The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

The tool is fixed geometry and Baerwald is the lowest avg distortion and peak is not much higher than the best for that parameter. I have it and like it so I use it. I like the fact the cantilever is aligned to the suspension. imo, any are fine if done accurately.
A balancing act

 

Yeah, I noticed that your alignment tool is for the one geometry after I posted.
My old laminated tool has all the geometries of which I've mostly used Lofgren B and A (Baerwald) and I think I've used Stevenson before.
Since having the GR and realizing that the Technics geometry is basically Stevenson I do rely on the Technics geometry for that deck.

 

I had a 50/50 shot.

 

I've done some experimenting with geometry when changing carts (so not scientific as changing two things) on my 1200G, but last year when I installed my DV xx2 Mk2 I initially used my Mint Tractor which (I was told by Yip) uses the proprietary Technics geometry that's close to Stevenson. Ran it few hours and then tweaked it again, this time using the Baerwald option on the Dr Feickert protractor - I felt that, quite audibly, there was a SQ improvement across the board with the new geometry. I didn't change any other cart parameters (except to recalibrate the antiskate). I've about 150 hours on that cartridge now. I've not noticed that it struggles with IGD with LPs in my collection with minimal deadwax versus the Benz Micro Glider SL that I ran before for 400 hours on the Mint/Technics alignment.

 

Nice!
Can you elaborate on the difference in overhang?
I'm curious if it is further out or in.

 

Cart was about 1.5mm further out (Baerwald) and as expected, a degree or two more inward twist (stock headshell).

 

Good to know, I think I actually have 2 carts set up to Baerwald.
It actually makes sense to use Baerwald with a superior cart that can track better, the Technics/Stevenson has much less error/distortion at the inner area which would benefit lesser capable at tracking carts.

 

I think that is a little bit of an exaggeration, the Technics/Stevenson alignment really only starts to have an advantage inside of around 63mm, as you can see in the tracking error and distortion plots below, and even at 60mm, that advantage is still pretty small. But sure, if you have a lot of records cut that close to the label, best to use the alignment designed for that scenario. Most of mine aren't, so I generally use Baerwald ...

 

I've noticed on lp's with content close to the label it will break up at times, not often.
But very few of my lp's run that close.

 

Here's a ? For our experts
Is there a better alignment for a given stylus shape?
eg, an elliptical works better with x

 

I've been wonderin' this myself...

My reply earlier was touching on this, my thinking was that a microline could get away with a geometry that fvors the middle of the record or more of an average across the side, whereas the elliptical which is more tracking challenged could use the better orientation at the inner groove area.

 

I'm also dipping my toes into the MC world, and might share my experience. I'm still very early into the journey, so YMMV.

Not exactly an AT cart, but I have a Koetsu Urushi Vermillion on the way which will be used with a Ear MC4. The Vermillion will be mounted on an Orsonic AV 101B. Total headshell+cart weight including mounting hardware will be in the >25g range, so I need both counterweights (if you have a G/GAE there are 2 - the GR only comes with 1 smaller counterweight). There is a now OOP Technics set of counterweights which includes an ultra-heavy CW (SH-1200W-S) and there is a modern remake made by a Japanese company called Belldream that you can google.

Where I live there is unfortunately no opportunity to audition anything, but I did a lot of "research" and the Ear MC4 is pretty much universally liked, has superb FR specs (compared with, say, the Koetsu SUT), will give me pretty much options for just about all MCs out there including fantastic beasts like the SPUs, and is just a MC3 - it's well received predecessor SUT - with an additional tap (ie a "lineage").

Other options I looked at hard and only passed over due to getting an unbeatable deal on the MC4 (50% off MSRP, NIB with full warranty from a dealer) were the Fidelity Research FR-4 and Technics SH-305MC. Both have multiple taps, are reasonably priced on the 2nd hand market, have above average published specs, and are well reviewed subjectively. I should note also though that the Koetsu is very, very well received.

