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The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Halloween_Jack, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    I dont see how the hobby is hurt by people having a different opinion, to the contrary I would say. It’s healthy to question things, especially in a world thats constantly trying to convince us to buy buy buy. They tell us their product is the latest and greatest but never show A/B comparisons, that would make things crystal clear but apparently that’s not a fair way of doing things.

    I’ve seen reviews where they’ve said a new power cable would make the 1200G sound better. Knowing what the power is being used for it defies all logic to me but I’m sure it hasn’t stopped many people from buying into it.
     
    csgreene, MikeJedi and patient_ot like this.
  2. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    The only thing that's really "hurt" by people questioning snake oil crap are the manufacturers and retailers of said snake oil crap. Oh, and let's not forget the rag industry, YouTube reviewers, etc. who ride that gravy train.
     
    keiron99, csgreene and Hardcore like this.
  3. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Questioning if something sounds better is totally fine. But saying that others who do hear something sound better after changing peripherals are wrong, is not fine.
     
    MikeJedi likes this.
  4. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    What I mean is that when people don't expect more than a "if I hear a difference, then it must be so..." validation, then our hobby is hurt. ..Thank god we don't set the bar so low for our pharmaceutical companies when prove efficacy and safety.

    Validity testing is needed to sort the imagined difference from real. And this how aerospace engineers think.

    Why don't we have this crazy obsession when it comes to HDMI cables? The reason is because it's very easy to set two identical TV's next to each other and show that the cheap (included) cable and an uber-expensive one provide the exact same quality image. ..It's easy to debunk. ..Just like aerospace, just like medical imaging, etc... ..Only w/ Audio does this persist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
    Slick Willie and patient_ot like this.
  5. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Digital cables and analog cables are entirely different beasts.
     
  6. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uruguay
    Well, i don't know any "digital" cable. They all transport electric current, so if ones are prone to discussion ... So the others.
     
    ODS123 likes this.
  7. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    They are no more "wrong" than are participants in a clinical trial who report symptom improvement after taking a placebo. The impact of expectation on what humans hear and feel is very very powerful. ..In audio we need to minimize it's influence.

    Unfortunately, the industry (and "experts" like audiophile mags/writers) has more or less gas-lighted us into believing that evidence-based science doesn't apply to this hobby. ..It's a free for all. You'll read things like, "If you hear a difference, it exists.." And "If you don't, consider yourself lucky to not have such demanding hearing!!" (self-aggrandizing nonsense).. Or, "Your system must not be sufficiently resolving." (ugh).

    None of these would pass muster in ANY other field of engineering.
     
    timzigs, Oelewapper and patient_ot like this.
  8. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    A digital cable is something you would use to transfer a digital signal, like an HDMI wire, digital coaxial, optical cable, etc. Digital cables transfer signals as a series of 0s and 1s. An analog cable, like RCA wires or phono cables, transfer the signal via alternating positive and negative voltage.

    I'm not sure if that's what you meant.
     
    formu_la likes this.
  9. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    So now it's just all placebo effect, eh? Weren't you also the person who once said all amplifiers sound the same?

    Why do we need to minimize it's influence? Some people enjoy and can hear improvement when changing cables. Should we take all their cables away and make them use stock because you can't hear a difference? I don't get why you're so against people trying (and liking) different cables. It has no effect on your life whatsoever. If you enjoy the stock cables, enjoy them. But stop telling everyone else that they are nuts if they think any other cables sounds different or better.

    Do you agree that there are different qualities of copper out there? Don't you think, perhaps, that maybe some cables use inferior copper and that it may have a detrimental effect on the sound? Or maybe they use too thin of a gauge?

    I'm also curious. How did you decide on what cartridge to use on your Technics if Technics never told you which one to use in the manual? Do you also think all cartridges sound the same?
     
  10. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Isn't this topic banned on this forum? It's gone on a bit long and it's veered pretty far off topic.
     
  11. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I'm happy to move on. ..I'll speak no more of it :)
     
  12. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    Thanks! To be clear, we have no rules against presenting results of DBTs, etc. The only thing we have a rule against is the objectivist/subjectivist debate about the superiority or inferiority of one method vs. the other. It seems to be right up there with religion and politics as far as ruining friendships and breaking families apart. :laugh:
     
  13. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uruguay
    I talk that bits as 0s and 1s only exists in software. It's a software model.

    In hardware (like cables) you only have a representation of the bits. As electrical current, light pulses, tiny dips in a cd, etc.

    That's what I mean. Bits are bits only in the model (software / mental representation). In the real thing it's anything but "bits".
     
  14. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    That's why audiophiles and engineers are not the same people :p
    But please don't turn this into another cable thread... they always end the same...
     
    MikeJedi likes this.
  15. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    Is that not a different arm.
     
  16. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    AFAIK, it's basically the same magnesium arm as the 1200G, except that it's 10" and has a bigger VTA ring.
     
  17. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    So, a different arm.
     
    bootbox likes this.
  18. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Yeah but I doubt that the additional 1” will make a big difference... ever so slightly less of a tracking error, that’s probably all.
    The stock headshell would definitely fit with it as good as it does with a 1200G arm.
     
  19. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    I would think so too, but haven't looked at a manuel to see if any specs are different.
    Just throwing out a possible reason why the shell from the others wasn't included.
     
    Oelewapper likes this.
  20. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    In general, the more expensive a turntable gets, the less accessories come with it.
    Just like our turntables didn’t come with a cartridge, while many midrange turntables do.
    I think it has something to do with that.
     
    Slick Willie likes this.
  21. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uruguay
    bigger arm means a little less tracking error, but also means more prone to vibrations ... i always see very good quality headshells in bigger arms.

    as always, there's no isolated parameter that goes to better sound, the project as a whole thing does.
     
  22. Joel Shapiro

    Joel Shapiro Forum Resident

    Back to the 1200: you can't get one anywhere in the States. Supply has been tight for months. The question is, why didn't Technics ramp up production of the GR in Japan instead of making a lesser table in Malaysia that, judging from its inventory levels, doesn't sell as well and clearly has been a disappointment?
     
  23. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    That doesn’t make any sense.
     
  24. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Most likely because Japan had very strict quarantine rules during the pandemic which probably decreased production immensely.
     
    Big Blue and patient_ot like this.
  25. Claude M

    Claude M Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bergen County NJ
    I can tell you pre-virus I looked for a used GR for about 2 years and each time one came up it was snatched up faster than I can move and usually went for close to MSRP anyway. Then when I gave up on the idea of buying used, my timing was always terrible trying to buy new. Finally got on the "notify me when available" (B&H here in NYC) list and bought it minutes after I received the email. So from first hand experience, they went fast, people that own them hold on to them. It's a wonderful turntable, really is.
     
    jusbe, Big Blue, Gabe Walters and 5 others like this.

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