The Smiths/Morrissey - song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Turk Thrust, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.K.
    The ratings for Is It Really So Strange?:

    1-0
    2-0
    3-4
    4-10
    5-3
     
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  2. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.K.
    Today's song is Sweet and Tender Hooligan:



    One of many songs inspired by Morrissey's fascination with crime, this is better than most due to some humorous lyrics. One of the lines is indeed very similar to a joke later used in the TV show The Day Today.

    While it's a worthwhile track, and far better than most groups' b-sides, it's not absolutely classic material though imo. And I've always felt that the songs from this era collectively lack a little heart. Many fine tracks, but not as personal as the group at their best.

    3/5
     
  3. The MEZ

    The MEZ Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    2.5 rounded up to 3/5 for " Hooligans"......
     
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  4. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    "Sweet and Tender Hooligan"

    Some nice goth-style guitar to open, and bags of energy. The best of the three songs on this 12" for me. Again it doesn't fully connect with me, but I think this one has enough to elevate it to a 4/5.

    I wonder if my problem with these three tracks isn't just their position in the discography - coming after The World Won't Listen meant that they weren't on any album that I listened to during the crucial formative years, thus I haven't heard them as much and they have always seemed a little bit distant from the rest of the catalogue (similar to "Jeane" and "Wonderful Woman").
     
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  5. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    "Sweet and Tender Hooligan" is a rare example of a Smiths song that I actually used to like a little bit more than I do now. It's another one of their heavier tracks, obviously, with Joyce and Rourke pummeling their instruments into submission, while Marr lays down some scorching guitar. Simon Goddard calls it a "refreshing return to the savage unruliness of 'Handsome Devil'," and he's not wrong, though I'd give the edge to "Handsome Devil" in terms of the overall quality of the song. But I ultimately don't feel like "SaTH" is a top-level composition from Marr; it's not quite up to his usual, highly distinctive standard. The song relies as much on its raw energy as its any chord progressions/hooks, and if you take away that punk-ish energy, I don't think it's his most memorable composition. But it's by no means bad at all - I do like it.

    It's weird: Some people have been complaining about Morrissey's lyrics in some of the recently discussed songs, and I don't have any issues with his words on those particular songs, but I do find Morrissey's lyrics for this song to be kind of underwhelming. I mean, they suit the tone of the music, and he delivers them well, but I just don't think they're quite up to his usual standard.

    It's not a song I'd typically choose to listen to by itself, but I think it fits in quite well on Louder Than Bombs, and it works in the context of the whole "Sheila" 12".

    (I did think it was strange when, back in 1995, it was issued posthumously as its own single [with that godawful boxing cover that looked more like a solo Morrissey release, and with some of their least-liked B-sides]. This song just isn't A-side material to me, so I wasn't sure what the point of that single was other than a quick cash grab by the label. [By the way, has anyone seen how much that single fetches these days? Insane! My local record shop had this on their wall of rarities last year for $100, and it was snapped up within a few weeks. And to think I bought it new for like $8.00 when it came out.])

    3.5/5
     
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  6. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Sweet & Tender Hooligan
    2 out of 5.

    lyrics are just too repetitive, especialy the Etcetera etcetera part. I would've given it a 1, but I like the turn of phrase to "in the midst of life we are in DEBT"
    I like the Smiths rockers but this one just doesn't work for me
     
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  7. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Yeah, speaking from my own experience, I think if one had Louder Than Bombs before TWWL, then these three songs would seem like a really vital part of the discography, especially since on LTB they're all featured prominently on side one.
     
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  8. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    :yikes:
    Crappy 90s digipak for the cd and that art that matched World of Morrissey more than anything else. Once I got a cd burner I popped the random songs on a hard drive and probably sold it for a nickel..
     
