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The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Halloween_Jack, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Frankly just stop this insistence that everything sounds about the same. It's clear to anyone with a bit of experience with different levels of kit there are differences. You can close your ears and ignore it but difference are there. You either have developed a psychological condition that filters out difference or you don't know what to listen for or just don't care about the finer subtleties in music reproduction. Honestly I don't know, but unless there is something radically limiting the resolving abilities of your system differences between a GR and G should be clear to you. There are examples in this thread and others where the improvements the G made have been rather clearly described. If you can't hear it please stop insisting the rest of us imagine it or insist they are the same. They aren't. There are so many material differences in the construction and materials in the G that sound differences are inevitable. Notably in the areas of isolation and vibration elimination as well as the drive system Technics developed the GR as a more affordable model with some compromises, not a model of equal performance for less money. That would not make commercial sense in any case. Comparing real differences in different components rather than the sort of accessories that qualify as snake oil cannot be insultingly described as placebo effect. I think you've made your point. Obviously you also think all CD players, speakers and amplifiers sound the same. So you upgraded your gear just for the better looks and finish?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    recstar24, Erocka2000 and Randoms like this.
  2. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    This.

    I have no problem with people not needing a better turntable than the SL-1200GR, it is after all a good turntable, however Technics engineered the G to be better. Many may wish it isn't better, but unfortunately for people who hear and want the very obvious musical improvements, it is.

    We can argue all day long over the worth and percentage of the improvements, but from a purely sonic point of view...
     
    Erocka2000 likes this.
  3. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Never said all speakers sound the same. My hearing is excellent and I have a keen a sense for new musical nuance honed from a lifelong love affair with live and recorded music. But yes, I do believe that modern day CD players, DACs, and amplifiers that are engineered to be linear (notable exception would be SET tube amps) Will be indistinguishable from each other to listeners who cannot see what they are hearing.

    as I’ve said numerous times I do think turntables sound different but mostly because of platter speed accuracy, Which is solved at a far lower price point in the $4K G/GAE.

    And the fact that manufacturers offer more expensive gear does not mean that gear sounds better, it means there is a market for it. Go to a McIntosh dealer And see if you can find one sales person who will agree to blindly identify Macs priciest amplifier from there least (driving same speakers to the same SPL - and non-clipping). You won’t find one. Indeed, as a poster in another forum who worked at McIntosh pointed out… No one at the company can hear a difference either.
     
    Sterling1 likes this.
  4. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    So, if you have two turntables that have the exact same speed accuracy and one has a brass platter and one has a platter made of graham crackers, according to you, they will sound the same because speed is the only you think affects sound. Got it. I love how in the same post you say you have excellent hearing and a keen sense for new musical nuance, yet believe speed is the only thing that has an impact on the sound.

    Also, lol, that you think all CD players and DACs sound the same.
     
    jusbe likes this.
  5. Pali Gap

    Pali Gap 'Why did you throw the Jack of Hea-arts awayyy?'

    Location:
    Bermuda
    You have a knack for childishly simplifying people's opinions to suit your condescending posts lol.
     
    todd141, nomad709, RobbieBear and 3 others like this.
  6. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    I'm not here to tell anyone you're wrong, but can you please stop attacking the straw man you've built out of ODS123's posts? Just take a step back and read what he's actually saying: he doesn't believe listeners could tell a difference among Technics turntable models in a blinded test. He also doesn't believe that linear amplifiers sound different when driven to the same SPL, non-clipping. Respond to those points. It isn't about materials science or graham crackers.
     
    todd141, nomad709, RobbieBear and 5 others like this.
  7. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    Amen to that, no need for all this animosity.
     
    Sterling1, punkmusick and ODS123 like this.
  8. ODS123

    ODS123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    A gross oversimplification of what I am saying. To be clear, I believe the most challanging limiting factors with analog vinyl playback these days are platter speed, rumble and the groove noise itself. The other challenges associated with this form of playback were largely solved long ago. For example, low friction tone arms that hold and maintain proper orientation of the cartridge, platters that do not ring/resonate. These and the aforementioned challenges are now at a point that additional improvements may be measurable, but not necessarily discernible to the human ear. That does not mean manufacturers won’t continue to achieve and tout measurable improvements. Or, raise material and build quality - ie., offer more expensive models - to enhance pride of ownership, joy of use… IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    Sterling1 likes this.
  9. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Why do you keep this up ? Any proper hi-fi TT has negligible rumble and has done for years. Last time I heard rumble being a problem was with idler drives and that can be cured with a mass loaded plinth. Speed isn't even much of an issue in most cases and can be improved with electronic speed controls with belt drives. Groove noise has a lot to do with cartridge stylus profile but also damping and isolation. Exactly where the G is better than the GR. Build quality is not just to enhance pride of ownership unless you get into the area of superfluous over engineering in some uber expensive decks.
     
