The Sound Of Vinyl

Graham, I think you've simply nailed it with why it is a big issue for me compared to some other vinyl users.

As I said, the vast majority of my record collection are 12" singles, and a lot of remixed pop and dance, so the same track extends from beginning to almost end many times, and I always felt indeed the difference was "night and day".

And also, what you say about "quiet" songs I can relate to, that is why to my ears the distortion goes away as the track starts to fade. Same thing with songs that have little high frequencies, but unfortunately because of the music I listen to on vinyl, many do have quite strong treble.

That is very interesting, I suspected that there was some intentional arrangement with the tracks, because most radio edits are always the last on the record, giving the DJ-club oriented extended version priority, which makes sense since they are the primary users of the 12" single.

On the mistracking side, do you think with my current setup (1210MK2, Ortofon Concorde Night Club spherical) I could reduce it? If so, what steps do you recommend?

 

Actually ... it can sometimes be mitigated with a microline/fineline/microridge (whatever, same idea) stylus. If the damage was caused by a big fat spherical, the more extreme stylus stips can sometimes bypass the damage.

I don't think that cartridge is going to be doing you any favours put it that way. Its designed for very high output and mistreatment (ie. DJ considerations), audiophile subtleties don't come into it.

 

Thanks, I will definitely try another cartridge. With the background you have on my record collection type (mostly pop/dance 12" singles), which of the two do you recommend for me?

Shure M97xE or AT440MLa

 

Dave. Thanks for the thread address. At least I know that the imperfect "s" sounds are a function of the Eva Cassidy album and not my TT. I would, however, describe what I hear not as a snake ssssssss sound but rather something sounding more like an electronic static noise. And again, only on the last song of each side (which unfortunately includes "Over the Rainbow")

 

Actually, with magnetic tape, the head and tail of the tape contain more dropouts than the middle.

Derek

 

You are right, I remember my childhood days...my cassettes and waiting those extra seconds until some of the tape had rolled to start the source.

And I also remember recording my first 12" single (Madonna's "Live To Tell") on my father's Ampex reel tape, and it sounded goody goody.

 

As others have said, your cartridge here is the main culprit. The problem is that durability (needed for DJing) and good tracking (needed for better sound) are two design elements that are mutually exclusive. DJ carts need to have a thick cantilever and large, often conical, stylus to handle the back-cueing, high VTF, and generally rough handling that comes from DJing. Unfortunately, the stylii are so big that they simply cannot fit into those tight groove modulations. And thus DJ carts mistrack quite badly. Fortunately, in a nightclub environment, the sound levels are so high that nobody is going to notice the distortion and lack of detail.

The finer the stylus, the better it can track. The problem is that these are *much* too fragile for DJing. Using a quality listening cartridge for DJ work will result in a very short-lived cartridge and/or cut your records to ribbons.

Since you have a 1200, it's easy and inexpensive to get a different headshell. Keep the concorde for any DJing or mixing work you might be doing, and then pull out something finer for listening. I use a Shure V15VxMR, but it's no longer available. The Audio-Technica AT440MLa is quite a good tracker. Ortofon's Super OM 30 is another.

 

Now that I think about it, I always thought dropout at start and end of a tape was due to wear and tear, are you saying it is a characteristic inherent to the magnetic tape format?

 

Unless you have a good linear-tracking arm. I think a good one is going to be rare and expensive, however.

 

I think a linear tracking arm, good turntable set up, etc. will minimize inner groove distortion to a workable level. But it is always going to be there due to the geometry of the record itself.

 

Possibly it's mistracking; you could try upping the tracking force to the max.

 

Thanks Graham, I looked up the Super OM 30 and looks like it's in the US$150-180 range (That's three times as much for me in Argentine Pesos, yikes). Any suggested online or actual stores? I will be in Burbank in July.

This Ortofon OM 30 model allows me to keep using the Concorde and simply switch styli or not?

With the others I'd have to pull out the original Technics headshell I have in my closet, correct?

Just want to make sure I understand so I make a good decision, thanks!

 

You can't cure the fact that the record is cut at a constant speed, with the result that the information in the grooves becomes increasingly compressed toward the center of the record. However, as a rare user of a quality linear tracking tonearm, I find that the level of sound deterioration from this effect is minimal.

