The SugarCube Is Here At Last...Clicks & Pops R.I.P.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DigMyGroove, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. PATB

    PATB Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Mine also froze last week. Had to reboot to recover.
     
  2. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    This is a Mac O/S specific tip.
    I ran into something today while recording 10 album sides on my SC-2 Mini. I recorded the LPs into memory and then I pre-processed them to make them .aac files. Then they were finally saved to my NAS drive as zipped files. Everything normal so far. When I began unzipping the files this is where the trouble started. Six of the zipped album sides saved out normally, creating a folder for the artist>>the LP name>>the file for the LP side and a .jpg of the album cover. Four of the sides created the folder for the artist>>the LP name>> and that was all. The LP side and album art were not there. I tried saving to my desktop with the same results. Hmmmm.

    Checking the file size of this "empty" folder with the Get Info command in th Finder showed me what was going on. These 4 "empty" folders took up 50-54MB each, with each one being different. There was something there but it was invisible. I had a feeling I knew what was wrong. Mac O/S X and O/S 11 are based on UNIX. Putting a "." in front of file name in UNIX renders that file or folder invisible in the Finder, along with any content further down the file pat. Sure enough the problem files were from the Nora Jones LP called: ...'Til We Meet Again. When unzipping the file the folder created with the LP name started with a "." rendering the contents of that folder invisible to the Finder.

    The solution was to go into the SC-2 Edit Menu and manually change the LP name to just: Til We Meet Again with no punctuation at the begging of the file name. Pre-Proccs again after renaming. Problem solved. The files saved out normally
     
  3. WDeranged

    WDeranged Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Six days later and I still can't spot any tonal changes from the bypassed signal.

    In other news I bought my first knowingly non-mint (cheap!) record. An original pressing of Jeff Wayne's War of The Worlds. There is one obvious scratch (not deep) and a fair amount of light scratches. It sounds excellent through the SugarCube. I even went for a copy with a worn looking cover, I thought it added to the victorian charm.

    I've also re-purchased the Queen Studio Collection for a very fair price. This box set is what tempted me back into vinyl but three or four small clicks per record broke my brain. I ended up selling my initial box on eBay.
     
    keiron99, csgreene, Ben Adams and 2 others like this.
  4. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    Welcome to the freedom provided by SugarCube. It’s sooooo nice.
     
    DigMyGroove, clhboa and keiron99 like this.
  5. JackJD

    JackJD All I Want is the Truth...

    Location:
    PA
    Just be careful to mind your stylus and cartridge (wear and/or possible damage) whilst enjoying your new found freedom and cheap ol' vinyl.

    Remember - just because you don't hear it anymore, doesn't mean it is not there...



    :wave:
     
    Shawn and csgreene like this.
  6. WDeranged

    WDeranged Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I'm not precious about my Rega Carbon. Though I'm thinking of upgrading to an Audio Technica elliptical at some point.
     
  7. luckyno13

    luckyno13 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    You could always put a Tonar E-flip or H-flip stylus on that Carbon.
     
  8. WDeranged

    WDeranged Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I might just look into that option. I don't have any issues with the Rega cart beyond a bit of IGD.
     
  9. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    This seems to be the week for my running into weird file saving anomalies. Earlier this week I left a tip related to the SC-2 Mini not liking an album name that began with "..." . This is a No-No in Mac OS/Unix file names and created an empty folder with an invisible album side in it.

    Yesterday I ran into one which I believe is on the Sugar Cube software. This problem had to do with a long artist and album name causing a problem. OS X and OS 11 have a 255 character file name limit. This LP and artist name was long, but not 255 characters long in total, so I think this was something the SC software didn't like.

    I was recording an LP and did a Discogs lookup. The lookup returned: "Sonny Rollins With The Modern Jazz Quartet, Art Blakey, Kenny Drew" as the artist and "Sonny Rollins With The Modern Jazz Quartet" as the LP name. They came into theAlbum Information dialog box correctly. They appeared to save out correctly with the right names and all. The Pre-Process step took 3 minutes, which is normal. The Transfer Files step appeared to go right. The problem came when I tried to Unzip the files. I got a error message:

    [​IMG]

    This is when I noticed that the .zip file had been saved out as: "--2021-09-22_19_49_26.zip". Based on the problem the other day I pulled up Album Info in the Record Tab and looked for an illegal character in the file name. Nope that wasn't it. Then I notice the long artist name of "Sonny Rollins With The Modern Jazz Quartet, Art Blakey, Kenny Drew" took up the entire artist name field and the words "...Kenny Drew" were not visible. You had to click your mouse in the Artist field and use the Right-Arrow keys to scroll to the right to display the rest of the name. It seems the Artist name being too long caused the File name to be truncated and somehow saved out as an empty file.
    [​IMG]

    I shortened the artist name to "Sonny Rollins" and all was well again. So if you see the artist name in the Sugar Cube software exceeds the length of the "Artist" field, try changing the name to shorten it so it fits entirely within the visible field width.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
    gabbleratchet7 likes this.
  10. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Media Doctor (& Video Gort) Staff

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Thanks for the bug notices... if you're not a techie, it's the little things like that that will drive you insane...

    - Kevin
     
  11. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    So my love affair with the SC is currently on the rocks. In 2019 I mentioned audible "tinks" I was hearing - they went away for some time, which I figured was due to a software update around the time I was discussing it, but on my current cartridge they are back again and I cannot tolerate them. I'd rather listen to natural clicks and pops than artificial tinks. Having done some investigating, and also conferring with the very helpful SweetVinyl, our conclusion was that the "tinks" are a resonance, an echo, in the cartridge caused by hitting whatever caused the click/pop in the first place and that the SC is correctly removing the click but it's out of the scope of the software to remove the later echo. So, this is not a bash at SweetVinyl or the SugarCube. I love the product. It's a game changer. But it's currently not working for me, so I'm now most interested to find out whether others hear the same thing and if so with what type of cartridges? Or, even better, if any solution was found... I'm hoping in the future to return to using the SC but it seems I will have to audition cartridges with the SC specifically in mind such that it doesn't cause the "tink" sound. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do that with my new cartridge! It would be nice to know whether some types of cartridges are more affected than others... and which types are not affected at all.

