 4.848 4 - Suedehead - 4.786 5 - Jack the Ripper - 4.72 6 - Once I Saw the River Clean - 4.7 7 - You’re Gonna Need Someone on Your Side - 4.64 8 - Bobby, Don't You Think They Know? - 4.556 9 - Lenny's Tune - 4.545 10 - The Last of the Famous International Playboys - 4.543 11 - Life is a Pigsty - 4.533 12 - Glamorous Glue - 4.526 13 = Tomorrow - 4.5 13 = My Hurling Days Are Done - 4.5 15 - The More You Ignore Me, the Closer I Get - 4.477 16 - Irish Blood, English Heart - 4.476 17 - Jim Jim Falls - 4.471 18 - Some Say I Got Devil - 4.409 19 - Why Don’t You Find Out for Yourself - 4.37 20 = We’ll Let You Know - 4.36 20 = The National Front Disco - 4.36 22 - What Kind of People Live in These Houses? - 4.35 23 - Dear God Please Help Me - 4.342 24 - Hairdresser on Fire - 4.321 25 - Seasick, Yet Still Docked - 4.32 26 - It's Not Your Birthday Anymore - 4.316 27 - Nobody Loves Us - 4.304 28 = November Spawned a Monster - 4.2954 28 = First of the Gang to Die - 4.2954 30 - Staircase at the University - 4.286 31 - I Know It’s Gonna Happen Someday - 4.263 32 - Something is Squeezing My Skull - 4.262 33 - Lost - 4.2614 34 - Hold on to Your Friends - 4.2609 35 - Ganglord - 4.25 36 - Home is a Question Mark - 4.202 37 - Piccadilly Palare - 4.2 38 - Sunny - 4.175 39 - Trouble Loves Me - 4.16 40 - Come Back to Camden - 4.15 41 - Morning Starship - 4.143 42 - Alsatian Cousin - 4.135 43 - I Have Forgiven Jesus - 4.13 44 = I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris - 4.125 44 = Maladjusted - 4.125 46 - Late Night, Maudlin Street - 4.12 47 - Southpaw - 4.11 48 - It's Over - 4.107 49 - Disappointed - 4.1 50 - Knockabout World - 4.078 51 - Angel, Angel, Down We Go Together - 4.065 52 - You Have Killed Me - 4.0625 53 - Art-hounds - 4.048 54 - Boxers - 4.043 55 - Sister I’m a Poet - 4.042 56 - I Know Very Well How I Got My Name - 4 57 - Never Again Will I Be a Twin - 3.979 58 - I’ve Changed My Plea to Guilty - 3.976 59 - The Teachers Are Afraid of the Pupils - 3.96 60 - Billy Budd - 3.94 61 - My Love Life - 3.92 62 - Interlude - 3.905 63 - Days of Decision - 3.896 64 = The Secret of Music - 3.893 64 = I Wish You Lonely - 3.893 66 - I Thought You Were Dead - 3.891 67 = Will Never Marry - 3.875 67 = I'm OK By Myself - 3.875 67 = I Am Not a Dog on a Chain - 3.875 67 = Kiss Me a Lot - 3.875 67 = Istanbul - 3.875 72 - The Edges Are No Longer Parallel - 3.842 73 = Israel - 3.833 73 = Alma Matters - 3.833 75 - Shame is the Name - 3.824 76 - Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning - 3.818 77 = Christian Dior - 3.808 77 = My Dearest Love - 3.808 77 = Lady Willpower - 3.808 80 - Drag the River - 3.794 81 - Suffer the Little Children - 3.792 82 - Scandinavia - 3.786 83 - My Love, I'd Do Anything for You - 3.775 84 - Wedding Bell Blues - 3.769 85 - Spent the Day in Bed - 3.762 86 = Smiler With Knife - 3.75 86 = When Last I Spoke to Carol - 3.75 86 = Love is On Its Way Out - 3.75 89 - Driving Your Girlfriend Home - 3.74 90 - The Boy Racer - 3.7381 91 - Darling, I Hug a Pillow - 3.735 92 - The Youngest Was the Most Loved - 3.7321 93 - All You Need is Me - 3.726 94 - I'm Not Sorry - 3.72 95 - A Swallow on My Neck - 3.7125 96 - No One Can Hold a Candle to You - 3.708 97 = (I’m) The End of the Family Line - 3.7 97 = Spring-Heeled Jim - 3.7 99 - You Say You Don't Love Me - 3.696 100 - Mama Lay Softly on the Riverbed - 3.694 101 - The Never-Played Symphonies - 