The technical abilities of Brian Jones

To be clear you're saying Keith played the parts, right? Is there any footage or evidence of that?

 

Yes. It is the most likely scenario. There is evidence of Keith playing similar in 1967 - 1968.

JJF jangly bridge - Satanic Sessions bootlegs, in particular the ongoing takes of Gomper. Keith's 12 string guitar part during the song section features much the same approach as the bridge of JJF.

JJF chorus - One Plus One film where he is shown playing in open E. Barring at respective frets whilst playing little melodic lines with his 3rd and 4th fingers.

...

Th closest Brian came to any of that in the 1966 - 1968 time frame is playing his chrous part in GOOMC live in 1966 and 1967. But, Keith's parts as highlighted above are more similar to JJF.

As far as I am aware not one person involved, including Brian, has said Brian played electric guitar on the JJF studio recording. Bill has said Brian played acoustic which means he at the very least contributed to the driving rhythm of the Philips cassette recording.

...

Again, Brian usually played live what he had played in the studio. What he is shown playing in all available footage of JJF being played live or mimed is not heard from the electric guitars on the studio recording, but could perhaps fit with what is heard from the cassette recording.

 

Keith never sounded less Keith-like than he did from '67 up to Taylor's arrival. Lots of atypical saturated lead work that WASN'T Chuck Berry double stops, plus all the open-E stuff that he never revisited again - even when those songs were played live. The switch to open-G coincided with Taylor's arrival.

 

As good as Keith is at what he does, I think this was his best era as a guitarist. The combination of the Stones exploring new sounds and styles, using the studio to their best advantage, and not having another guitarist to fall back on meant that Keith kind of turned into a Brian Wilson with guitars

 

I just think it's strange that we know nothing about those session musicians. Even if they were session musicians, I still think Brian would be able to record those parts, but technology at the time didn't allow those overdubbs

 

It's quite normal for the session musicians to not be known. Eg, we know not the names of who played the strings on As Tears Go By, the horns on Have You Seen Your Mother, brass and strings on Something Happened To Me Yesterday and so on.

 

Miming, but two ace tracks where ALL the musicians work together to create magic.



What a band they were! Whatever the reasons and regardless of what came after, we lost something really special when this particular group of people could no longer work as one.

 

You did not understand what I mean. We know that Mike Leander arranged the horn sections and the orchestra on As Tears Go By, Have You Seen Your Mother, Something Happened To Me Yesterday. We also know that JPJ arranged the orchestra for Shes a Rainbow, but we know absolutely nothing about the Sing This All Together and The Lantern brass sections, not even who arranged it.

 

Because you only mentioned session musicians, not who did the arrangements for them.

 

Jim Dale presenter also songwriter for Twinky film soundtrack with starring Susan George. Dale always wrote Georgy Girl lyrics.

 

Thank You Lucky Stars....
Brian Jones in Lord Byron pose with quill in hand, such a beautiful poser.

 

Did the band ever comment on Brian being the photographers favorite, least it seems that way to me?
He always seemed to be the central figure in photo shoots Decca albums. photogenic/haircut perhaps ?
Much more than McCartney in that respect( always doing something different in group Beatle photo shoots). With the Stones Mick Taylor was a shrinking violet in comparison.

 

First, I am new on this forum and will have to spend considerable time to read all 34 pages (but will do so with pleasure). To respond to your question I can say that I, as a pro-bono representative of a bi-lingual fanclub magazine, spoke to photographer Gered Mankovitz almost two decades ago in his London - former church - studio. I remember very well that he said, that among photographers Brian Jones was the most popular member of the Rolling Stones in terms of photogenic visuality. Aparently he has a very symetrical face to start with, but also his hair style (after shampooing ...) appeared to be the most eye catching. Wether the band ever commented on this, I wouldn't know. I can not imagine that such an issue would be a popular subject.

 

The Stones became quite adept at pushing their image via photography.
Even Charlie gets into the act from time to time. Jagger and Jones did the
most to press the point.

But back to the music, as has been labored for the past 50 years, Brian seemed
to possess the gift of the arrangement. Now, I can't claim which songs are examples,
but it seems to me much was lost once Brian was gone. True, The Stones shed much
of their pop chops in deference to a rougher performance, but the sound lost an
interesting layer of complexity that was evident in earlier recordings, such as
"Paint It Black". Also, Bill Wyman is also important during the pop period,
performing interesting, playful basslines and experimental rhythmic bursts
on things such as organ pedals. A lot of irons were in The Stones' fire back
in those days and Brian and Bill had a lot to do with it.

 

Well I think David Bailey kept Mick out of the forefront as they were friends first and did not want to show favour to him over his band mates. N.b. Keith is in the front due to his acne on some covers likely so the fans could relate.

 

