The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

But where does the damage occur? Where the music is etched on the walls of the groove, or further below?

According to the article: "As the stylus tip ultimately develops a flathead screwdriver shape it in turn begins to damage vinyl grooves but the needed data to understand when that occurs is not readily available and is sometimes even considered confidential. "

If that's the case you would think the stylus just gets thinner and rides the bottom of the grooves doing the damage there, not where the music lies. I still wouldn't want it, but I do wonder if it will damage anything you would hear with a new stylus. My guess is most records with audible damage are from too high tracking and/or severely worn styli.

 

Well, I didn't see it specifically. Just because the stylus shape is worn/altered somewhat in a way that degrades and/or changes the original sound doesn't mean it will result in anymore wear to the grooves that occurs when the stylus is new. Especially if it's not a conical or elliptical shape and goes deep into the grooves. There are all different shapes and sizes of styli, whose effects on record wear vary somewhat.

So I still highly doubt that any excess wear would occur until at least over 1000 hours, but that's probably conservative even I think. Might be more like 1500-2000 hours for that to occur. I wouldn't recommend going more than about 1000 hours, but I think generally one is likely pretty safe to do so without fear of damaging or putting excess wear on their records.

 

Might not be the right place for this, but I know many here are familiar with the Jelco HS. I recognize this ebay seller from some imports they offer, but does anyone know if these are legit Jelco, or counterfeits?

Jelco HS-25 Rhodium G Cartridge Headshell, Made in Japan, 12.1 grams | eBay

 

OK guys. So I fired up the 1210G/O9CXSL last night for the first time. I went over the settings one more time. Setting the azimuth was a tad frustrating to say the least. I do have the tail end of the cartridge a skosh higher than the needle, so it might? not be super optimal. The speaker cables I'm using are a bit dark. They're older Kimber 8pr without the varistrand (smaller strands are better for higher frequencies) so I did keep this in mind when judging initially. First, man did you guys steer me in the right direction as far as the cartridge is concerned. I'm an Audio-Technica fan for life The voicing is exactly what I wanted. The mids have fallen back more into the soundstage, and that's a beautiful thing. My very first impression was how significant the noise floor dropped. The music is coming from a pretty impressive black background compared to the X2 and the Moonstone. I really didn't even know what to expect? This is one of the more impressive ah-ha moments I've had in quite sometime. Guys this has just put a bigger nail in the coffin for cd's Sorry I had to go there. I put an album on that I'm very familiar with that has a constant surface noise for whatever reason. Scarlatti piano music, and the noise was significantly quieter, it was obviously still there, but not at all audibly to the same degree, and like many of the albums I have that look like they've never been played, they were pretty much silent. This is a major deal guys. It's huge. The cart does seem a bit closed off. I'm not getting as much ambience that I know are in some of the recordings, but what I'm already hearing is VERY impressive to say the least. I have bass and high's This is another major deal. I have my subs turned damn near off, 4/6 on the crossover/hi-low as the rels can go south real fast when asking too much out of them with the Magnepans. I'm blown away with what I'm hearing and I feel it will get ridiculous after a have 20-30 hours? on the cart. Plus the settings you guys gave me for the pre-amp seem to be dead on. Not one issue no hum, pre-amp seems dead on, no perceivable issues with the azimuth (channel wise) it just sounds impressively good. This is without exaggeration the best I've ever heard my system. I feel like I can justify the cost of this rig (I'm not so sure about this) but music is all I have. I don't have TV, classical music is the best music on earth, and everything else to boot. One negative? is that the arm/lift does seem like an afterthought. It's far from the end of the world, but it does seem like the weak link. To add to that, the needle just raises enough off the surface of the record that it does require our full attention to LIFT the tonearm whenever we put it on the record, or are taking it off. First world problems. I'll probably call Crutchfield and cancel the exchange. The tonearm is not to speck? but it works just as intended. If I can get the azimuth right with one cart, I should be golden and I have vta up the wazoo I LOVE what I'm hearing. Thank you guys for all the help. I'm pretty blown away. Long post here Audio-Technica Technics Vinyl

 

I would still exchange it for another. That arm is bent/turned up.

Also, you can raise the up arm starting point to get it further up off the vinyl.

 

With the vta? I see that, but it does compound the slight ass up on the cart? I do hear you though.

 

No, not with the VTA. What you need to raise is the tonearm lift height. There is a screw behind the swing over part of the arm base. Loosening that screw will raise your up tonearm starting height without changing VTA.