3.6875 102 - I Am Hated for Loving - 3.68 103 - In the Future When All's Well - 3.679 104 - I Will See You in Far Off Places - 3.676 105 - Sing Your Life - 3.67 106 = I’d Love To - 3.667 106 = We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful - 3.667 108 - Friday Mourning - 3.647 109 - At Last I Am Born - 3.646 110 - You Know I Couldn't Last - 3.63 111 - It Happens Every Time - 3.6 112 - Drive-In Saturday - 3.59 113 - Used to Be a Sweet Boy - 3.5875 114 - The Loop - 3.5869 115 - Ouija Board, Ouija Board - 3.58 116 - Oboe Concerto - 3.575 117 - You Were Good in Your Time - 3.574 118 - Break Up the Family - 3.573 119 - Pregnant for the Last Time - 3.568 120 - Back on the Chain Gang - 3.567 121 = I Bury the Living - 3.566 121 = One of Our Own - 3.566 123 - Do Your Best and Don't Worry - 3.56 124 - Mute Witness - 3.555 125 - Let Me Kiss You - 3.553 126 - Jacky's Only Happy When She's Up on the Stage - 3.545 127 - Yes, I am Blind - 3.543 128 = Julie in the Weeds - 3.542 128 = Don't Interrupt the Sorrow - 3.542 130 = Reader Meet Author - 3.5326 130 = You’re the One for Me, Fatty - 3.5326 132 - In Your Lap - 3.528 133 - Interesting Drug - 3.519 134 - Brow of My Beloved - 3.516 135 - Satan Rejected My Soul - 3.51 136 = He Knows I’d Love to See Him - 3.5 136 = Only a Pawn in Their Game - 3.5 138 - Forgive Someone - 3.484 139 - The Truth About Ruth - 3.483 140 - Little Man, What Now? - 3.48 141 - Lucky Lisp - 3.476 142 = There is a Place in Hell for Me and My Friends - 3.4722 142 = The World is Full of Crashing Bores - 3.4722 144 - I Can Have Both - 3.4625 145 = I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now - 3.4615 145 = Lover-to-Be - 3.4615 147 - Don't Make Fun of Daddy's Voice - 3.458 148 - One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell - 3.456 149 - Kick the Bride Down the Aisle - 3.447 150 - If You Don't Like Me, Don't Look at Me - 3.446 151 - The Father Who Must Be Killed - 3.442 152 - A Song From Under the Floorboards - 3.4375 153 - Rose Garden - 3.433 154 - Skin Storm - 3.42 155 - Lifeguard on Duty - 3.418 156 - Munich Air Disaster 1958 - 3.406 157 = I'm Not a Man - 3.4 157 = I Don’t Mind If You Forget Me - 3.4 159 - The Lazy Sunbathers - 3.381 160 - When You Close Your Eyes - 3.364 161 - World Peace is None of Your Business - 3.357 162 - Teenage Dad on His Estate - 3.355 163 - Black Cloud - 3.329 164 - To Me You Are a Work of Art - 3.327 165 - Roy's Keen - 3.325 166 - Let the Right One Slip In - 3.321 167 - America is Not the World - 3.318 168 = Mountjoy - 3.3095 168 = Such a Little Thing Makes Such a Big Difference - 3.3095 170 - Honey You Know Where to Find Me - 3.3088 171 - Action is My Middle Name - 3.306 172 - It's Hard to Walk Tall When You're Small (Whyte) - 3.294 173 - Whatever Happens, I Love You - 3.29 174 - I Knew I Was Next - 3.286 175 - You Should Have Been Nice to Me - 3.2778 176 - Certain People I Know - 3.2775 177 - Ammunition - 3.275 178 - The Operation - 3.26 179 = Because of My Poor Education - 3.25 179 = I'm Playing Easy to Get - 3.25 179 = Good Looking Man About Town - 3.25 179 = You'll Be Gone - 3.25 179 = By the Time I Get to Wherever I'm Going - 3.25 184 - That's How People Grow Up - 3.237 185 - I Like You - 3.22 186 - Redondo Beach - 3.217 187 - That’s Entertainment - 3.2125 188 - Loneliness Remembers What Happiness Forgets - 3.212 189 - Human Being - 3.2 190 - My Life is a Succession of People