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  9. Blame The Machines

    Blame The Machines Forum Resident

    Location:
    Swindon
    Sweet and Tender Hooligan - This is the nearest they came to making a Goth Fields of the Nephilim/The Cult type record. A bit to droney & repetitive for my liking. "Etecetra, Etecetra ...." 2.5/5
     
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  10. Freek999

    Freek999 Forum Resident

    Sweet And Tender Hooligan 5/5
     
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  11. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Same
     
  12. TexasBuck

    TexasBuck Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Sweet And Tender Hooligan - This is one of my top 5 Smith's songs. I certainly have a bias for the faster more rockin' songs in the catelog. I fell in love with Hooligan at first listen. Great main guitar riff but Marr unleashes the whole song, especially the ending. The lyrics are hilarious. Some great visual story telling. The energy is tremendous. I'm shocked that this is a later day song. I would have guessed it was an earlier composition due to the rawness and urgency. 5 out of 5 ranking.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  13. mikaal

    mikaal Sociopathic Nice Guy

    Not a fave for me. I listen up to the "etceteras" then it's skip city. 3/5
     
  14. Luisboa

    Luisboa Forum Resident

    Location:
    Coimbra, Portugal
    3/5.
     
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  15. Lamus

    Lamus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tempe, Arizona
    4/5 for Hooligan- I actually like the repetitive nature of it. There is no chorus. It's the same riff the entire way through but the vocal part changes to keep it interesting. The intro is great with the phased guitar. I love the lyrics and Morrissey's melodic phrasing, particularly during the line "Poor woman.....because she was old and she would've died anyway".

    And Johnny letting it rip at the end...is this the first time he's gotten this close to a canonical rock solo?
     
  16. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    An easy 5/5 for Sweet and Tender Hooligan. One of my top six Smiths tracks, the band at their rockin'est (so it's maybe a little odd that it's a favourite, but it is!).
     
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  17. smoke

    smoke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Sorry if I missed anything in the last 72 pages but I just have to join you in recognizing what great bass playing graces The Smiths recordings.
     
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  18. Hollow Horse

    Hollow Horse To pretend to be happy could only be idiocy

    I've always known it as crutch and he sings it as crutch... I really couldn't care less what anyone else thinks.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  19. Hollow Horse

    Hollow Horse To pretend to be happy could only be idiocy

    IS IT REALLY SO STRANGE... 4/5

    Newport Pagnell revisited! Why is the last mile the hardest mile? A lot of fun in this number... "I got confused, I killed a horse"... say, what? I think the fact that lyrically it's all over the shop really makes this one of those special Smiths songs, worthy of an 80% mark-up though not like...

    SWEET AND TENDER HOOLIGAN... 5/5

    ...where this is in my top 5 Smiths songs. This one has to be played LOUD. Throw the windows open and fill the whole street with it. Doesn't matter if it gives Mr. Taylor three Doors down a fatal coronary because he was old and he would've died anyway. ETCETERA. ETCETERA. In the midst of life...
     
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  20. Snoddywilko

    Snoddywilko Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Is It Really So Strange?

    Another jaunty Smiths song sprinkled with Moz’s idiosyncratic lyrics. Plenty of fun, throwaway lines, but superb nonetheless.

    4/5

    Another late-period thrasher, but more successful than London, in my opinion. Especially love the lyrics:

    “He was a sweet and tender hooligan, hooligan
    And he swore that he'll never, never do it again
    And of course he won't (oh, not until the next time)
    Poor old man
    He had an "accident" with a three-bar fire
    But that's o.k.
    Because he wasn't very happy anyway
    Poor woman
    Strangled in her very own bed as she read
    But that's o.k.
    Because she was old and she would have died anyway”

    I’ve always felt that the ETC coda is a little out of Moz’s range, though, leaving him straining a bit, so I’ll rate this one a 3.5/5
     
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  21. Gavaxeman

    Gavaxeman Take me back to dear old Blighty...

    Location:
    West Midlands U.K.
    Etc etc etc etc

    Sweet and tender .. 3/5 .. doesn’t quite hit the mark .. but that’s ok..

    Etc etc etc
     
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  22. Paul Rymer

    Paul Rymer Forum Resident

    Sweet and Tender Hooligan 4/5 - sounds like a live in the studio take to me - was it?
     
  23. Rgfinch

    Rgfinch King Rocky

    Location:
    Uk
    4/5 for me. Like many others I like it because it shows how muscular they could be. I always felt the production on their studio albums (especially the last two) made them sound a bit weedy.
     
  24. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    U.K.
    Yeah, its another BBC session.
     
  25. Hollow Horse

    Hollow Horse To pretend to be happy could only be idiocy

    YES INDEEDY!!!
     

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