 

It's good that the cartridge sounds good, when I first got my OC9xsl I ran it on my Technics for a short bit -it really is a fantastic cartridge.
If your arm is even just ever so slightly off (and it sure does seem like it) you just need to hang in there and replace the tt for a correct one.
#1 reason being that if the arm is rotated AT ALL then it changes the geometry all over the place and this is because of its 'S' shape -the S shape is in the horizontal plane and one twist one way or the other changes it's overall length as well as the height. So with the length being affected you are bound to have to do the cartridge alignment with a protractor with no ifs or butts -the supplied jig will not work as it is designed to be used with the arm's length, so if you change the length of the arm then you can't trust the jig for anything.
With the height affected you will have to adjust the lift lever (what the poster above was telling you) and the VTA adjustments will be limited in what they can accomplish with regards to getting the cartridge top level with the playing surface.
If you can get the cartridge top level (or maybe a wee bit tail down) you are good there.
If you have downloaded or purchased a protractor for alignment then use that to align the cartridge, azimuth is fairly important and should at minimum be set so that looking from the front the cartridge looks level left to right.
If you can achieve all three of those things then you can safely use the tt until the exchange can be made.

For crying out loud though, don't bail on the return/exchange because that would be a huge misstep considering you have a twisted/rotated arm, sure it can be fixed -but it shouldn't have to be fixed is the point. To fix it you would have to find a technician that has experience with adjusting tonearms and they would have to loosen the tonearm tube and rotate it to it's correct setting -and they would have to be able to torque the bolts correctly and be able to check all the geometry parameters to make sure it's at spec but you shouldn't have to do any of that.

Getting the cartridge aligned properly and the arm height down enough to get the cartridge top level (build up the platter with extra mats if you have to) should be your priority #1 because that spectacular cartridge deserves to be set up right and doing so will also ensure no unusual wear on it.

 

I only have the protractor that came with the hudson kit.

OK I haven't used a protractor. I used the guide to get 52mm from the needle to the mount. I did my damnedest to square the cart to the head-shell. Set the azimuth, and tried my best to verify that it looked on in the beginning, middle and end of the surface of an album. Set the tracking force and let her rip. I hear what you are saying 100% I can guarantee it's probably not dead on? Now you have me concerned and for good reason. Maybe I should park it till August? The entire album sounds consistent from what I'm hearing? Might not mean jack.

 

I’m pretty baffled as to why you are continuing to use a clearly mis-assembled turntable?

 

Crutchfield exchange would probably be resolved within like two days too. They’re so fast.

 

The table is back ordered till August.

 

Well my thought is that the entire assembly (tonearm) went into a jig, and luckily the cartridge mount and what mounts the arm to the table were square? I'll park the system till fall as it will most likely be too hot in the house anytime now.

 

if they’ll let you keep yours until August I’d go that route.

 

Think I would've been inclined to just return it after seeing the problem and get one someplace else that has stock, unless you got some super deal so want to stay with Crutchfield. In any case, good luck, but I would definitely not keep this one with the defective arm, that detracts a lot from the value and makes usage more cumbersome and imprecise.

 

Yeah, like I said if the arm is out (and we all seem to agree that it is) you can't trust that guide.
If you can get a protractor (printed or purchased) that works off the spindle of the platter and has two null points to line up to -and IF you can align the tip to those two points then you are good to go there. At least double check the guides use with a protractor.
If you can get past that hurdle then go on to the height and azimuth, etc.

It may not be as crazy out as I think, the more I think about it the more I think the arm length may be OK -but the fact remains that it is rotated and this would have some kind of strange torsional effect on play.

 

Yes I'm keeping this till they come into stock. Listening to it right now. Bach....man this sounds very good. I haven't hardly ran the system in three months. It can take several consecutive days to get the bass up to snuff

 

I'll definitely return it. I'm more concerned for the record surface You have very good points and I'm taking what you are saying as best overall advice.

 

After thinking over the rotation of the arm I don't think it's length could be that much affected -so you mostly half to worry about the other stuff.

Good luck with the next one and maybe you can find one elsewhere and just return this one.

 

I'm not OCD, in fact pretty laid back about gear in general, but there's no way I could sit and relax listening to that TT with its tonearm twisted like that. It would drive me nuts. I'd get a refund and pick up another, fully functioning one somewhere else.

 

Why can't they just order an new arm?

 

Have you replaced an arm on the 1200G? It's not something a novice should be doing.
Who should pay to have the new arm that "they" ordered installed?

 

I personally replaced my arm with an SME 309, but have Crutchfield do the work. BTW, its 3 screws & a ground wire.

 

I don't love the idea, but if Crutchfield was going to let me use the defective table until a replacement is available, I would do it. Practice on the defective table with setup and listening, then just transfer the cartridge/headshell to the new one and set it up with what you have learned.

The best idea is if you can get one in stock elsewhere, I would get a refund and move on.

@DaveWin: You MUST return that defective table. There should never be a thought to not.

Also, did you shim the cartridge to correct the VTA, or are you just running very tail up? I would not want to run a Microline stylus too out of spec.