The Ultimate Black Sabbath Creative Sounds Compact Disc Thread

There is confusion about the mastering of some Black Sabbath Creative Sounds CDs. What I intend to do in this thread is for myself and others to post matrix information from CDs along with peak levels in order to connect the dots of which masterings exist on which discs.

Some notable forum members like Roland (rjstauber) have a Creative Sounds CD among their favorite Black Sabbath CD masterings. While the recent Deluxe Editions and 1986 Castle CDs are among the most coveted CDs to own, in this thread we will try to provide information about the Creative Sounds CDs that may be a best option for CD or a more economical choice than some of the 1986 Castle CDs that sometimes cost ten times the amount of a Creative Sounds CD.

The issue of pre-emphasis on Creative Sounds CDs can be confusing. 1986 Castle CDs also contain pre-emphasis. Some forum members have suspected that some 1986 Castle CDs and some Creative Sounds CD share the same mastering. Hopefully, with greater discussion of Creative Sounds CDs in particular, we can figure out which Creative Sounds CDs contain pre-emphasis and which ones do not. If the peak levels of a Creative Sounds CD matches the peak levels of a 1986 Castle CD, chances are that they contain the same mastering. Pre-emphasis does affect the peak levels of a mastering, so that is why this issue can be difficult to nail down. Further confusing the issue is the fact that the Creative Sounds CDs sometimes jumble the original album track listing. Sometimes the last two tracks are reversed in order.

My sources for this information are my own collection of Creative Sounds CDs and a few threads that discuss Black Sabbath CDs. There is a great deal of information on the forum about the Creative Sounds CDs, but it is spread out on many different pages of many different threads. From this forum, my sources and good sources for you to do additional reading and discussion about the subject of Creative Sounds CDs are:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...ersions-of-black-sabbath-albums-part2.262947/
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/black-sabbath-paranoid-cd-sound-comparisons.86247/
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/pre-emphasis-list.121188/
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/black-sabbath-deluxe-editions-out-6-29-09-part-2.213745/

I will maintain a list of matrix numbers, peak levels, and matrix information. Note that Creative Sounds released the Vol. 4 album with a different title: Children of the Grave.

Black Sabbath Creative Sounds CDs

Black Sabbath
No peak level information yet acquired.

Paranoid
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>
Peak levels: 100/100/92/93.3/100/100/100/78.0

Master Of Reality
No peak level information yet acquired.

Children Of The Grave
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112
Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]
Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
No peak level information yet acquired.

Sabotage
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103
Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3

 

Right on.

Those were the CD's I got in the 80's. I also found it curious why the flip flopping of the last two tracks. But in some cases, I liked their running order better (ie: Sabatoge).

 

Updated with Black Sabbath information.

Black Sabbath
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103
Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8

Paranoid
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>
Peak levels: 100/100/92/93.3/100/100/100/78.0

Master Of Reality
No peak level information yet acquired.

Children Of The Grave
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112
Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]
Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
No peak level information yet acquired.

We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
No peak level information yet acquired.

Sabotage
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103
Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3

Greatest Hits
No peak level information yet acquired.

Live At Last
No peak level information yet acquired.

 

I should try and get motivated and post my info. I have the 60xx and 60xx-2 discs for them all. Sometimes they are the same as each other, sometimes not.

None of them are the same as any '86 Castle CD.

 

Meh, here's one set:

Paranoid:

6007, red Holland, "CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @" 98.1 96.9 88.0 90.6 97.1 96.7 97.1 75.3
6007-2: 449806-2 (on disc), Germany black, "449806-2" 100 100 92.0 93.3 100 100 100 78.0

The matrix code is in quotes. I'm not convinced these are different masterings. My notes say "level shifted?" because they sound very similar, if not identical.

 

Greatest Hits
Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01
Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2

 

Roland will report peak levels for his CS holy grail of the debut.

 

For this list, I'm omitting the exterior artwork information, catalog numbers, and UPC information for now for the sake of simplicity. Feel free to post this information in the thread, however.

Disc Information:

Black Sabbath
449805-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103
Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8

Paranoid
449806-2, Germany, black
Matrix: 449806-2
Peak levels: 100/100/92.0/93.3/100/100/100/78.0

6007-2
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>
Peak levels: 100/100/92/93.3/100/100/100/78.0

6007, red Holland
Matrix: CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @
Peak levels: 98.1/96.9/88.0/90.6/97.1/96.7/97.1/75.3

Master Of Reality
No peak level information yet acquired.

