The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Halloween_Jack, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The dynamic compliance is 7cu at 100 Hz, which I believe puts it at somewhere between 10cu and 14cu at 10 Hz, right? Or am I doing that math wrong?

    Using the vinylengine calculator, I am seeing the low end of that cu range hit 12 Hz resonant frequency for the 6-7g cartridge mass. It’s possible I misunderstand AT’s compliance specs.
     
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  2. Davey

    Davey NP: CLARAGUILAR ~ Figura (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I don't know which cart you have, the AT-VM95ML in your profile specs at 10cu @ 100Hz, and AT carts are typically double that for calculating resonance, but who knows without measuring ... AT-VM95ML - VM95 series Microlinear stereo cartridge | Audio-Technica...

    Static Compliance 20 x 10 – 6 cm / dyne
    Dynamic Compliance 10 x 10 – 6 cm / dyne (100 Hz)
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  3. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    You know what, I was remembering the spec for the EN stylus, which I also have, not realizing it was higher for the ML. Oops.

    Nevermind, looks like I’d be fine match-wise. Thanks for straightening me out!
     
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  4. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    This is because it uses a switch mode PS. I think this universal voltage capability has made them popular with manufacturers, but in most cases I think best SQ requires a good linear PS.
     
  5. The Dragon

    The Dragon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, AL
    Rediculous.
     
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  6. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    I work for an audio company and the change to switch mode power supplies was actually driven by the increasing worldwide energy efficiency requirements and not because of the autoranging ability of SMPS's. The autoranging function of the SMPS is just a bonus of the design.

    As far as SQ being better with Linear power supplies that is not entirely true as the electronics do not care what is supplying the voltage. What is true is that SMPS can introduce noise into the audio circuits due to the transistor switching frequency. That being said a properly designed and shielded SMPS should have little to no influence on SQ.
     
  7. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I beg to differ on linear PS. Try replacing a wall wart that comes with a phono pre with linear PS. Simply they sound better. My stage has 2. Upgrading from one to 2 as this design allows produced more improvement. I don't believe electronic firms are prevented from using linear supplies. Switch modes are lighter and smaller and can see their preference for non hi-fi applications. There are high grade switch modes in certain brands (i.e. Linn and Chord) but I don't find them engaging soundwise. In my view music producing devices do care about the type and size of PS used (subjectively).
     
  8. Andrew Littleboy

    Andrew Littleboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Walsham
    I would agree, SMPS have come a long way and well designed they can sound great, just like a poorly designed Linear PSU can be be bad a properly designed SMPS can sound superb, Linn, Chord all use SMPS now. It's just the cheap ones dump a lot of noise in the mains supply if not correctly implemented!
     
  9. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    But how does that observation translate to the power supply to an SL-1200's motor? Noise at that stage might affect speed stability or accuracy, but that stuff is being controlled later in the circuit. It's not the same application as a phono pre.
     
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  10. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    Being an Electrical Engineer and knowing something about how these things work I don't happen to agree with you but, you certainly have a right to your opinion with the SQ part of the discussion as this is subjective.

    Regarding your other point, the reason companies are moving on from linear power supplies is because the International Energy Efficiency Regulations are driving this requirement not convenience. Linear power supplies are notoriously inefficient especially in standby when the product is not drawing any appreciable power. SMPS, on the other hand, are very efficient in standby by design and only consume power when it is demanded by the product they are powering. This makes it much easier to design a SMPS power supply to consume very low power in standby mode that the Regulations demand. The downside of a SMPS is they can generate a lot of RF noise, in the kHz frequency range generally, due to the switching nature of their design, and care must be taken in the circuit design and shielding to prevent this switching noise from getting into the analog and digital circuits they are powering. All our audio products in the past used to be linear design but we were forced to change over to SMPS to meet International Energy efficiency regulations. You can believe what you want CR but I work in the Regulatory group in my company and this is a fact not conjecture on my part.
     