The more serious issue -- particularly if you are using a straight relatively short tonearm -- is the errors in geometry of the cartridge and record grooves on the inner tracks (i.e. the cartridge stylus is not precisely parallel with the groove at the point of contact). Assuming you don't want to pay for a linear tracking or laser turntable, your best bets are to:

1. If you are using a short straight tonearm, replace it. These are OK for DJ use, but you are simply going to be frustrated trying to get it to track properly on inner tracks. (I don't like to recommend that Forum members replace equipment, but these DJ arms simply can't be made to sound right.) Go for a longer tonearm with an S-curve or which has otherwise been seriously designed to minimize tracking errors.

2. Make sure the tonearm and cartridge are adjusted properly. All errors are exaggerated as you move toward the center of the record.

 

The Ortofon Concorde series are nice in the respect that they replace the headshell on the 1200 tonearm. They cannot be used on any other tonearm (except possibly other 1200 clones, of which there are many). There's no alignment to be done; just set VTF, VTA, and antiskate.

 

Ortofon have a list of the styli and which models they will fit here.


Does anyone know if an elliptical or microline tip would be ok for 12" singles?

 

Yes, a decent listening cartridge will cost at least $100 USD. However, if used with care, they can last many years so I think of them as a worthwhile investment.

I live in Canada, and there simply are no suitable stores for cartridges... at least not that I've found in Toronto. It's all either low-end junk by places that know nothing about vinyl, DJ stuff, or high-end moving coil units that cost two grand each, not including step-up transformer. So online is the way to go for me.

I've ordered from Garage-A-Records and KAB USA and been satisfied with both. KAB USA specializes in 1200-related items, so they might be a good place to start.

I'm not sure... Some Ortofon DJ carts can use the stylii from their OM carts. But KAB USA sells a cart that is essentially a Concorde-style cart with a very nice stylus.

Correct. You would also need a protractor or alignment gauge to set it up properly (the plastic gauge that comes with the 1200 is absolutely useless... trust me on that one).

 

Heck, a microline stylus is the only way you can listen to some of those 12s without mistracking! Just don't treat them like a DJ cartridge. That means *no back-cueing* and one should ideally use the cue lever instead of handling the tonearm directly. Also, ensure that they are properly aligned and set up. The VTF is usually around 1.5 - 2.0g for hi-fi carts... this will seem strangely light to those who are used to the +5g tracking forces needed on DJ carts.

 

Graham, I'm safe then on that end, I bought the turntable and cartridge in 1998 and never used them to DJ, I bought them for the sole purpose of enjoying my 12" singles with unavailable on CD tracks.

Guess I bought the wrong cartridge for my purpose! Better late than never to find out I can improve the playback quality, I'm actually quite excited about this.

Is the Ortofon model you recommend microline?

 

Why dont they mount the cutting units on a pivot like 99% of playback ststems? Wouldnt this get rid of the problem we encounter currently...at least we could have percect tracking from start to finish with pivot arms, if it were cut on a pivot. Computers could control a motor operated pivot or something precisely. Anyone have a reason why this is not done?

 

It's listed as a fine-line, which I think is much the same thing.

I've only used the OM-10 (came with my old Dual TT, not a good tracker) and the OM-20 (*much* better than the 10, but not quite at the level as the Shure V15). There was also a 40 stylus available, I think it was Van den Hul profile... I thought it was discontinued, but I still see places offering it.

 

Because not all pivoted arms are the same length.

That said I think comments suggesting that you will always suffer end of side distortion unless you use a parallel tracker are overstating the problem. Properly set up a good cartridge on a good arm will suffer so minimally on most records that you basically wouldn't know.

 

10 and 20 are elliptical, 30 is fine line (Yes same thing) and the 40 is an FG70 profile. The 40 stylus is still available but you can't buy it as a cartridge.

That said the bottom of the the range OM5e is pretty cheap, and if you wanted to go straight to the OM40, you could buy an OM5e and an OM40 stylus for about the same as an OM40 would have cost anyway.

 

Well, I fell for thinking that a linear arm would totally outdo a pivoted arm, expecting plain elliptical styli to track like microlines. Wrong! It's the stylus profile that really matters, in my experience, and I quickly learned that the linear and the pivoted are actually pretty close in the tracking department—closer than the degrees of distortion when you look at the position of the stylus away from the null point would have you believe is possible. What you do gain is little or no time/phase distortion from the stylus being parallel to the groove across the record, and not having to adjust anti-skate!

Just my two cents worth...

 

Is there any disadvantage of putting an OM30 stylus in an OM5E cartridge? Do I gain anything by paying the extra $80-$90 for the OM30 cartridge? I have noticed the inner grove distortion on my Project Debut III and have been thinking of switching to the OM30 cartridge.

Thanks.

 

Why, because the curvature gets to be too much near the center?