Saying Goodbye - 3.17 191 - The Ordinary Boys - 3.167 192 = To Give (The Reason I Live) - 3.161 192 = Our Frank - 3.161 194 - On the Streets I Ran - 3.154 195 - Happy Lovers at Last United - 3.15 196 - Michaels Bones - 3.146 197 - Best Friend on the Payroll - 3.13 198 - Earth is the Loneliest Planet - 3.125 199 - Cosmic Dancer - 3.12 200 = The Public Image - 3.115 200 = I Just Want to See the Boy Happy - 3.115 200 = Blue Dreamers Eyes - 3.115 203 - He Cried - 3.112 204 = Mexico - 3.107 204 = Judy Is a Punk - 3.107 206 - Wide to Receive - 3.1 207 - Kit - 3.097 208 - Have-a-Go Merchant - 3.095 209 - I Am Two People - 3.094 210 = Dial-a-Cliché - 3.0625 210 = People Are the Same Everywhere - 3.0625 212 - The Girl from Tel-Aviv Who Wouldn't Kneel - 3.053 213 - Now I Am a Was - 3.03 214 - Tony the Pony - 3.025 215 - King Leer - 3.02 216 - Heir Apparent - 3.0133 217 - Striptease With a Difference - 3.0132 218 - At Amber - 3 219 - Bengali in Platforms - 2.98 220 - This Song Doesn't End When It's Over - 2.96 221 - Margaret on the Guillotine - 2.958 222 - When You Open Your Legs - 2.934 223 - Dagenham Dave - 2.932 224 - Sorry Doesn't Help - 2.931 225 - It's Hard to Walk Tall When You're Small (Cobrin) - 2.926 226 - All the Lazy Dykes - 2.912 227 - Children in Pieces - 2.911 228 - Pashernate Love - 2.908 229 - Neal Cassidy Drops Dead - 2.9 230 - All the Young People Must Fall in Love - 2.889 231 - Who Will Protect Us from the Police? - 2.882 232 - Girl Least Likely To - 2.88 233 - Black-Eyed Susan - 2.875 234 - How Can Anybody Possibly Know How I Feel? - 2.868 235 - You’ve Had Her - 2.86 236 - This is Not Your Country - 2.84 237 = The Bullfighter Dies - 2.833 237 = Ambitious Outsiders - 2.833 237 = Sweetie-Pie - 2.833 240 - Are You Sure Hank Done It This Way? - 2.827 241 - Satellite of Love - 2.817 242 - Moonriver - 2.76 243 - I Didn't Know What to Do - 2.75 244 - You Must Please Remember - 2.74 245 - East West - 2.73 246 - Fantastic Bird - 2.708 247 - There Speaks a True Friend - 2.625 248 - The Kid's a Looker - 2.588 249 - Papa Jack - 2.55 250 - Please Help the Cause Against Loneliness - 2.548 251 - Oh Well, I’ll Never Learn - 2.53 252 - The Slum Mums - 2.52 253 - Journalists Who Lie - 2.5 254 - Asian Rut - 2.45 255 - Trash - 2.33 256 - Found, Found, Found - 2.31 257 - Noise is the Best Revenge - 2.23 258 - Safe Warm, Lancashire Home - 2.12 259 - Oh Phoney - 2.1 260 - Born to Hang - 2 261 - Sorrow Will Come in the End - 1.99 262 - The Harsh Truth of the Camera Eye - 1.97 263 - Get Off the Stage - 1.95 264 - Treat Me Like a Human Being - 1.71
In "Once I Saw The River Clean," what are the "20 number tens" his grandmother is going to buy? Cigarettes?
Apparently yes - on the genius lyrics site there is reference to Player's No. 10, a cigarette brand (which I had not heard of previously).
Is it possible for Smiths fans to listeen to and appreciate Gene? I just tried again and I can't. They probably have some fans but it was all so samey I can't find any room for Gene by comparison,
The genius of that lyric is that anyone of a certain age will remember being dispatched to the local shop to get cigarettes for parents ....and being served without any problem...and I brought loads of ex jukebox singles from newsagents ...metal guru indeed
The later albums get a bit more “mod”..maybe early small faces is a better fit ..but I here echoes of Sound affects era Jam too