Children Of The Grave
6011-2
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112
Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

449807-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]
Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
No peak level information yet acquired.

We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
No peak level information yet acquired.

Sabotage
449802-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103
Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3

Greatest Hits
Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01
Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2

Live At Last
No peak level information yet acquired.

 

Added another copy of Black Sabbath.

Disc Information:

Black Sabbath
449805-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103
Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8

Matrix: INTER SERVICE PRESSE DIGIP 6006
Peak levels: 99.3/87.2/83.1/85.2/85.8

Paranoid
449806-2, Germany, black
Matrix: 449806-2
Peak levels: 100/100/92.0/93.3/100/100/100/78.0

6007-2
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>
Peak levels: 100/100/92/93.3/100/100/100/78.0

6007, red Holland
Matrix: CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @
Peak levels: 98.1/96.9/88.0/90.6/97.1/96.7/97.1/75.3

Master Of Reality
No peak level information yet acquired.

Children Of The Grave
6011-2
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112
Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

449807-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]
Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
No peak level information yet acquired.

We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
No peak level information yet acquired.

Sabotage
449802-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103
Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3

Greatest Hits
Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01
Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2

Live At Last
No peak level information yet acquired.

 

^^^ Those look to be different. My two are the same mastering:

Black Sabbath:

6006: red USA, "W. O. # H9556-1", "11518AZ", "6006"

6006-2 black Power Sound 2001 (no country of manufacture), "ADFL 02VH4<530>", "8413", "IFPI DG22", "6006-2"

same mastering for these both, and sounds very good: 100.0 89.8 85.0 92.3 89.8

 

Paranoid, similar to what you have:

6007, red Holland, "CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @" 98.1 96.9 88.0 90.6 97.1 96.7 97.1 75.3

6007-2: 449806-2 (on disc), Germany black, "449806-2" 100 100 92.0 93.3 100 100 100 78.0
level shifted?

 

Similar because I used your levels from your earlier post.

 

Are these map coordinates or are y'all talking about music.

 

I agree that it sounds good. I probably like it better than the Deluxe. The added bass on the Deluxe is snazzy and nice, but it seems from my initial listens that Ozzy's voice sounds better on the CS.

The 99.3/87.2/83.1/85.2/85.8 is Roland's copy that he has discussed since 2006 about editing with the 1986 Castle or other rare Vertigo or whatever. He also like the Deluxe, however.

 

Disc Information:

Black Sabbath

Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8
For the following 3 discs:

449805-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103

6006, USA, red
Matrix: W. O. # H9556-1 11518AZ 6006

6006-2, Power Sound 2001, black
Matrix: ADFL 02VH4<530> 8413 IFPI DG22 6006-2


Peak levels: 99.3/87.2/83.1/85.2/85.8
For the following disc:

Matrix: INTER SERVICE PRESSE DIGIP 6006

Paranoid

Peak levels: 100/100/92.0/93.3/100/100/100/78.0
For the following 2 discs:

449806-2, Germany, black
Matrix: 449806-2

6007-2
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>

Peak levels: 98.1/96.9/88.0/90.6/97.1/96.7/97.1/75.3
For the following disc:

6007, red Holland
Matrix: CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @

Master Of Reality
No peak level information yet acquired.

Children Of The Grave

Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
For the following disc:

6011-2
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112

Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
For the following disc:
449807-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
No peak level information yet acquired.

We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
No peak level information yet acquired.

Sabotage

Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
For the following disc:

449802-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103

Greatest Hits

Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2
For the following disc:

Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01

Live At Last
No peak level information yet acquired.

 

Man, I posted Paranoid twice!

OK, here's a few more:

MoR:

6004, black, USA, "SRC-01 NELCD6004"
92.0 81.3 94.3 47.3 61.9 93.2 43.6 89.8 98.6

6004-2 (no country of manufacture), Power Sound 2001 (CS on disc), "PS-6004-2NS", "3112697", "IFPI DG22"
74.4 77.9 40.5 81.6 47.2 88.9 84.1 66.

