The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Halloween_Jack, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    Nice, can you get a link to it? ....or it didn't happen..... :)
     
  2. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    I know I am so sorry I can't find it lol. I swear such a thing exists, technics had posted it right when the 1500C was released, it was part of their advertising campaign and they were showing off the new models and the Malaysian plants. It could have been off of their twitter feed, I am getting old that is for sure :)
     
    Slick Willie likes this.
  3. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    Does anyone remember the video they made for the original 1200GAE launch? It was a really long feature on how they had to find the old engineers to get help with the arm design and had a lot of footage from the factory. It was really good but I can’t find it anymore.
     
  4. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    Was it not on the Technics site?
     
    Hardcore likes this.
  5. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    Very possibly. I just went on the site and there’s a link to a video there but it’s set to private now.
     
    Slick Willie likes this.
  6. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    I travel to the Netherlands 1 time per year and let me say that the language it's extremely difficult (please, do not get angry with me, it's not personal / whatever) ... at least for latin root languages natives :laugh:
    French / Italian / Spanish / Portuguese / Romanian ... all those languages have a latin root in common (romance languages) and are very easy to "switch" between them.
     
  7. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    It will be interesting to see how they now downplay the importance of building it in Japan when that was something they played up during the launch of the 1200GAE. Lol :) Still, it was just marketing then...as it is now. They'll find a way to put a positive spin on the move now. And I'm fine with it. ..Because I never attached too much importance to where it was built anyway. ..I just recall being extremely impressed when I saw a GR at a dealer.

    The fact remains that there is nothing so precious about these appliances (that is really what they are) that they can't be accurately produced at another facility. The craftsmen who wire the tonearms are not super-humans; they'll find equally talented and trainable people in Malaysia and will quite likely employ current technicians to train them.

    And I do believe the factory in Malaysia will at minimum be the equal of the one they're closing - but more likely even better.

    I think people have this mental image that these were built in a high-tech facility in Japan but will now be built in a dirt-floored quonset hut in Malaysia. Not so. They build high-tech stuff in Malaysia just like pretty much everywhere.
     
    aunitedlemon and Hardcore like this.
  8. schwaggy

    schwaggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    There's this
     
  9. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Yep, almost all Intel CPUs are made in Malaysia. Those are generally the most - or second most - complicated chips in Intel PCs (in gaming PCs, the GPU is the most complicated chip).
     
  10. schwaggy

    schwaggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Stop posting about Apple's software. This is about hardware. The turntables do not run on an OS or read/write to or from a database. This is a horrible comparison. But since some of you are hell-bent on comparing Chinese-made "junk", when is the last time you had an Apple product (hardware) that had rough edges, misaligned cases, or other visually or mechanically defective products out of the box?
     
  11. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    @schwaggy

    Thanks for the video - very cool! ..But honestly, I see nothing going on in the video that is any more complicated than what goes on in any factory building sophisticated devices. And some of the shots give view of what appears to be a rather cramped production floor. Plus, they said they can only build 30 motors/ day! ..Presumably that's for all G, and GR models! That's not a lot!

    ..So maybe they moved to where they can (affordably) find or build a much larger factory. ..I'm sure they'll be moving all the tooling, which is to be expected.
     
  12. brucej4

    brucej4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast, USA
    Apologies if this was already mentioned, but most Sony products that I have bought over the past 10+ years, including three decent Blu-Ray/SACD players, some good mid-price earbuds, and two very good Hi-Res Walkman players, were made in Malaysia. All have been good quality, and all of them still work. Only the (relatively few) Chinese-made Sony products are low-end.
     
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  13. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Yes software has nothing to do with products assembled in China; I made that quite clear in an earlier post.
    IMO, even though it has its shortcomings, Apple operating systems are fairly robust compared to other operating systems.
    The post you quoted was simply a reply about something else... I’m sorry for wandering off topic...

    So, back to hardware issues.
    There’s a lot to be said about Apple hardware...
    Staingate, flexcables that break by opening the screen a few times, butterfly keyboard issues, flexing PCBs that develop micro cracks inside, charging chips that burn out for no apparent reason... those are just some examples from the top of my mind, but you can find many more if you take a little effort to do a small bit of research.
    And no, those aren’t issues caused by user error.

    The reason most people believe it’s good hardware is because they’ve never even opened more than 10 different Apple devices or have a very limited knowledge in electronics or both.


    Not to mention all the exploitation involved in the manufacture of the hardware... something that’s much, much less likely to occur in a country like Japan.
    At least they stopped outsourcing to India after the slave labour revolt occurred.
     
  14. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    AFAIK, the factory is the same building that was used for production of the 1200s before they shut down in 2010... back then, production was very low as the market had become saturated and demand was low.
    The newly released 1200s probably sell a lot better, not just because of the higher performance, but also because of the vinyl revival.

    So I also think that’s their main reason for moving to Malaysia.
     
    ODS123 likes this.
  15. adhoc

    adhoc Gentlemen Prefer Stereo

    I think it's a mistake. Pure cost cutting by the bean counters. Comparing the heavily automated production/testing of CPUs with something that is at least partly handmade is not a valid comparison IMO.