  10. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Woah... almost looks like this thread has turned into a toxic cable thread... :sigh:
     
  11. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Yeah if there is one component where the engineering and design can truly have such a great impact and influence on the actual sound of the thing, it’s got to be a turntable.
     
    Sterling1, Big Blue and Ingenieur like this.
  12. Robert Godridge

    Robert Godridge Forum Resident

    I could be wrong and will ask a friend who was a BBC engineer in the 70s and 80s, but I think they chose the sp10 because it was easy to modify to play at uncommon speeds. That is definitely the reason they used arrards and Lencos before it.
     
    Pali Gap likes this.
  13. Robert Godridge

    Robert Godridge Forum Resident

     
  14. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    What the hey - I sprung for one (damper) on Thursday. I’m using a Hana SL currently and have been lukewarm on the sound (just get get it right - but I know it’s not the cart, it’s either me or the set up).

    I know the tone arm on the Technics tables have been criticized on here and in other places...but I really like the table and would prefer to modify than move on.
     
    Big Blue and recstar24 like this.
  15. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    Criticism of the Technics tonearms is unjustified in my opinion. I see zero need for the damper that some of you have bought. Not there might not be some slight improvement just not enough to consider adding something with an open tray of goo that will get a fair bit of dust in it over time or a bug, cover or not. I don't seem to have resonance, tracking, or cuing issues with my GR.
     
    Sterling1 likes this.
  16. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    I mean...I do listen to The Beatles an awful lot. :righton:

    I appreciate your opinion, just having a little fun.
     
  17. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    The Beatles, huh? Weren't they like the Oneders? You know, a couple decent songs but forgotten long ago? Not sure if I've heard any of the music before...
    :hide:
     
    AppleCorp3 likes this.
  18. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    Im not surprised they don’t ring a bell. They’re not discussed in this forum at all.
     
    Big Blue and csgreene like this.
  19. JohnQVD

    JohnQVD is adjusting to having a fully manual turntable

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Yes. I’m currently using the Cambridge Duo. When I initially realized the problem by downloading the service manual and checking the schematic, I hooked up the Schiit Mani that I originally bought for my office before we started working from home last year.
    At some point when I get a test record with a sweep on it, I want to run all my cartridges through all the preamps I have. I’ll do another set of silent tracks for this when I have the recording gear hooked up. I don’t think I saved the ones I did a few weeks ago.
     
  20. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    You don't need any test record to check the resonant frequency, it's there all the time, you can see it in the frequency spectrum unless it is highly damped or filtered out, just need a recording while it is playing. In fact, all you really need to do is lower the stylus to a record while recording, the resonant frequency will show as the tonearm/cartridge settles.
     
    patient_ot and punkmusick like this.
  21. JohnQVD

    JohnQVD is adjusting to having a fully manual turntable

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    I did that a couple of weeks ago using a silent track and no phono pre. I believe my results are posted somewhere in this long thread. I don’t think I kept the files, though. So I can’t post the files. I’m not going to drag the recording gear back downstairs until I get a test record so I can run some frequency sweeps. But at that time, I will happily record silence again if people are interested.
     
    Davey likes this.
  22. willied

    willied Forum Resident

    I have a question about Dynavector KARAT 17DX MC Cartridge.
    Is this cartridge suitable for technics sl-1200gr tonearm and how many grams for the headshell, thanks.
     
  23. They're fine with Ortofon SPUs.
    Your Dynavector is a lightweight in comparison.
     
    willied likes this.
  24. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur I love to travel, but I hate to arrive.

    Location:
    PA
    Headshell 7.6 gm per manual
    Cartridge weighs 11 gm
    Should work w/o aux wt (range 5.6 to 12)

    As far as musically compatibility?
    Personal taste

    looking at a few resonance calculators it should be technically ok, but sound?
    No idea

    Manual
    https://www.technics.com/support/downloads/data/operating-instructions/SL-1200GR_TQBM0053_EB_eng.pdf
     
    willied likes this.
  25. dreamingtree1855

    dreamingtree1855 Filthy vinyl spinning hipster millennial

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Yesterday I received a Jelco HS-25 for use on my SL-1200gr with the Audio Technica PTG33/ii. I'll admit I totally bought this one because it looked cool. I mounted and aligned it yesterday and noticed it's considerably heavier than stock, requiring the auxiliary tonearm weight. To me it sounds good but I'll admit I know absolutely nothing about compliance and resonance even after some googling, and I can't tell what difference it made besides looking sweet. So my question is... is this considered better than the stock headshell? Is there some audiophile rule of thumb that says this is better? Worse? Just looking for some guidance since switching the headshell and aligning the cart takes me so long I can't "remember" the difference from the stock headshell and I want to make sure I didn't violate some rule with the combo and maybe I should switch back. Any advice is appreciated.
     
    punkmusick likes this.

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