SUTs IMO are a "done" technology with not much changes over time except core material, and are essentially indestructible if put through normal use patterns. Modern SUTs seem to tend to skimp on shielding (which is expensive) - there are internal photos of the Phasemation and latest gen Koetsu SUT which are a little .

In contrast, the Technics transformer core is amorphous which is still the cutting edge material AFAIK, and is encased in a solid cast iron (I kid you not) case, which is then copper plated. The actual transformers still remain within mu-metal cans! A part of me still wants to pick one up.

 

It’s an interesting idea, but, to be honest, with my ML aligned to the Technics geometry, I don’t hear any problems that would make me want to mess with putting more effort into alignment than the simple, straight-forward process I’ve got down to about a 5 or 10 minute project (10 is if I have to start with nothing connected to anything, 5 if the cartridge is already on the headshell with leads in place).

I do wonder if the benefits ML provides for IGD remain true across the whole side, anyway? Like it’s tracking so well I’m just not noticing any distortion regardless of the angle errors?

 

No copper plating on my two copies.

 

Apologies, you are right - the example I saw (on another forum) had aftermarket copper foil added to the inside.

 

I assume Lofgren A = Baerwald?
Measured on my jig nulls ~ 66 and 121

looked at a sample of my lp's, average inside groove d from label.
Min ~15 mm rare
Average >20 mm, many >25 mm

 

I'd like to hear any experiences with this as well. I've mentioned it before but my Sumiko Moonstone elliptical sounds nice and I could be happy with it UNTIL it gets towards the inner grooves on some records (which my VM540ML handles with no issue). I'm using the Technics geometry for both but I'd happily switch to a different one for the Moonstone if it meant less/no IGD. It just seems silly to deal with IGD at all when an AT ML cart at around the same price or less will breeze through with no issues. For all we go through to get optimal sound, I can't bring myself to be OK with most of the side playing back accurately.

 

Yes

At what distance from the spindle are you having problems with distortion?

 

I'll let someone who has a better mental model of the whole system chime in but in my experience there is no alignment method that is going to make a (bonded?) elliptical track like a nude-mounteed ML/MR stylus due to pinch effect.

Funny tidbit about those Sumiko carts, ran into a blow-hard record shop clerk a couple of months ago that saw fit to "explain" hi-fi to me. He started by telling me I hadn't really heard vinyl till I heard it on a vintage Luxman table . I talked a little bit about what I use which didn't impress him much. These new Technics were of course "crap" — without him having ever heard them. When I mentioned the good value of the cheap AT's he proceeded to tell me they were also crap compared to Sumiko carts. I asked what he liked about Sumikos out of genuine curiosity and got this gem. Apparently they're great because they "last forever." He proceeded to tell me the Black Pearl on the store turntable had been in daily use for 4 years (!!) without replacement. He was playing a CD but later he did fire up the store setup which sounded about as horrible as you'd imagine, mistracking even at the edge of the disc. That thing probably wore out 3 months into its tenure and no one had noticed, makes me wonder how sensitive some listeners are to tracking.

 

I had a vintage Luxman table once, nice arm but the speed control was always drifting off, apparently this was a known problem having to do with a failing IC chip.
I got the table for 20$ and it came with a V-15 V, this was in the very late nineties and I was able to get a NOS stylus for it for $100.
Never had a Sumiko cartridge.

 

That doesn't inspire much confidence in his store....

 

I wonder about IGD. I used to hear it on my AT95E and Nag 110 but I don't hear it on my Sumiko Pearl...it is the OG one with the .2x.8 tip; I wonder if that makes a difference. Maybe I'm crazy or my hearing is changing. Never heard it on any of the ML or Shibata's I've had but then those cuts are supposed to elimiate it.

 

I’ll have to measure it this afternoon and report back - I know it could be just about anywhere in the last track on a few albums.

 

I would never buy used records there after that revelation, that’s for sure.

 

This may come in handy: Record ruler | AlignmentProtractor.com