The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Depends on what you define as its functionality.
Part of a more expensive turntable is the improved tactile experience over a cheaper one.
Like the feeling of a nicely smooth cueing mechanism, confidently clicking buttons and a rock solid plinth.
It’s something that contributes to the record playing experience and enjoyment, at least to some users.
In that way it does have its function.

 

We differ on that, but that is what makes the world go 'round.
I would expect better dampening, slower, less contact force, adjustability. 'feel' would be low on my list as long as it did not require 2 men and a boy to use it.

Function to me is the functional operation of the device performing its intented purpose. Not the perception of the operator. But that's just me. If it just plopped the stylus down, dropped it with gravitational force which required slowly lowering cuing to control the descent rate and it was 'wonky' and nonlinear, that imo would be an issue.
I did not buy it to derive a satisfaction of quality but to play records accuratly.
But that's just me. To each their own, all is good.

 

With 8,5 mm mat how much spindle is left to put a record on?

 

Next question - when you're adjusting azimuth, if you're using a DMM, are you using a bandpass filter?

 

of sorts
Rumble filter
I've done it with treble and bass tone controls all the way down. Turnover is 1000 Hz
Not much difference
I'm primarily interested in ch-ch balance not so much absolutes

Fluke 87V averaging function
Calibrated annually
Zero any offset; usually <1 mV

 

With a 200 gm lp ~5 mm (AP Time Out)
Eyeballing

measured with a rule
5 mm to tip
3 mm to radius

It is on an Oyaide concave mat. With the weight on and deflection a mm or two more?

 

It can affect ch-ch too though. An example 1kHz RMS with no filter -31/-28. Same tracks FFT value at 1kHz -37/-22.

 

I assume dB

What is adding so much energy to 1 channel and decreasing on the other.
I use a 20 sec average of both the inner outer tracks
It's all I got, lol, the headshell looks level with this cartridge.
A mono record with a flipped ch and summing switch is close to 0

 

If we assume V and adjust for the off ch/signal ch and assume the signal to be 1 (mine is typically within 0.5 dB).

V ratio
no filter
0.028
0.040
ch-ch ratio 1.4

filter FFT
0.014, 1/2x of no filter
0.079, 2x, filter added power?
ch-ch ratio 5.7

a shift of 400%

using a 200 mV basis
5.6 mV
8 mV

2.8 mV
15.8 mV


Can't wrap my noggin' around it...as usually
Both channels would be equally affected by lack of a filter?

 

Time to play tomorrow. My meter has a function basically THD/N based on the fundamental.

I just measured my home V
~124 dropped to 122.5 when the heat pump kicked on (may be using R heat too)
Varied 59.99 to 60.01 Hz
The percent of fundamental was 97.2% or ~3% other harmonics, noise, etc.

 

Noise can be different between the channels. This is the plot from my example files. I've not dug in to why the difference - the files were quick and dirty to verify EQ for the record (not done) and to add crosstalk plotting to the software.

 

I get the drift

R measured
L signal 20
R signal 200
-20 dB

L measured
R signal 20
L signal 200
-20 dB

You are saying the SN ratio in the off channel may be different

R measured may be 10/20, N ~ 10
L 15/20, N ~ 5

R
180 (less noise)
Signal 10
-25 dB

L
180
15
-21.6 dB

But if the off ch for each is similar in magnitude when measured as the signal and cross signal isn't it a fair assumption to say they offset for the most part? The THD is larger and should be similar for each channel mitigating some noise influence. It would seem N would be similar if aligned properly, AS is close, etc.

But what do I know?

 

Just measured a few things
L 198, 10.3V
R 193, 10.6 mV
Xtalk
L 25.5 dB
R 25.4
Bal 0.2

dead wax, using hi precision
Both ~ 4 mV

each signal
1000 +/- 0.2 Hz avg

fundamental
L ~ 98.2% @ 198 .~ 3.6 mV
R ~ 97.8%, garbage based on 193 mV ~ 4.2 mV
close to the dead wax

subtracted from that channels off signal
L = 20 log 6.7/194 = -29.2 dB
R = 20 log 6.4/189 = -29.4 dB

this is out of the phono amp which adds a little pollution/dilution lol

 

that is extremely nice, I am looking hard at one, thanks for posting the info.
those feet look good too- how is the isolation?
edit- just noticed the new cartridge- how do you like ?