    Your average floor electronics factory worker in Malaysia is someone with a grade school education, or increasingly now an even more poorly educated migrant. The brightest in Malaysia frequently flee the country for Singapore, Australia, or elsewhere. There is a "reverse" affirmative action policy in place nationwide where the largest ethno-religious group has quotas for entry into higher education and business.

    This is a difficult situation to instil a culture of attention to detail. Now contrast this to Japan.

    Put it this way - IMO the quality can only suffer with a move to Malaysia. There is no potential upside here. Dollars to doughnuts the move is not going to reduce prices for the consumer.

    I say this as someone who has spent decades in the region.
     
    Big Blue, Hardcore, recstar24 and 4 others like this.
  16. Pali Gap

    Pali Gap Whiskey, mystics and men

    Location:
    Under the bridge
    That's even more impressive considering Apple ships approx 20 million Macs per year.
     
  17. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    So explain why the Technics gear currently made in Malaysia gets high marks for quality? And, with no disrespect intended, your having spent decades in the region doesn't mean your opinion is necessarily correct. ...I'm betting there is a range of opinions from people who actually LIVE in Malaysia.

    I had an NAD 375bee that was made in Malaysia and it was as well built as my 1210GAE. So how was that accomplished?

    And of course they're not going to pass on any cost savings to consumers... When have you ever seen that? ..But it may be how they're able to not raise prices despite rising costs in Japan.

    The GR, and G are absolute steals in their respective price categories in terms of measured performance (they are peerless) AND in terms of the build quality. So no need to reduce prices.

    Added: And while I lament the plight of any human who is not afforded the opportunity to be fully educated, I do not conflate education with intelligence. You can lack a college (or even high school) education and still be intelligent.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  18. Pali Gap

    Pali Gap Whiskey, mystics and men

    Location:
    Under the bridge
    When would you ever expect a country's 'brightest' to be working in a manufacturing factory at ground level?
     
  19. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    The GR and G MSRP has risen already.
    The G went from €3500/$4000 to €4000/$4500 about 6 to 8 months ago.
    That should be at least - if not more than - sufficient IMO.

    Edit:
    Looks like that was last year:
    Technics announce price rises coming April 1st
    Time flies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
    ODS123 likes this.
  20. adhoc

    adhoc Gentlemen Prefer Stereo

    I do not. That point was included to paint a more complete picture of the broad social currents in the background. It is a more uphill battle to maintain quality in Malaysia than Japan, which I thought would be a self-evident point.

    If McIntosh relocated USA manufacturing to Peru, would you expect the quality to be 1. easier to maintain, or 2. more difficult to maintain?

    Oh I'm sure they can make "quality equipment" in Malaysia. The issue for me is - better quality than Japan? My hypothesis is no.

    And yes - I lived in Malaysia. Don't get me wrong, the country as a whole has taken huge leaps forward in the last few decades. There are pockets which are nearly world class. But you move manufacturing to Malaysia for cost reasons, not (never?) quality reasons.

    Does an amplifier rely on the interaction between multiple hand-assembled close-tolerance moving parts to work? Of course not. Come on, apples and oranges here.

    You have so successfully drunk the Kool Aid that you are arguing for a company to raise prices on you, and ...

    ... they have obliged, while cutting their costs and possibly quality too.

    I reiterate, this decision by Technics IMO is woeful.
     
    formu_la likes this.
  21. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I don't think so... Take a look at these two $4000 turntables. A disassembled Technics 1210GAE on the right and a SOTA Sapphire (more than $4k, actually) on the left. You tell me which should be more expensive. And I'm not asking Technics to raise prices, but merely pointing out that even with prices raised, they're the best deck for the money. IMHO.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  22. MikeJedi

    MikeJedi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    There has not been a 100 percent confirmation yet. Ok can we go back to talking about the tables and the sound ? :)
     
  23. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Two dealers - one of which is the largest Technics TT seller in the US - have confirmed it. ..You shouldn't expect a nationally broadcast TV news conference from Technics. There won't be one. They're not apt to even issue a statement to consumers about this. ...Why would they? ..They'll tell the dealers and that's about it. ..Oh, and change the verbiage on their website about "Japanese craftsmen"...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  24. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Are you suggesting Malaysian's lack the hand-eye coordination or dexterity of the Japanese? Are you saying they are not as trainable or as determined to do good work??

    I'm sorry but I'm just not seeing why this move to Malaysia necessarily portends a drop in quality. I think we'll have to wait and see.
     
  25. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Fair point.
    To me, made in Japan is more of an “assurance” for quality than quality itself.
    A Malaysian made turntable might be just as good, it might be less... it’s more of a gamble.
    Since these are higher end products compared to the average mass market midrange stuff the average Joe has, I think it’s reasonable to assume the quality would be maintained.
    A niche market would notice quality degradation way too easily for them to get away with that.
    But better...? Unlikely.
    The turntables made in Japan have become the benchmark, now that so many have been sold, tested and reviewed already.
    But in the end, only time will tell.
    If they’re actually worse, we’ll probably know not too long after they hit the market.
    News spreads quickly in a niche community, especially bad news.
     

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