 

Children of the Grave, which is Vol 4: =>

6011 USA, "manufactured by American Helix"
66.9 50.5 69.8 39.3 62.1 73.5 72.4 60.4 56.2 60.5 62.0

6011-2 Germany, "PILZ CD"
65.4 49.4 68.3 38.5 60.8 71.9 70.9 59.1 55.0 59.1 60.7
same mastering, just level shifted? Sounds pretty good.

 

Sounds pretty good? Possibly, but with my own comparison of 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7 (which needs deemphasis) and 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7 (which does not need deemphasis), the former beat the latter in a CS Sabbath-off.

 

Updated with Master of Reality and Children of the Grave information.

Disc Information:

Black Sabbath

Peak levels: 100/89.8/85/92.3/89.8
For the following 3 discs:

449805-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449805-2 103

6006, USA, red
Matrix: W. O. # H9556-1 11518AZ 6006

6006-2, Power Sound 2001, black
Matrix: ADFL 02VH4<530> 8413 IFPI DG22 6006-2


Peak levels: 99.3/87.2/83.1/85.2/85.8
For the following disc:

Matrix: INTER SERVICE PRESSE DIGIP 6006

Paranoid

Peak levels: 100/100/92.0/93.3/100/100/100/78.0
For the following 2 discs:

449806-2, Germany, black
Matrix: 449806-2

6007-2
Matrix: Made In Israel PS-6007-2 A2 <3110456>

Peak levels: 98.1/96.9/88.0/90.6/97.1/96.7/97.1/75.3
For the following disc:

6007, Holland, red
Matrix: CDM CA ZZ 01/6007 01 @

Master Of Reality

Peak levels: 92/81.3/94.3/47.3/61.9/93.2/43.6/89.8/98.6
For the following disc:

6004, USA, black
Matrix: SRC-01 NELCD6004

Peak levels: 74.4/77.9/40.5/81.6/47.2/88.9/84.1/66
For the following disc:

6004-2
Matrix: PS-6004-2NS 3112697 IFPI DG22

Children Of The Grave

Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
For the following disc:

6011-2
Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112

Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7
For the following 2 discs:

449807-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A]

6011-2, Germany
Matrix: PILZ CD

Peak levels: 66.9/50.5/69.8/39.3/62.1/73.5/72.4/60.4/56.2/60.5/62.0
For the following disc:

6011, USA
Matrix: manufactured by American Helix

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
No peak level information yet acquired.

We Sold Our Soul For Rock 'n Roll
No peak level information yet acquired.

Sabotage

Peak levels: 86.3/37.3/91.6/91.2/87/59.3/96.4/84.3
For the following disc:

449802-2, Germany, black
Matrix: PILZ CD 449802-2 103

Greatest Hits

Peak levels: 99.2/81.4/86.7/99.2/99.2/99.2/92.0/61.8/97.8/99.2
For the following disc:

Matrix: CSL/EMS 6002 SRC=01

Live At Last
No peak level information yet acquired.

 

Creative sounds, Castle, Vertigo. Why are Sabbaths back-catalog so weird? c'mon three different labels realeasing sabbath-stuff in the 80's alone.

 

You forgot Warner. Four labels in the 80's releasing the stuff.

Of course, Sabbath only wish they could have stopped those Creative Sounds releases.

 

As a long time Sabs fan, I need to know.

How did Creative Sounds ever get the CD rights to Black Sabbath's material? I seem to remember their Sabbath releases were common cut-out bin fodder a few years back, and their CD covers always seemed to have a cheap, pirated looking quality to them. I already owned WB copies so I never gave them a 2nd look until I finally broke down and bought a copy of Black Sabbath-Live At Last that was on Creative Sounds.

I have always wondered about this and it seems like one of you folks might have the answer so I'm askin'...

 

It might have something to do with NEMS going out of business in 1983. Also, in the Sabbath Album by Album thread, we discussed bad business decisions that the band made with their manager Patrick Meehan. The answer may rest with those issues.

 

My first guess was that it was possibly somehow Patrick Meehan related. And yes, these guys really needed proper legal advice back in the day. Too bad that they didn't.

 

I have a Creative Sounds MoR, PILZ with the same peaks as one of the MoRs listed above:

6004-2
449803-2 on disk

Matrix: PILZ CD 449803-2 103
74.4/77.9/40.5/81.6/47.2/88.9/84.1/66.9