 

using a vibration app
with music playing the plinth is quieter than on the credenza with no music. But both are so low as imo to be moot.
x, y, z
Peak 0.002x g range
RMS 0.0006x g range


Love the cartridge, best I've heard but my experience is limited.

On plinth with music


Credenza no music

 

Just noticed, the AT33EV has been recently replaced by an AT33PTGii.
It is an excellent cartridge imo, sound is detailed with good transients (cymbals, kick drums, etc).
Very quiet.

 

But they're not.

 

???

according to the meter the rms V is equal.
That is no guarantee the S/N ratio is the same.
And the signal magnitude is within 0.2 dB, both ~98% 'pure' or 1000 Hz.

Not being contrary, just trying to grasp all that being true how the N could be much higher in one channel if both are equal in magnitude (~10 mV) and both signals only have ~2% 'debris' and are within 0.2 dB in magnitude. Both channels have similar silent groove noise ~4 mV.

It seems that out of the 10 mV ~ 4 is noise, so ~ 6 signal in this case.

Btw my DAC will digitize the phono amp output. Haven't looked at how to use the optical or coax output to make a file.

manual
AD converter function
Analog line inputs can be converted into digital signals in the S/PDIF format and output with coaxial or optical terminal. Signals can be output as analog signals by the internal DAC. (sampling frequency 96 kHz/24-bit)

 

That one can measure -37/-22 via FFT and -31/-28 via RMS should raise an eyebrow. For the left channel, sure, eliminating noise from the measurement improves it by 6dB. How does one explain the right channel being 6dB worse?

Your numbers are well and good but without an appropriate bandpass filter there's no way to know what you're measuring.

 

Received the Vinyl Source protractor.
Slightly better alignment to be parallel with the white line. The jig is 90% and the protractor helps get closer to 100%. Did not adjust overhang.



Really nice product overall with quick international shipping.

 

When the meter reads a constant frequency it gives the % of the reading that is the fundamental or symmetry.
So if reading 1000 Hz, 98%, 200 mV, 4 mV is other than the fundamental signal.
Basically THD/N
Or a bandpass of sorts.

AP test lp instructions
Azimuth Adjustment
Track 2 1kHz reference level Left channel only
Measure Right channel output.
Track 3 1kHz reference level Right channel only
Measure Left channel output.
The object is to sit the stylus exactly perpendicular in the groove.
Twist cartridge about its radial axis until the measurements from Track 2 and Track 3 are equal or very close to equal for both channels.



your FFT measurement
It resolves the signal into f components
And only used the fundamental to calculate?
It ignores the noise?

 

Ya I know how it works. What is the meter?

Yes FFT is at that f windowing, leakage etc applies but is consistent across all the measurements.

Listening to a gorgeous cart tracking at 0.75g. Never done that before.

 

Ok, wow, now you have me curious. I've currently got the stock 3mm mat with a 1mm 'anti static' mat that I received 10ish years ago from a site which I am drawing a blank on--I feel like they were/are based out of Nashville maybe? I don't think it was Herbie's Audio... Regardless, I also have an additional stock 3mm rubber mat from my previous TT. Is there any benefit from stacking two stock mats on one another? So 6 MM total plus the 1mm felt Anti Static Mat? Or am I just getting crazy at this point?

I'm typing all of this as I'm currently waiting on a Wooden Bull Cork and Leather mat that I read about on the Fremer 1200G review.

 

The only reason for it is to allow VTA to be set properly, once you start playing around with aftermarket headshells, using more height on the platter allows the tonearm to be set level.

You could shim the cartridge instead if needed, stacking mats does the same thing, you just have to do some trial and error to get the sound right per what's on the platter.

 

transients are the bread and butter of LOMCs and congrats for having the ears and system to notice!