Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Halloween_Jack, Aug 1, 2018.
The butthurt is starting to run strong.
What you call 'butthurt' (do you have physical experience? I don't) others may call fact.
The whole video was a sales pitch omitting the opposing view.
And he BOUGHT a Technics.
So how much credence can be placed on his 'opinion'?
I have no issue with him shilling for $.
No one said you did.
But I'm not sure he preferred it. He liked some things, intangible ones. So there is no way to determine if they are real or imaginary (as in conjured up in his mind).
If anything can be described quantitatively it is a TT. Speed accuracy and fluctuation.
With a properly selected and set-up cartridge for a given TT these will describe which is 'better' objectively.
He did not mention these for obvious reasons.
Yes that’s kinda strange... plenty audiophiles won’t even bother with a bonded elliptical.
His opinion seems genuine when it comes to the tactile aspects of both turntables.
But when it comes to the sound, I’m not so sure... unless there’s something actually wrong with a turntable, a nude Shibata will always sound better than a bonded elliptical if it’s based on the same cartridge.
Why is such a silly review being discussed here?
If anyone expects a reviewer to give a negative review, especially on the web with paid sponsors, is very naive. If he said it was no good I'm not sure he would be on Projects list any longer.
He did talk a lot about the switch, lol.
But he never said anything definitive.
It was all wishy washy drone.
Any difference heard is subjective.
It was rather pointless.
One of the more amusing, to me, were his comments on the VTA adjust.
Quite obvious he hasn't used them.
If I recall, Darko was really positive about the 1500c outside of the cueing lever being a bit flimsy feeling (Common complaint).
So much misinformation. He can like whatever he wants (or he can say what he likes, perhaps more accurately), but one should really question these kind of reviews. For example, why would platter damping be more important on a direct drive? There’s no evidence to support that contention.
I would advise anyone in the market to go try both of these turntables and then make a decision.
... and the new 1200s have platter damping ... that's one of the differences with the older 1200s models.
What it seems really hard to swallow is that a project pickit cartridge can sound better (don't talk about different ... i mean better) than an ortofon black with 6x the price ... i can understand that he can subjectively find the project more appealing, but surely the difference in sound quality / refinement / detail goes to the 1200gr/black.
And then he says that the 1200gr/ortofon sounded more refined, but the "vitality" in the project combo is what he liked. It's totally meaningless ... you can apply the same to a pair of Elac debut vs B&W Diamond 800s.
Well, useless review to audiophiles ... very good review to Project sales ... after all i need to recognize that the debut pro have many items i always claim from budget tts (bad isolation / feets, no vta, no azimuth, no easy speed change, etc). Obviously the own Project wow & flutter / noise measurements are far worst than the Technics, but it seems a really decent entry level tt.
The SL-1200MK2 also has neoprene rubber on the back of the platter.
The restored MK2s from SkyFi Audio look interesting Technics Custom SL-1200MK2 Audiophile Turntable - Made to Order
Un-shielded high capacitance wire, and longer for your convenience.
I'll tell you what he really likes: himself.
He does come across as affected and stagy
A lot of but little information
I saw Kevin from KAB posted a comment regarding the tonearm wiring. Maybe Darko will let Kevin re-wire the arm on his SL-1210GR and Darko can do a review of that!
I had a MK2 many, many years ago ... and i though that rubber was added by the previous owner ... as many owners of other Technics tts made in 80s (sl-Qs ... Etc).
Here's a dumb question. Hiw do you attach the hinges to the dust cover? Are you supposed to unscrew the pieces on the hinges and tighten to the dust cover?
I'm in the market for a new cart for my 1200GR. I was looking at a 2M Black; which other carts would you prefer on the 1200GR?
Well there are doubtless countless other people here better suited to answer that question i.e. those that also own a 1200GR but seeing as you asked me...
The first thing to say is that I wasn't suggesting the 2M Black isn't a good cart - lots of people have it and speak very highly of it and I'm sure that if you got one you'd most likely think it was great.
In terms of looking at alternatives, I suppose it partly depends on your tastes and 'flexibility' by which I mean whether you're set on getting MM or open to the idea of MC too?
Personally I am a big of Audio-Technica carts as I think they offer tremendous value for money. My most costly cart is an AT33PTG/ii (MC) and I've found it be superb. It's roughly the same price as the 2M Black and I think it would work well on the 1200GR's arm but not everyone is keen on MC carts and many argue that you need to buy something considerably more expensive than the AT33PTG/ii to properly see what MC can do and they could well be right. The model up from the PTG is the AT33SA which has a shibata stylus like the 2M Black: people also speak very highly of this cart and say it's that little bit better albeit a reasonable amount more expensive.
If you wanted to stick with MM and a shibata stylus then Audio-Technica has the VM750SH which I've read is superb and a bit cheaper than any of the aforementioned carts. Their TOTL MM is the VM760SLC which to be honest, I don't think I've ever read a review nor heard anyone mention it but I'd imagine it would be worthy of consideration.
However, as much as I'm a fan of theirs, life doesn't begin and end with Audio-Technica! Lots of people speak very highly of the Nagaoka MP-500, their TOTL model. This would also likely work well on a lower-medium mass arm like that on the 1200GR. Beyond this, it might be worth considering Goldring and Hana too.
A couple of quick points by way of a footnote:
- The references I've made to price are based on what I can see with UK dealers. Your profile states you're in Las Vegas, USA in which case these carts could be priced quite differently relative to each other e.g. you may pay more for Ortofon/ Goldring than in Europe but you may pay less for Audio-Technica, Nagaoka, Hana etc. This obviously changes the value proposition for you.
- If you've not had MC before, don't be put off my some of the things people say. It is true to say that you need a better phono stage in no small part due to the extra gain they need, but I don't believe you need to have something super-fancy. I have used my MC carts with both a decent internal stage of a Yamaha A-S1100 and currently with a very modest Pro-ject Phono Box S2 (long story, don't ask) and I've been pleased with the results. The other difference with MC is obviously that you don't change the stylus: when it's worn it's done BUT all the manufacturers of MC carts have a trade-in scheme which can be (certainly in the case of AT) pretty favourable. Admittedly it's less convenient than buying a new stylus and it does kind of tie you into that manufacturer BUT can work out cheaper than buying a new stylus for a MM cart.
With Darko admitting incompetence to mount a cart I wonder if he has the knowledge of need to adjust the cart VTA on his SL-1210GR to extract the best tone from the 2M Black?
Well to be fair to him (and no, I'm not his publicist ) I don't remember him saying he was incompetence (although it was a while ago that I saw that video so you could be right on that) but I thought it was more about confidence in doing it i.e. running the risk of ballsing up the cart?
In any case I'm pretty sure he got Frank Schroeder the tonearm designer to set it up for him. And if you're in a position to be able to get people like that to set up a cart for you, why wouldn't you? I know I wouldn't! I think I've set my carts up pretty well (especially since getting the jig) but boy it's a right rigmarole to get it spot-on!
Wonder why the professional who mounted the cart chose to fit the cart to a high mass Zupreme headshell instead of the stock headshell?
The dealer I purchased my table from suggested a heavier shell with the 2M black. I found it darkened the presentation, more bottom end but not as lively.
Separate names with a comma.