  11. Andrew Littleboy

    Andrew Littleboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Walsham
    Naim in the UK for example have are exempt from having to switch to SMPS, and I would imagine many other high end audio companies also. I don't know all the exact details but have been informed by a reliable source they applied to carry on using Linear PSU's and this was allowed as it was classed as a specialised product. Other countries may differ of course.
     
  12. Slimwhit33

    Slimwhit33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    N America
    Agree.. I'm hoping as I continue to read this thread that the dealer stood up eventually. If he didn't, the OP should find a much better dealer!
     
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  13. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    Could be AL as I do not work in the Energy Efficiency group here as I do Product Safety, but I do talk to the EE engineer often and will ask her about exemptions. I believe that some professional products that are mostly for pro installs, like amps, are exempt from the Energy Efficiency requirements so maybe that is how Naim got an exemption.

    If they have an exemption then Naim is likely going with an LPS design as they are virtually noiseless and can be cheaper to implement than a high power SMPS due the noise factor. LPS are very simple and most of the cost is in the transformer whereas SMPS can be very complex especially when trying to design them to control the RF and switching noise which can impact analog and digital circuits.
    Consumer audio electronics do need to mee the Energy efficiency regulations which is difficult with a LPS as they are always drawing power even with the end equipment in standby.

    Anyway sorry for going off topic and cluttering up the thread so I will drop the subject so we can get back to the topic at hand.
     
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  14. Phishman

    Phishman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upper Volta
    I heard there was a wait of a couple of months on new orders for the 1200G. Anybody know if this is true?
     
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  15. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    It would not be surprising, if true, since these are hand made and since the GRs recently had a pretty long backlog.
     
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  16. Phishman

    Phishman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upper Volta
    I'm getting a GAE (had to pay a hefty premium) and a Windfeld Ti cart. Replacing my Prime/Quintet Black. Should be interesting.....
     
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  17. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    :cool: Cool

    Curious how much premium? You’re among friends!
     
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  18. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    OK, I think I’ve found, after a substantial amount of tinkering around over the past couple of days, including changing to the stock headshell, trying several VTA positions and mat combinations, changing back to the 10g Zupreme headshell and again trying various mat combinations, that my preference may in fact be... the Zupreme headshell, the stock Technics mat alone, and the VTA dial all the way down (it’s just a teeny tiny bit tail-up, but I have to look very closely to even tell that against the lines on the acrylic block I have). Go figure, this could have just been plug-and-play for me. Haha. Well, at least I know I’ve tried the other possibilities.

    I did order one of those $10 delrin VTA spacer kits, which I still may use to tinker some more. It’s possible what I am really preferring is the coupling of the single mat and that the VTA could still be dialed in better. But I think I’m close enough for a couple of days, at least.

    I am loving how easy this turntable makes it to try all of these adjustments.
     
  19. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    Ha! Sometimes it can be too EZ!
    I find it better, for me at least, to make a change and then live with it for awhile as I work through my collection, too many changes too quickly can cause confusion and doubt.
    No worries though as you still have what you need if doubts spring up again.
     
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  20. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    That was my intention, but things just sounded leaner and brighter with the stock headshell no matter what I did with the VTA and VTF, and I wasn’t really feeling like living with it. I’m sure I’ll experiment again, but I think this is my setup to live with for a while to get a baseline, since it sounds the best to me right now.
     
  21. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    I understand.
    I was really enjoying the 2m Black with heavier shell, a richer presentation for sure.
    It was when I switched back to my 2M Blue on the lighter shell I realized I was missing some detail/instrument separation and note decay/dynamics (amp needles also verified this).
    IMO, what was happening was the bass was becoming extended and covering up/overpowering other aspects of the presentation.
    But ya' gotta' go with what pleases you!
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  22. Phishman

    Phishman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upper Volta
    ‘Tis a beauty !

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  23. octavius

    octavius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    Very nice machine!!!
     
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  24. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    It's definitely not double. I measured it. More like somewhere between 11-15 cu @ 10 hz.
     
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  25. Davey

    Davey NP: CLARAGUILAR ~ Figura (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Good to know, a little surprising it's that low, but I probably should've paid more attention to that low static compliance, that's a big clue.
     

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