I read a fair bit of the past 34 pages and was surprised about some of the "violent" discussions. It happens(ed) on other sites too, but some have learned over time that thinking twice about what you put down in written words could change the general feeling in a positive way.
Although totally irrelivant, I will put my thoughts down on MHP's original question, but not before I express how I, as a 15 year young kid, "discovered the Rolling Stones" way back in early 1964 when I heard Not Fade Away on a local "pirate radio station".
What struck me was that I heard "a band"! (took me a couple of weeks to find out they were named The Rolling Stones). The song was full of instruments, including Mick's voice, and the balance of those instruments was superb.
This was a ("new") band I really wanted to get to know. Well, I was not disappointed. In those early days I (as, I think, most fans) was only interested in (and excited about) the "products" as a whole. Fantastic!
Now, after more than 55 years, the band ("totally" changed several times, both due to changing members as well as obvious influences from outside) still excites me. Essentially they never lost their root feelings, as "Blue and Lonesome" has proven. Some say that Brian is missing on those songs, but hey, times have changed. Their love for the blues hasn't.
Was Brian a genius? I refer to what Mick Jagger and even Keith (originally) said about Brian. Mick and Keith came up with songs at some point, but only to lay them in front of the other members of the band. Non of the songs would have surfaced as they did without the input of the other members. The input obviously varied per song. Sometimes Brian had ideas, sometimes Bill and even Charlie, not to forget Ian (and later on sometimes invited "outsiders").
So basically all Rolling Stones songs were and always have been a band effort. Brian, for some reason, often had "weird" ideas (whether or not influenced by his lack of song writing capabilities and/or wanting to keep a grip on the band, or just because he was "some kind of genius", who knows?) but they were very much welcomed by songwriters Mick and Keith (as they have stated in their own words) because they lifted songs to a special hight. Remarks on mis-timing by Brian on some records to me doesn't say anything about the quality of his input. You can find "errors" by Keith, Charlie or even Mick too. The Stones as a whole, despite their will to be perfectionists, has always been a messy band, both live and in the studio, but that is merely the charm of the band. They surely also heard the little mistakes, before records were released, but probably thought they weren't worth worrying about, because the song "felt good". It's the over-all feeling that counts to me too. Their music gives me positive energy and makes me feel happy. What more should one expect from music.
So all in all, in the beginning (when the Stones gradually grew into fame) Brian's input was pretty big (just watch real live clips, where Keith puts down solos on top of Brian's, modestly on the background, solid rhythm input, not to forget Bill and Charlie off course). Brian's slide efforts were admired even by greats like Clapton and Hendrixs! (so who are we?). Other succesful musicians have cheered his talented blues harp qualities. In the right mood (!) he delivered some masterpieces (going from I Wants To Be Loved, Little Red Rooster to No Expectations). Sadly he was a troubled young man (I know people who knew him very well from during his primary and highschool days in Cheltenham) due to all kinds of circumstances as well as his personal character. He paid the sad price for that.
But having said that, there is nothing wrong with praising him for what he was worth, and we have the freedom to agree or disagree. But the latter is not worth a "war", I think. Just put on the music, relax and close your eyes and a smile will appear on your face. My all time favourit clip is the 1964 live version of "I'm Alright" (Charlie introduced that Hank Snow song as a Bo Diddley song ...): a band "from another planet"!

 

It is bo not snow you're mixing up you're mixing up your got live ep cuts. Top post.

 

You're right ADTL, I'm Moving On is Snow, I'm Alright is Bo (sorry Charlie). Nevertheless, great rendition by super Stones.

 

My favourite Rolling Stones tracks
that feature Brian Jones playing
(any instrument) on them.

I Wanna Be Your Man
Not Fade Away
Route 66
Mona
Little By Little
Carol
Tell Me
Around and Around
Time Is On My Side
It's All Over Now
19th Nervous Breakdown
Grown Up Wrong
What A Shame
The Last Time
Stewed and Keefed
Heart of Stone
Little Red Rooster
Surprise Surprise
Get Off My Cloud
Out of Time
Paint It Black
If You Let Me
Yesterday's Paper
Let's Spend The Night Together
Ruby Tuesday
Who's Been Sleeping Here
We Love You
Jumpin Jack Flash
Street Fighting Man
No Expectations
Jigsaw Puzzle
Dear Doctor
Parachute Woman
Prodigal Son
Child of The Moon
You Got The Silver
Midnight Rambler

 

Great quote. Keith has never struck me as a jealous guy, and is often correct when speaking circumspectively about these sorts of things.

Personally, I don’t understand all of this Brian Jones adoration, but that’s probably because, being in my 30’s, I’ve been exposed to this music from the vantage point of hindsight. I adore the Stones, but the Jones era has always felt embryonic to me, enjoyable because I already knew what came next.

 

Brian Jones = jack of all trades, master of none

I’m sorry, but I’m not terrible impressed that Brian could pick up any instrument and come up with some simple parts. Most musically talented people could do the same.

 

Yes, this is dead on. Jones obviously had some natural musical talent. But, he did not seem to have the dedication required to really learn any instrument particularly well.

 

The Jones era is a lot of the Stones trying to find their feet in a fast-changing world, much like the Beatles at the same time. And as with the Beatles, sometimes the Stones are reacting and sometimes pushing the envelope. As you spend more time over many years listening to the Stones, I expect your appreciation of the Stones' experimental phase may deepen. Mine certainly did. Brian is basically a very singular figure in 60's rock music - iconic, an electric personality, decadent, foolish, talented, resourceful, creative and visionary. He's never been a virtuoso at any instrument, so it's not as easy to instantly appreciate him as it is someone like Hendrix or Clapton. But if the Stones had some other standard 60's rhythm guitarist, they never would have had the rich palette of eccentric sounds as they had with Brian. As far as I'm concerned, that stands absolute no matter how many people remain unimpressed at his abilities.

 

Well, any real musician knows, based on
hearing the recordings, just what Brian's
strengths and limitations were. That does
not prevent some of us from enjoying or
appreciating his contributions to the Rolling
Stones. As for Keith, well - tbh, he's not a great
musician either. Perhaps he thinks he is, idk.
For me, they never topped what they put to wax
between 1962 and 1968 - not in terms of
songwriting or studio recording and production.
They were the archetypal 60s R&B based
garage-rock progenitors and when they fired
Brian and Mick and Keith got it in their head
that they were all that and a bag of smack, it
was gone. It didn't take all of us fifty years to
see through their glorious smokescreen.

 

Completely disagree about Keith. He has a very distinctive guitar playing style that has been emulated by countless musicians.

Not to mention his most important skill: songwriting.