    To illustrate what I hear while listening I present two files - the first I have hand cleaned in iZotope RX, to give a clean reference against which the tinks should then be obvious:

    Sync | Secure cloud storage that protects your privacy

    And here is the SugarCube cleaning the file in real time:

    Sync | Secure cloud storage that protects your privacy

    [edit: is there a better way to host audio files so they might be played in the browser?]

    The audible artefacts present in this file are what are left behind after click removal, and what I refer to as "tinks" due to the sound they make.

    My current cartridge is a MSL Ultra Eminent EX, which is semi-line style stylus and boron cantilever.

    Would love some feedback from others on this - do you hear what I hear with your cartridge? If so, were you able to resolve? Or do you never hear? What cartridges are being used either way...
     
  12. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
  13. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    And note, I hear tinks on most clicks and pops - those in the above file are aggressive to bring out the tinks more clearly.
     
  14. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Oh NO. Being long past my bedtime I switched to my tablet where I am not logged in to degoo and it is forcing me to sign up or log in before listening or downloading.
    I did not know degoo did this.
    That is not what "share" means to me.

    I withdraw my note about degoo. Don't buy their paid service either (I didn't, I have only their free account.)
    I will ask a gort to delete my msg and your following msgs regarding degoo.

    In the meantime, wikisend.com allows free uploads up to 100mb and gives a link to download free without signup. wikisend deletes after 7 days unless you (the uploader) signs up. But downloads only.

    I'm sorry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  15. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    I can see the Degoo share here on my iPad without being logged in to the service…
     
  16. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    My tablet was "virgin" to degoo, never accessed it before, even for my stuff there. On that tablet, clicking the play button for your file popped up a window forcing me to sign up on that tablet.
    I don't know, even if you logged out, if you had signed in from the same iPad, even if you log out it could still let you access, but not others who never visited degoo before.
    I hereby do not trust degoo.

    Yes, I have checked, on my PC where I was logged in, I logged out, and I can still access and play your file. Because a cookie on my PC shows degoo that I already have an account there.

    I did not mean to force anyone to sign up there.

    Arrgh. I'm sorry.
     
  17. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
  18. keiron99

    keiron99 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockport, UK
    What a curious thing to happen. Sorry I can't be of any help - never heard anything like that on my system. How odd.
     
  19. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    Wow I have never heard anything like that with my TT and cartridge. My condolences and you are right that is clearly audible and totally unacceptable. The only weird anomaly I've ever heard was back in June and July 2020 where I got random static-like clicking clicking in the left channel. A restart of the SC-2 Mini fixed it until the next time. A firmware upgrade around the end of July fixed that for good for me.

    Was it the same cartridge both times you had the problem? Can you possibly return this cartridge and put the another one of the same type that was working for you before?

    For reference I am using an EAT Jo No. 8 MC cart with with a nude Shibata stylus and, like your cartridge, a boron cantilever.
     
    r.Din likes this.
  20. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    You've checked the wiring to the cartridge to make sure the wires aren't touching each other, and made sure the screws are snug?

    Given the rather large scale of the tink, perhaps something is reflecting from as far back as the counterweight.

    On my DIY arm, I recently experimented with maximizing damping. I learned that you CAN in fact, over-damp an arm and take all the life out of music. But I also learned that when damped to this level, surface noise (pops/ticks) are greatly, greatly reduced. Just switching from my polyurethane counterweight, to steel, increases surface noise by an order of a magnitude.

    So knowing this and if I were standing in front of your turntable, I'd just make sure there is nothing that can rattle on your arm. Leave any bearing adjustments alone but with light finger pressure just make sure nothing can rattle on the arm.

    It would be interesting to play the same album through a Parks Puffin, which accomplishes (via the "Magic" feature) transient noise suppression by interrupting the signal for some milliseconds. It would be interesting if the same tinks were left behind. Of course, the threshold on the Puffin (which I don't believe is adjustable) may be much higher.

    Of course the elephant in the room as that iZotope doesn't seem to leave any tinks behind, which would seem to defy logic if the problem is a resonance? iZotope can't be savvy to the resonances that occur only on your specific rig?
     
  21. dasacco

    dasacco Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachussetts
    Tinks heard very clearly. I'm not sure if it helps, but I ran your unrepaired sample through Click Repair at a very light setting, and the "tinks" are very much audible there as well.

    You can hear the results here:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/10bl1lwWaSe9fHshNqziWQJQMsxVGFwJM/view?usp=sharing
     
    r.Din likes this.
  22. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    Different cartridges and indeed different turntables...
     
  23. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the suggestion - that's certainly something I'll double check.

    I've experienced this on two different turntables now, so two different arms and two different cartridges. I had one cartridge on the last table that didn't tink, which is why I'm focussed on cartridges as perhaps the root cause...

    Yes, have seen similar myself.

    As above, different hardware had same issue so I don't think it's the arm, which is a Kuzma 4Point 11, in this instance.
     
  24. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    Thank you. iZoptope RX sounds exactly the same when it tries to clean. This is why I'm not blaming SugarCube here... there's something else going on and I'd love to get to the bottom of it.
     
    gabbleratchet7 and dasacco like this.
  25. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    No, it does. I manually cleaned the file of tinks for comparison purposes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021

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